Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated.

my day, ruined.

Shh, Nicole, you're giving it away!

Lynn, Danielle, etc. -- yeah, there are plenty of cheap shots on this thread and I've delivered a few. But what it all boils down to for a lot of us is this -- we just don't find his music interesting in the slightest, and in some cases we just outright hate it. This has nothing to do with jealousy over his success or how much he sells or anything like that, and I have to say I think it's a bit sad that you're always constantly resorting to that argument, or so it seems. You should be arguing from the strength of whether or not you like the music first and foremost. My own passion for the groups I love -- My Bloody Valentine, the Walkabouts and so forth -- is just as strong as yours is for DMB, I've no doubt of it. But trying to argue that we should like DMB because of their sales or the size of their fanbase is like arguing we should all like McDonald's because they're the biggest in the business. Do you apply that line of thinking to the rest of your life? I'm guessing not.

The other thing that's strange -- and a bit amusing -- is that you're coming in here to defend DMB (not a problem there), shocked by the idea that people might disagree with you (that IS a problem), demanding in some cases that we all leave you alone with our opinions (have we been invading DMB fan boards or something? you all came here, and you didn't have to post or read anything!) and basically doing nothing to convince us of anything else other than the fact that you really really like DMB. Which is great. I don't, neither do a lot of other people here, and we don't have to change our minds because you say so. I'm not expecting to change YOUR mind with my thoughts! That would be pointless.

And if you say, "But if you just listen to the music!" Well, I have, I still remember when I got a copy of Under the Table to review almost ten years ago at the paper I was doing music reviewing for at the time. Didn't like it then, everything I've heard from him since has been to my ears anonymous, boring and dull. I'm sure everyone else here who has expressed similar opinions has had similar experiences. Choosing to write off our own encounters with his music as being nothing but close-minded jealousy or annoyance would be just the same as if we said -- in all seriousness, regardless of whatever frat-guy/lawyer jokes have been made -- that you only listen to DMB because they were successful, because they had a huge fanbase, as opposed to whether or not you actually enjoyed the music.

If you want to take the random jokes (and I'm not pretending everything here has been brilliant, certainly not from me) in all seriousness and get on your high horse about it every time, well, that's your worry and not ours. The fact that we haven't seen an ounce of humor from your end of things unfortunately just makes you all seem like you're so insistent or incredulous about others not being fans that you're almost, well, comical -- and that's why my crack about being 'insecure,' in that those who speak the loudest often seem to be hiding something.

And there you go.

--I appreciate the post Ned, points well made.

No, because of abject ennui. The music of the Dave Matthews Band bores me to absolute tears. Sorry, but it does. If you bothered to expand your horizons a bit more, you'd hear how yawnsome and ordinary their music quite irrefutably is.

Yer welcome, Danielle. Personally I think humor about my favorite bands is one of the things that keeps them human and keeps my own thoughts from being too full of themselves, but that is me. ;-) Stick around the boards, opinionated people always welcome. As Alex in NYC notes far above, he came here in very similar circumstances.

With all due respect, Allison, it seems kind of disingenuous of you to accuse other people of being haters just because they don't like one band when earlier you wrote this: "First of all, this is REAL music. Besides underground stuff, what bands actually make music that is worth listening to?" So you basically hate all popular music except for DMB, and then you accuse people of being haters just because they don't like DMB?

-PS. teletubbies kick ass.

--Awwww thanks. Apology accepted.

*shrug* Why do we not like anything? You've heard bands that just bore you, right? They don't do anything for you, they just seem pretty lazy and dull? That's about how I feel about DMB, everything I've heard from them seems really undramatic, unexciting, bland. I can't put it any more plainly than that, there's no excitement, no beauty, no theatricality, no innovation, for me at least.

Telling me they're the greatest thing ever, well, that's opinion. Telling me that it's "REAL music" and implying that I don't like them means I don't like music (real or not), that's an attitude I admit hating.

I haven't seen a live performance of them, no. I can't say I will either -- I have bills to pay, things to save for, and other shows I would want to see more than them. If I can't get any excitement from their music in studio, or what live material I've heard -- and I've heard enough over time, from various sources -- then I don't see any reason to pursue it further. Should someone play a DVD of theirs at me one day, I'll take note of it, but there are other DVDs I'd rather buy. Even if I did hear something that way, though, there's no guarantee that I'd change my mind any more on the matter.

Sure, I've gone through similar experiences like yours, I think we all have -- hearing something that initially just grates or annoys but eventually wins you over. I think that's natural, healthy even. But like I said above, I've gone on for ten years now with his music meaning nothing to me, and the older I get the more I want to concentrate on listening to other things that do capture my interest, that stir my soul and send more, instead of trying to spend time and/or money dealing with something that hasn't worked for me at all. That, I think, is just part of being human.

Well, my fave all time band ever is pretty obscure in terms of the mainstream -- My Bloody Valentine, an Irish/English group from the mid eighties through the early nineties. Fave album, fave song, fave concert, all them down the line. Second fave band is the Chameleons, a Manchester band from the eighties who recently reunited and are hopefully still together though I've been hearing some odd news. In terms of more famous acts, I'd name all sorts of characters, but I'm a product of my time in many ways, so up near the top would be Depeche Mode, the Cure, New Order (and Joy Division for sure), the Pet Shop Boys, the Smiths, Prince and many others. And definitely the Smashing Pumpkins, much to everyone's annoyance around here. ;-) Then there's other obscure bands like the Walkabouts, Disco Inferno, Marc Almond's solo material (at least in the States), older bands like T. Rex, older singers like Scott Walker and David Bowie, etc. etc. Newer things, I don't have too many bands per se I obsess over as much, but that list can go on too -- very much enjoy Timbaland and Missy Elliott as producers and often performers, though. I sorta more appreciate the Neptunes now as producers but I still think they're astonishingly overrated. Then there's the more obscure drone stuff and random newer electronic acts and unknown goth things and random noise projects from New Zealand and my friends with bands like Celesteville and the Minor Thirds and Lance Lockarm and the International Telepaths and...

