Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

yeah, he'll be timey-wimeyed out of the show like everything else in this god forsaken reboot

Assuming Hartnell really is the first.

morbius dot retcon

Assuming Hartnell really is the first.

I'm mega-down with Letts and Holmes being pre-Hartnell faces for real, but it seems unlikely that Hurt would be - he didn't become the person he is until after travelling with Ian and Barbara for a year, so even older versions would have done far less to have earned the name "Doctor"

what if Hurt is actually Romana

i would squee my brains out

Wasn't there something said by the Doctor about him naming himself the Doctor for a reason. Occured to me it might have been in some kind of tribute to whoever John Hurt is, like he was a hero of his, who may have let him down rather badly.
So did this Hurt character represent something other than an earlier incarnation per se?

But then again they were inside the Doctor himself weren't they? In some way I don't quite get. Must rewatch the episode, which I tend to do every Friday anyway.

yeah has been a bit of a letdown of a series. Didn't really seem to flesh things out properly or something. Seemed to be some interesting ideas that could have been much better used.
had the thought on watching Clara at one point taht she looked like an example of that idea in pet breeding taht making mature animals retain the cute features of baby animals. There was something about the size of her eyes taht I noticed, like they were just too large. Epitome of japanese cartoon round-eye character. If you see what I mean.
I had major hopes of her when she fiorst appeared too. Maybe the next season will be better if there is one. Hopefully there will be a continuing theme and it won't simply be dispensed wityh in the 50th Anniversary edition.
Actually, noticed that the Doctor Who magazine is doing anniversary issues based on reoccurring characters or enemy races, or at least I noticed there wasa dalek Special with 50th Anniversay in the title.

FWIW, in future series I'd really like to see less 'things of extreme importance to the Doctor and his mates which then end up not mattering very much or changing anything'.

I'd like to see more episodes where it really matters what happens to some people on a space station who are being attacked by a big thing made of moss, or what happens to some people in the 16th century at the mercy of a twisted alchemist. And where this big thing made of moss or twisted alchemist don't really have anything to do with what the doctor's name is or whatever.

Why, cardamon? Well I get the sense sometimes that the universe of DW becomes thinner when villains pop up centred entirely around the doctor's personal business, without having much of history or story themselves.

(Incidentally it would be nice if the alchemist didn't turn out to be aliens or actually science because that bores me and also bores the small relatives with whom I watch the programme. But I think I've blathered about this before.)

'things of extreme importance to the Doctor and his mates which then end up not mattering very much or changing anything'

This isn't the fairest characterization of Moffat's schemes considering that the Doctor is basically the savior of the universe and anything that threatens him threatens existence by proxy and that the reason why they end up "not mattering" is because the Doctor and friends fight against them and fix/defeat them.

Also this season has been packed full of villains with agendas separate to the Doctor - you could maybe argue the Daleks in that they summoned the Doctor, and the GI at the end, but that's about it?

Moffatt-era Who has been really really bad at creating incidental characters you care about, dude who thought he was a robot aside. It'd help if so many of them didn't seem to be interchangeable middle-class TV thesp nobodies.

I agree with that, although I can think of exceptions (Craig, Rita from "The God Complex", Ada from "The Crimson Horror")

nah i agree i'm tired of 'plots against the doctor' vs. doctor foiling unrelated hijinks.

would be amazing to have a seasonlong arc which isn't about 'somebody wants to destroy the doctor' for a change but he just stumbles into something else entirely.

Yeah, a long dedicated story arc would be fine. Trying to fit stuff from the overall series plot into capers of the week is where things get messy.

just FYI this line of thinking is what brought us Torchwood: Miracle Day

But also children of earth?

Children of Earth was only 5 episodes long and they've already announced that they aren't doing split seasons again.

It's the quality of the writing that's the issue, not the (now really boring) monster of the week vs. story arc argument. Just some non-shite episodes of any shade would be good.

miracle day started so well

btw chuck otm. standalone stories would be/are fine if they're not ham fisted.

my argt wasn't that we should have a long standalone series, rather that the seasonlong subtle arc and then boom finale thing they've been doing for years now is played b/c they always end up with "all a plot of somebody to get the doctor" instead of maybe you have individual episodes and they're hinting at some bigger thing but that bigger thing is at most tangentially related to the doctor, or entirely unrelated even. more two parters would be nice though...

Moffat made a decision to cut out two parters bcz they don't save money

they would if he didn't do them with entirely different sets in each part.

