This Just In: Rolling UK News Thread

kinda ignoring the realities of the ways in which and the rate at which we communicate nowadays. Rolling news no longer monopolises the arbitration of initial perceptions and because people have access to so much info before it can be verified/reported, it's pretty much the lesser of two evils by default. Plus I think you're underestimating the ability of people to change their minds when face with new information

i'm not ignoring realities. i'm criticising them. the lesser of two evils is still toxic bullshit that we could choose not to cooperate with/assist.

So I live 1km from this. Helicopters been around. Really dreading the next few days.

not to validate this thread too much just yet, but if the rolling news cycle is how it goes then it's important to have people involving themselves in that but noting that e.g. contrary to bbc opinion, clean-shaven afro-caribbean men wearing high street clothing can't reasonably be described as "muslim looking".

CNN affiliate ITN aired a video showing a man holding a meat cleaver and saying, "we swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you."

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/22/article-2329089-19F062A4000005DC-917_634x510.jpg

the lesser of two evils is still toxic bullshit that we could choose not to cooperate with/assist.

How true is that though? I came across the story via twitter so naturally much of what I saw initially was hyperbolic and contradictory.

In the face of that is it not important for professional news sources to stay on top of developments as they occur in order to stop misinformation from warping the record before the dust settles?

Man, this could probably be the "Woolrich Terrorist Machete Murderers thread" and not the "This Just In: Rolling UK News Thread" tbh.

classic K-awesome ilx OP too.

For the topical but not necessarily political - though the news prompting this is likely to get very political.

: D

would be curious to know how caek defines "worth something"

i don't think rolling news is inherently toxic, though it's far from perfect, and a place to be a corrective is very important as merdeyeux says

In the face of that is it not important for professional news sources to stay on top of developments as they occur in order to stop misinformation from warping the record before the dust settles?

yes, but they demonstrably fail. it's not corrective. it just says stupid shit louder than people on twitter.

rolling news is often factually wrong, often about important stuff (in the last month: the tornado, the boston bombings, etc., etc.); it doesn't run corrections; the comment and analysis they include is at best glib; and at their very best, their really really good stories can be summed up as "hey everybody, look at THESE assholes!", about some people who actually are assholes.

I'm sorry but you are severely underestimating the stupidity of people on twitter.

The absence of rolling news wouldn't stop Boya Dee from telling the world that Robocop was bussin shots.

Not to say that Boya Dee is stupid but many of the people that retweet that and add their own spin on it will be.

ok granted, the rolling news coverage on rolling news channels is more often correct than the rolling news coverage on twitter.

Channel 4 news just said EDL planning a rally in Woolwich tonight. urghhh...

The absence of rolling news wouldn't stop Boya Dee from telling the world that Robocop was bussin shots.

boya dee didn't tell the world this

rolling news coverage on twitter is not a single entity that can be correct or incorrect

boya dee didn't tell the world this

That's the point.

newsflash, people put their own dumb spin on traditional news reportage as well

traditional news reporters put their own dumb spin on it!

But nowhere near to the extent that people on twitter do.

this is why we tend to limit the people we follow on twitter to those we know or trust?

i don't really care which is worse, traditional rolling news or new media social rolling news (although thanks for the twitter explanation, lex. that was the joke.gif).

i guess what i'm saying is: you may not agree with me that rolling news actively make things worse overall. but even if you think it does good, maybe you'd also concede it has problems. and maybe you'd concede that it could do less harm than they currently do, at times like these, by not screaming "LOOK AT THESE SHOCKING ASSHOLES" and repeating things that turn out to be false.

showing that video as soon as possible:tv news editor::retweeting piers morgan:someone with a twitter account.

Yes but we don't know or trust Boya Dee. Didn't stop us from seeing his tweets. Plus the assumption that people only follow those that they know or trust is pretty charitable.

lol, boya dee is a grime mc, i knew who he was

look if you're concerned about people following any random untrustworthy news source on twitter, go and talk to them about it - i'm not talking about these hypothetical people, i'm saying why it works for me as a breaking news source (not exclusively, obviously)

OMG dorks trying to understand the new york times effect on man.

