SIMON REYNOLDS DISCUSSES CURRENT DANCE MUSIC IN TODAY'S NY TIMES

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I mean, i suppose you could say he's talking about house music.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Sunday, 23 January 2005 08:52 (nineteen years ago) link

more popular than kompakt, matos.

in shelf-life terms, hugely arguable--Kompakt both preceded and outlasted electroclash, has a growing audience whereas e-c has a shinking one, etc. (neither are all that big, obv., even in dance-music terms.)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Here's some other threads either directly or tangentially concerned with the techno-into-rock/metal question:

Where electronic music is right now in America...

Metal Techno, or Techno Metal

Ideas to Revitalize Modern Metal?

Metal techno: the worst genre ever?

thee music mole, Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:03 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost

perhaps. far be it for me to stick up for electroclash (esp. since i was listening to kompakt type stuff in 2001-2002), but I just don't see kompakt having the "cultural impact" (so nebulous I know) that ec did. tho sales-wise, they're probably similar. there's no kompakt fischerspooner (yet).

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Here's some other threads either directly or tangentially concerned with electronic rock and metal:

Where electronic music is right now in America...

Metal Techno, or Techno Metal

Ideas to Revitalize Modern Metal?

Metal techno: the worst genre ever?

thee music mole, Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:06 (nineteen years ago) link

oops sorry bout dat double post

thee music mole, Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:09 (nineteen years ago) link

forget Fischerspooner, who are still more famous for signing a contract than making music; the real e-c star is Peaches, and I think her second album kinda tanked, didn't it? I'm not denying e-c's cultural impact--it precipitated and rode the wave of retro-'80s-dom, and my general distaste for the results of that impact (fashion mullets et al), as well as the stuff as music, surely colors my view here. I think, though, that it was too short-lived a phenomenon to worry over in a piece like Simon's--maybe two or even one year ago that wouldn't have been the case, but right now I can see where he thought it would be pointless to bring up.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:09 (nineteen years ago) link

forget Fischerspooner, who are still more famous for signing a contract than making music

haha that's the most r*****t thing I've written in a while, innit?

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:13 (nineteen years ago) link

fischerspooner however, is not 100% shite like Peaches.

Reviewer: Sir Potomus (Washington, DC) - See all my reviews (ex machina), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Aren't the Scissor Sisters the big electroclash success story (in the UK, at least)?

fatfreddy, Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:18 (nineteen years ago) link

fischerspooner however, is not 100% shite like Peaches.

oh no, totally agreed on that. but in terms of star appeal, she's really the only one out of that batch that counts.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Aren't the Scissor Sisters the big electroclash success story (in the UK, at least)?

how are they electroclash? they sound like Elton John.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Doesn't this also have to do with the fact that most dance music works best on the dance floor instead of in the livingroom? Except maybe LCD Soundsystem, Kompakt,...

stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:45 (nineteen years ago) link

ilm standard believer response=listen as a dancer etc

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:49 (nineteen years ago) link

scissor sisters played at the 2nd electroclash festival.

phil-two (phil-two), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:51 (nineteen years ago) link

as regards electroclash, I reiterate my "it gave dance its ego back" comments, which today seem so much bigger than back in 02 or 03

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:54 (nineteen years ago) link

electroclash is going to end up being seen as the movement that saved dance. I keep saying we're Europeans now, but it's true, dancewise. I am drunk but I feel this is important.

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:58 (nineteen years ago) link

electroclash is going to end up being seen as the movement that saved dance.

I don't know about England, but it's regarded pretty much over here.

stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 23 January 2005 10:06 (nineteen years ago) link

N the first months of 2005, two of electronic dance music's biggest bands will release what are generally referred to as long-awaited albums

And he fails to mention New Order anywhere in the entire article? Compares LCD Soundsystem to PJ Harvey & Pavement? I'm sure people have burned in hell for less.