Chibnall's Silurian one didn't, Moffat's Library one didn't, End Of Time didn't, Aliens In London didn't, Dances/Child had overlap - Moffat's Pandorica/Bang and Impossible/Moon both had minimal overlap, but he was looking at run of series figures. Rusty's finales recycled IIRC.

I agree I'd far prefer to see storytelling with more room to breathe and worldbuilding that justifes the expense of sets btw!

I've been Netflixing a lot of New Generation lately -- amazing how (in the good episodes) they manage to combine a, b & c plots, action stuff, worldbuilding, "room to breathe" scenes,e tc. all in 44 mins - and that's with a much larger cast too.

my theory about john hurt doctor's terrible crime is that it was not just destroying time lords, gallifrey, etc, but sacrificing his own family (susan, etc)

Hartnell ditched the heck out of Susan though

(also she turned up for a bit of an arc in McGann's fourth audio season, which I heard on Radio 4 via iplayer earlier this year)

Just rewatched Earthshock for the first time in years. Great story aside from the endless Cybermen marching down corridors scenes. I actually choked up a little when Adric said goodbye to the Doctor and Tegan, which I didn't expect.

Hartnell ditched the heck out of Susan though

Sure, but since she died (as a result of the time war?), there's obviously more to the story

new series has never said anything specific/explicit abt her fate AFAIR, don't think we're meant to assume she survived to/was involved in Time War. maybe she died of old age, but at the "moment" she's still rebuilding Earth society (again!) in the 22nd century.

[had a baby with human, he grew up, met grandpa again in his eighth body, had a Christmas episode on the TARDIS with McGann and met excellent companion Lucie Miller, grandson started boning companion when she left the Doctor and travelled the world with her, then Susan / grandson / Lucie got caught up in epic second Dalek invasion of Earth involving The Monk (played by Graeme Garden!).]

{dunno if MA/PDAs say anything different.}

they would if he didn't do them with entirely different sets in each part.

Rebel Flesh 2-parter was on the same sets too, except final scene which looked like an office building location.

well, i'm just ignoring the audio/novels, because they annoy me

yeah, I just think they're less likely to touch anything about Susan's future while it's still kinda, sorta open in another current continuity that even gets aired on the BBC.

future/past

I am really not convinced that Nu-Who gives a fuck about the novels/audios, even what with them keeping the show runners involved during the interregnum - apart from anything else, doesn't the Sarah Jane Adventures' Death of the Doctor drive a truck through a lot of that?

I should try catching up on that season of SJA that I missed, huh

nah, just watch that one episode (caveat: I have only watched that one episode)

far as I know it only requires Ace to come home to Earth at some point to fit with continuity though. I don't know where she's at by the end of the Virgin novels (planning to start reading the good ones next month!), if that's a problem.

ok hold up, let's ask a wiki (TINY TINY SPOILERS FOR NERDGLEE DAN MIGHT OTHERWISE ENJOY)

Liz Shaw is stranded on a UNIT Moon Base and cannot get back until Monday. The fact she's alive and well contradicts the events of the novel PROSE: Eternity Weeps, set in the early 2000s, in which she died, though in that novel she was also working on the Moon for UNIT.

This reference indicates that Tegan is still alive in 2010, despite having a life-threatening health condition in 2006 (AUDIO: The Gathering).

A companion called Dorothy(ea?) is said to have raised billions of pounds through her charity "A Charitable Earth." As the charity spells out the words "ACE," this is likely the seventh doctor’s companion Ace. However it could also be a reference to the First Doctor’s companion Dodo Chaplet, since charity work would fit better with her personality. She was also one of only two companions left on contemporary Earth not mentioned (the other being Melanie Bush).

looks less contradictory of audio/novels than the TV series often is of itself! but I don't have any expertise on this level

Mat Smith leaving after Christmas special

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/doctor-who/10093520/Matt-Smith-to-quit-Doctor-Who-after-Christmas-special.html

I think I'm fine with this. Loved Series 5, liked/admired/was totally befuddled by Series 6, pretty lukewarm about this last one...

yep, seems time for new blood

VG for the new Doctor

That's supposed to be embargoed until midnight... it'll be interesting to see what the public perception of the heavily rumoured replacement is.

i'd be an awesome doctor imo

We should start a new thread with Who12 speculation. The deal has been done for months i'm guessing but who knows when we'll know about it.

It would be awesome to have a doctor of color (Chiwetel Ejiofor, Paterson Joseph), if I were writing it I would make *him* be the only person distressed that he's now black, that would be hilarious (maybe only to me)

We should start a new thread with Who12 speculation.

Whoops -- adding to that: yes, will do.

Done:

Your Doctor Who No. 12 casting speculation thread

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