I was aware of his day job but that doesn't mean I know or trust him.

I'm not concerned about it insofar as the negative effects of it are mitigated by the presence of traditional rolling news coverage.

Where is the thread where ppl are discussing the murder?

Well what's your take on the murder Mordy?

impressed with these women filmed checking on the dead guy with the killers standing right there.

I'm at my daughters dr appt in the United States so I don't have a take yet but surely some of our uklxors have insight whatever?

The murder isn't so much the deal* as the forty days and forty nights of race hell we're steaming into. Come to South East London! It's fucken summertime!

*poor bastard, RIP

Bad thread name. Think of it as a rolling thread of news discussion rather than thread of Rolling News.

I agree with much of what caek objects to regarding how 24 hour live news cycles work, that their desperation to get a new thing on air makes them broadcast inaccuracies that often go uncorrected. I don't see any problem with people posting links to reports or videos but maybe a wee "contains footage of blood covered machete wielding murderer" warning might have been in order?

Anyway, looks like this is indeed a politically motivated attack. I get the feeling that the victim was targeted and was maybe known to be a soldier, given that no attempt was made to hurt any bystanders. Hopefully these two aren't part of a larger organisation or campaign.

tbf it's not a bad thread name. i derailed it. sorry.

Insight in terms of trying to place the guys accent or trying to work out what he means when he refers to "our land"?

Don't think we should play that game.

The whole situation is pretty surreal, the lack of fear towards the perpetrators amongst those on the scene is impressive/confusing.

Does anybody know who recorded the tirade?

But srsly, look at these fucking assholes

it seems they were actively asking bystanders to film them, to document them

and then went for suicide by cop as their way out

Doesn't seem like much planning went into this.

As these things go, this whole thing was kind of very low on ambition and hence had every chance of going entirely to plan, which it seemingly did apart from their assumed attempt at entry into martyrdom.

I guess meticulousness is part of the aesthetic we associate with people that do things like this. But I guess the randomness of it correlates with what he says in the video.

Don't know how random it was. Presumably they sat in a car outside the barracks and just waited for someone who looked like a soldier to come out?

Seeing how I am made out to be some sort of instigator of all this meta stuff, or someone who crossed a boundary: I too think there is a lot wrong with the 24/7 news cycle, with broadcasting/tweeting/showing news on the go, as it happens. It irks me to no end, how news that comes in one second is interpreted the next second already, along with faux pas classifications like "Islamic attack", "Trrrrist attack", and what have you.

But I do think I was cautious enough. I didn't link to gore, I didn't make the link clickable, and tbh, the footage in itself was visually not shocking. I merely put an unclickable link up pointing towards the suspect.

That's the last I will say about it. Hope youse (and Caek) understand. Didn't intend any derail or rushed judgement, but I honestly do not think posting the video as I did was an off-limits thing to do.

Carry on.

I didn't see a problem with posting that link tbh

ty Nick

this fucking prick

N*ck Gr*ffin MEP ‏@n*ckgr*ffinmep 2h

Grim news from #Woolwich. Terrible for family and also for Britain. Another bloody step on road to Islamic rule

Griffin has been terrible all night. You could quote ten tweets like that, all equally dire.

i thought posting the link was fine too, posting an actual document of something that happened is better than posting conjecture and speculation

the EDL scare me a bit more than griffin

it seems to be like wall to wall - maybe it's a kind of troll community.

It's a really big thing on an awful lot of forums imo, it seems to come up when they do another new round of publicity tours. Search "grief whore" in other places and you might well find what I mean.

This wave seems to have been triggered by Gerry's tweet saying that he was touting for exclusives of the 10th anniversary "My Hell" stories, and the commencement of the tv tour to drive up interest.

Presumably they're doing all of that to keep their daughter's disappearance in the news, maybe pay for investigations etc? I guess they could feasibly have made some money out of it all though.

is this a thing in general in this country?

It was at the time, there were plenty of jokes about it. It was his wife though who seemed to have offended a lot of idiots by not appearing to be sufficiently distraught.