Bimble... (Bimble...), Sunday, 23 January 2005 10:16 (nineteen years ago) link

i remain agnostic about the idea of a Next Big Thing

Stevem On X (blueski), Sunday, 23 January 2005 12:02 (nineteen years ago) link

there's no kompakt fischerspooner (yet)

Rex the Dog!

JoB (JoB), Sunday, 23 January 2005 12:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Ronan is right.

I thought the article was much better than most of the articles on this topic have been, though as per usual at times the "signs of life" can seem to take on a disproportionate level of importance. The Tiefschwarz mention is alright because Tiefschwarz are flagbearers for what is currently the biggest sound in dance music, but I would have considered "breakcore" to be marginal at best. Actually I'm glad that he grouped Tiefschwarz and LCD Soundsystem together because I think it's useful to compare the two groups' similarities and differences.

Although had he actually talked about electroclash it might have been pertinent to note (and this is where Ronan's point comes in) how Tiefschwarz take the electro framework and reinvest it with a ravey actual-dance-music energy (hence electroclash having saved dance music while still being "over" - it's like a "vanishing mediator", or is that vanishing antithesis?).

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 23 January 2005 13:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Would it ruin the joke if you explained it to me?

I'm guessing it's a response to jaymc's comment.

tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Sunday, 23 January 2005 13:37 (nineteen years ago) link

electroclash is going to end up being seen as the movement that saved dance. I keep saying we're Europeans now, but it's true, dancewise

Ronan totally OTM.

That's why this

In fact, some North American D.J.'s and producers like Richie Hawtin have moved to Germany because the climate for electronic music is more supportive

is basically the whole story. Maybe Simon needs to move to Cologne? ;)
Said it in another thread some time ago but dance here is seeing an influx of young people. And this year Dance Valley is probably going to become a three-day festival, so in rockspeak were actually getting into 1969/ the Woodstock phase. :) Now where are The Stooges?

Omar (Omar), Sunday, 23 January 2005 13:48 (nineteen years ago) link

i remain truly baffled by reynolds' commitment to the most cliched narrative of rock's development as template for all musical forms

bugged out, Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:00 (nineteen years ago) link

the last sentence of the article is what baffles me.

and disco nihilist otm.

it's tricky (disco stu), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link

ilm standard believer response=listen as a dancer etc

If you're thinking about the mainstream (in the US) and why dance is not as popular (anymore), then you have to look at how the public generally tends to listen/view artists: They want a *face* something which isn't as prevalent in dance.

stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Dig Your Own Hole was a top-ten album, so yes.

actually, DYOH debuted at no. 14 and went gold half a year later. Not bad at all, but the "teeming throngs" line feels a bit facetious, especially since they've released two albums since then have each done worse than that.

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:15 (nineteen years ago) link

chem bros have always been about the rock kids anyway

it's tricky (disco stu), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:27 (nineteen years ago) link

your line, pal, not mine

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Simon's actually

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:47 (nineteen years ago) link

ah--I was responding to your inquiry more than the article. got it.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:48 (nineteen years ago) link

anyhow, I think it's obvious that teeming throngs is an exaggerated image for what we're talking about. (and what Simon is, and that it's deliberate hyperbole.)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:51 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm guessing it's a response to jaymc's comment.

She's right. (Google "lenny bruce," "vaughn meader" and "kennedy" together to get a fuller explanation.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 23 January 2005 16:16 (nineteen years ago) link

even the artists that did thrive in the "heyday" of american acceptance of dance music didn't exactly enthrall listeners album-wise... most people were just listening to the singles over and over again, with perhaps the exception of fatboy slim and a few of the poppier one hit wonder types

yeah, when were prodigy and fatboy slim hip on the real dancefloors? never. its all about the singles and compilation mix albums in the REAL danceculture. the culture that brings money to the table, the 'kids'

They aren't waiting on a new Daft Punk either, they just want Dave Clarke to put out a new mix album.