Ned, why do I feel like you're our camp counselor all of a sudden? ;)

;-) My friend, think of it this way -- isn't it better to talk than insult? :-)

I'm a Dave Matthews Band fan and I cant stand Hootie. All of you that are dissing Dave and his band, obviously haven't given him a chance. Actually try to listen to them then you may discover that they aren't bad. Dont judge them without knowing what they are all about. They are making millions and usually boring music doesn't do that. The reason for that is because they are great musicians. I love all kinds of music so dont even try judging the fans either. You dont know them or me you have no right to say stuff about us. Sure some of you may be offended about his one line "hike up your skirt a little more and show the world to me" come on its not nearly as bad as half the rap that is played twice or sometimes 3 times as much as what Dave gets played on the radio.

1. As mentioned above, there are many, many different topics on this board, and to imagine this thread as representative of the entire board, and everyone who posts here is, though maybe an easy mistake to make, stil a mistake.

2. This board is populated by many, many different people. Some of them are well-known and well-regarded musicians, and others are w-k and w-r writers. Some people on this board write for nationally-distributed periodicals, and some have even published their own books. Some here are probably preparing to celebrate the purchase of their 10,000th CD, so it is wise to know who you are talking to before making accusations.

3. If you want to convince us to love any band at all, it is better to state what you like about the group, and it helps to be very specific. Name particular songs, particular moments in songs, and why they make you happy.

4. Its good to be aware of the nature of your language. To say a band is "the best" is to implicate other bands as somehow being worse, even ones you have not heard. On the other hand, to say you like a particular band is quite different.

5. Many on this board are open to pop music, even the "fake" stuff. Why? Well, here is an example: I like some Rap, but I am unimpressed by the music of 50 Cent. However, millions do love his music, and I tend to wonder why. Since I am actually curious, I do my best to hear his music, and try to understand why anyone would like it. Sometimes when I go through this process, my mind is changed (as it was in the case of Aaliyah). In other cases, I continue to dislike the particular music (I cant get past 50s monotone, and his mealy-mouthed delivery, and his productions seems uninspired), but I understand why someone else would like it (some of those tracks could be fun to hear in a club, and his image probably plays an important role as well). Coming to terms is an important process of making opionions and expressing them. If you find yourself asking "why would anyone in their right mind listen to this?", you have to do research and answer that question first before dismissing the music.
(id would actually be interested to see some of the prime DMB hatahs on this board do that ;-)
6. Lastly, the idea of a band or musician being "real" or "fake" does not hold much sway here. What makes an artist "fake" or "real"?
- Clothing? But both Britney and DM are aware of what they are wearing, and what image they are trying to project, and that self-awareness makes it hard to say one is more "real" than the other (this goes for Pavement too ya'll). Our culture certainly has definitions about what looking "real" is, but, if you try to fit these definitions self-consciously, couldn't that make you "fake"?
- Is an artist singing his or her own songs more "real" than an artist who doesnt? Before the advent of rock, it was very common for artists to sing or play the songs of others. Is Miles Davis fake? Talentless? Whatever you think of his music, it did impact the DMB. He is one of the inventors of fusion, meaning one of the first to combine jazz, rock and pop, which is what the DMB does, in their own way.
- If it is more "real" to be a great technical player", well, not all of the best artists were or are great technical players. To use Miles Davis as an example again, he is not considered, by many jazz aficionados, to be one of the great technical trumpeters. He could not play very quickly compared to many, and he was weak with higher notes. He used his technique, however, to great adavantage, and some of his best and most innovative music came out of his acceptance of his limitations. He knew he couldnt play fast like Dizzy Gillespie, so he focused on making music suited to his style. So again, technique is not everything, the results are more important. Additionally, not all of the best music is made with intruments. Electronic music, in its various forms, has been around since least the 50s, and electronic instruments have been around since the turn of the century. Many predate the electric guitar, so to say that they are "fake", or that the music made with them is "fake" sounds odd to those who are aware of this history. Each style of electronic music, whether it is Musique Concrete, or Acid House, has its own history, its own reasons for existing, and, most importantly, its own possibility of pleasing ears, of meaing something, of even, dare I say, changing lives, even in the same way that DMB does. Its all a matter of coming to terms. Additionally, every piece of music that has been recorded has been affected by technology. Even if I were to do an album of acoustic guitar and singing (more "real", right?), the sound of the album, and therefore how you perceive it, will be affected by what microphones I use, and what medium the music was placed on (tape, my computer, etc.). Rock bands, for years, have been, for the most part, spending ages in the studio, cutting and splicing, tweaking and filtering, to hone their product, and this part of the process is just as important as the songs and performances. Rock music, in the sudio at least, is usually just as produced and manufactured as pop music. At the end of the process, it sounds like 4 or 5 people were in a room playing music together at the same time, but this is usaully not the case, especially when the band is rich and famous and can afford to take their time.

Nobody is perfect, and it is a challenge to discuss any topic with the ideals listed above constantly in mind...

I am going to rest and then get on to my feelings RE DMB...