It is a staple of the Web detective community, which is huge. Lots of people have gone over the published evidence and decided they did it, without any actual info on other theories the police might be working.

a similar community emerged with the Amanda Knox case IIRC, truly the dregs of the web

I think most of the suspicion comes from the obsession they have with Goncalo Amaral, even to the point when they made petitions to the court in his divorce settlement, and the amount of money they spent on the injunction against his book.

yeah it feels like a really grim army

yeah it feels like a really grim army

That's it in a nutshell. I dislike the kind of people who get obsessed with this topic. On the other hand I don't personally dismiss the idea that there may be something fishy about the case. That's as far as I'll go. I just don't know either way so generally keep my mouth shut.

Just to check, the 'they' in aldo's comment is the McCanns though? Not that there's any right way to go wrong after something like this* happens to you.

*both the kid's disappearance and the media circus.

Yeah, the 'they' is the McCanns. Various figures were thrown around at the time about how much they spent on the injunction, but people like Carter-Ruck don't come cheap.

I only read Amaral's book to see what was so exposing in it that they fought so hard (especially, as his defence team stated, they hadn't pursued other books before or after even if the titles were more provocative against the McCanns) and mainly because it's a very short read. The biggest thing which stood out to me, and in no way implies guilt, is how unco-operative the McCanns were with the police at the time; cancelling a witness interview because you didn't want to reschedule a tennis pro session is one detail that I remember.

I think you have two groups - ones that are fixated on the McCann's specifically who, for whatever reason, are obsessed with 'bringing them to justice' and a broader element of web sleuths who don't really care that much but think it's a jolly good mystery to be pored over and solved. As ever, the neatest theory implicates the parents. People have always done this, though - the only real difference is you couldn't @ Charles Lindburgh or John Ramsey.

Obviously nothing should be surprising any more but every paper in the land splashing the photo of a nurse over their front pages with allegations she’s a serial killer of children, interviewing her neighbours, trying to speak to her parents, etc, etc prior to her being charged with anything seems like an extraordinary abuse.

some scummy stuff on Newsnight yesterday: trawling one of the novichok victim's private social media comments, and just generally not allowing her any privacy/dignity because she has addiction problems and was living in a halfway house, then obv you can run roughshod over her seems to be the rules.

I thought trial by press undermined any further trial. Meant yo weren't going to get an objective jury etc.
Or that any jury would already be swayed & hope that does still mean something.

There are certain restrictions on what can be said in relation to active police cases but, by and large, it's not against the rules to identify people who have been arrested. This wouldn't be the case in other countries, necessarily, where you can only call a suspect by their first name and the initial of their surname, not their full details, address, etc.

This case is different in some respects to most murder investigations, in that it's not entirely clear at this stage whether any crime has actually been committed. The investigation covers both whether there have been any murders and, if so, who might be responsible for them.

Additionally, the nature of the allegations - that someone is suspected of killing 10+ children, should probably mean there's a moral case for not identifying anyone until there's enough evidence to charge them. In this one, the suspect has been released on bail and hasn't been charged with anything. It seems enormously dangerous to put her details out there.

yeah , I remember stories of confusion about the prefix paed causing people to be attacked so something as directed as that sounds does sound dangerous. & deeply irresponsible.

you'd have thought things would've changed since this guy

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2014/03/26/20/pg-35-jefferies-2-pa.jpg

Interesting legal stuff happening today:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/15/gangsters-who-drove-billy-kid-fatal-gun-fight-convicted-murder/

Seems to be the first case of its kind in England - three men convicted of murder after a fourth who was with them was shot by (unidentified) men they were shooting at. Almost guaranteed to end up in the Supreme Court, not sure it’ll hold up. Some of the news reports have mentioned ‘transferred malice’, which would normally be the case if you shot someone and hit someone else accidentally, not when you shoot someone and they shoot back, hitting someone else. It’ll potentially be a very significant precedent if it is upheld.

Separately, the first tv broadcast of a murder sentencing has taken place.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/27/old-bailey-trial-televised-first-time-ever-judge-sentences-man/