Rizz (Rizz), Sunday, 23 January 2005 16:48 (nineteen years ago) link

This reminds me of a panel that I saw at CMJ this year about the state of dance music. Tricia Romano was the moderator, Tommy Sunshine was the most vocal panelist. Both of them were fairly reasonable, but the general thrust of the discussion was essentially "whiiiine, the kind of dance music/dance music experience that I like isn't popular in the US, whiiiine" while willfully ignoring or dismissing any other kind of dance music that IS popular in the US. Just maddeningly elitist! Britney Spears has a bunch of dance hits and those songs are huge. How is "Toxic" not a dance song? It makes a lot more people want to dance than fucking Tiefschwarz and the Kompakt gang ever will. A lot of cheesy danceclubs do okay - why is that illegitimate? Hip hop clubs are obvs doing well. It's ridiculous to expect a huge number of people to get excited about a sort of club culture that is irrelevant to their lifestyle and native pop culture. You like the clubs and dance music in Europe? That's cool. But don't expect it to translate in America and more than you might expect any other regional dance culture from any other part of the world to get huge in America.

Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link

It's funny how I have no difficulty finding a lot of great dance-pop music for my site, but guys like Reynolds et al would never deign to consider that "serious" dance music. Like, why isn't he talking about USE? That seems more like the future of the kind of music that he favors than anything else. Fuck purity and skinny guys with computers and turntables, people respond to a big fuck-off party band a la Parliament/Funkadelic.

Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:19 (nineteen years ago) link

matthew OTM.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link

people respond to a big fuck-off party band a la Parliament/Funkadelic

Or Kiss?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:50 (nineteen years ago) link

This thread lacks a picture of Moby.
http://www.mute.de/artists/bilder/moby/02/5.jpg

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I want to take the Bride's sword and cut him off at the feet.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

this thread is ripe to be a 10-15 minute funkrockgroove

Rizz (Rizz), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost

Screw that, we're talking about dancing and having fun, and that's NOT Moby these days. What we need is a picture of Altern 8:

http://www.trancentral.ru/pix00/10_misc/altern8.jpg

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 23 January 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Moby likes to dance! Moby likes to have fun!

http://www.yegor.com/Music/moby-7.jpg

see? Lookee!

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The fact is that dance music failed to produce pop hits the same way hip-hop did/does.

In the UK in the 90s there were dance #1s coming out on a fucking conveyer belt. The big problem is that most of them were rubbish.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 23 January 2005 18:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Moby's new album is also the most innocuous, uninspired, virtually UNDANCEABLE piece of shite I've heard in a long time.

Blightersrock (Da ve Segal), Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link

I rarely, if ever, say this, but Perpetua totally OTM.

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link

er isnt this thread just split dirwectly on US and European* lines? i think both sides have totally different ideas of what "dance music" is, and siad "dance music" has had totally different trajectories either side of the pond

*or is it Rest of World?

ambrose (ambrose), Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:52 (nineteen years ago) link

well yeah, but this thread is about an article in the NYT, one of the most prominent papers in the US.

hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:54 (nineteen years ago) link

No, the Americans are just being disingenuous. In the pedantic sense, all sorts of music are dance music, but in the world of music genres, "dance" refers to a specific set of musics and everyone knows what they are.

bugged out, Sunday, 23 January 2005 19:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Simon Reynolds is a very good DJ. I have to go back and read this article this evening.

youn, Tuesday, 22 November 2005 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link

what do you think you're doing ?

blunt (blunt), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 21:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Mardi Gras comes from FRANCE and developed into the holiday it has in America specifically because of black people and black culture. Look it up.

Good times.

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 05:10 (eighteen years ago) link

three months pass...
Really. Once was enough.

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:33 (eighteen years ago) link

oop, shouldn't have deleted the whole post

Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:36 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...

WAHT IS DAHANCE MUSIK MADE?

gershy, Sunday, 16 September 2007 02:50 (sixteen years ago) link

mayahoo, mayahee, mayaha, mayahaha

hstencil, Sunday, 16 September 2007 04:11 (sixteen years ago) link


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