2008 Primaries Thread

It's different when it comes from Bill Clinton, the de facto leader -- and, up to now, inspirational voice -- of the party.

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only controversial in the sense that it seems to fit a strategy that many people think is dirty pool

Clinton campaign strategists denied any intentional effort to stir the racial debate. But they said they believe the fallout has had the effect of branding Obama as "the black candidate," a tag that could hurt him outside the South.

that's from the AP

clinton was asked why "it takes two people to run against obama" and he insinuated via the jesse jackson comment that SC's democratic party is pretty black, and that's why hillary was putting so much effort into the campaign there -- i just don't see how this is controversial??!

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, January 28, 2008 9:18 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

it sounded to me like he was implying that south carolina didn't matter because jesse jackson had won there previously and it didn't mean very much

I wonder how this Florida business will play out in the press. if hillary "wins" there will it be seen as meaningful?

anyone who thinks the clintons arent race baiting is fucking stupid - this shit so gross

it sounded to me like he was implying that south carolina didn't matter because jesse jackson had won there previously and it didn't mean very much.

It sounded to me like he was implying that the real Democratic frontrunner wouldn't need to rely on African-American support, which is a bad message to send to a significant, valuable and loyal constituency.

well, she's already expected to win my a comfortable margin in FL since none of the candidates have campaigned there, and making a show of support to FL voters before the primary will probably shore up her victory there. however, if the clinton campign continues to press to seat the delegates in FL and MI, the storyline in the press is likely to be one of conflict between the Clintons and the DNC, with the possible effect HRC alienating herself from the party establishment. Honestly, I really don't see the DNC granting her request to seat those states' delegates -- it will stand by its prior commitment so as not to be seen as supporting one candidate or another.

guys the question was specifically about why hillary needs bill to be on the campaign trail in SC. there's no need to "interpret" his answer except in relation to that question. bill mentioned that jesse won SC twice, that he ran a great campaign, that obama was running a great campaign. the clear implication was that hillary had an uphill battle in SC in part because the democratic party is so black there.

i honestly don't know what dog i'm backing in this fight yet, and have still not decided who i'm supporting in tennessee (my dad has ALREADY voted for obama, though).

i just think it's important to be intellectually honest about these little media-created moments. jhøshea if you've got some evidence you haven't shared i'd love to hear it.

there's no need to "interpret" his answer except in relation to that question.

oh give me a break

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/01/bubba-obama-is.html

Clinton was asked, the day before the primary, when everyone knew who was going to win, why it took "two Clintons to beat" Obama. He responded that Obama "ran," past tense, a good campaign, acknowledging same. And he inserted into his response Jesse Jackson, a 24+-year-old non sequitur. Clinton plainly was stating that Obama was difficult to beat because of the black vote. Just as plainly to me, the implication is that a candidate reliant upon black support to win a primary will not get the nomination, as jesse jackson illustrated, and that obama is reliant upon black support not because he's the acknowledged weaker candidate receiving a sympathy vote from black people who want to show their affections for one of their own, but because obama is a liberal race man unable to cross over and obtain white support as jackson was perceived to be. Surely you understand that Bill, like any politician, answers a question not as if seeking the correct answer to an academic quiz, but to inject the campaign's talking point of the day/week/month into the dialogue.

tracer, bill knows how to work the press corp extremely well, though i don't dispute the fact that he was providing an answer to the question. i am amused that you're willing to grant bill the authenticity of speaking only from one side of his mouth, however.

Just as plainly to me, the implication is that a candidate reliant upon black support to win a primary will not get the nomination, as jesse jackson illustrated, and that obama is reliant upon black support not because he's the acknowledged weaker candidate receiving a sympathy vote from black people who want to show their affections for one of their own, but because obama is a liberal race man unable to cross over and obtain white support as jackson was perceived to be.

whether this is "reporting" or "analysis" it's wildly speculative -- gypsies get less out of tea leaves

Tracer, what do the people you went to high school with think when they hear 'Jesse Jackson'?

what, all of them?

jesus, tracer, this is bill clinton; rhetorical deftness and ledgerdemain is his craft. just because you don't choose to interpret them just doesn't mean there aren't multiple layers of meaning at play.

ok just as long as you're open about the fact that this is your own fairly involved extrapolation of a pretty straightforward statement

ledgerdemain

too soon

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half the registered democrats in SC are black, and 4 out of 5 of them voted for obama -- should we all pretend this isn't so?

you seem to be missing this part: Just as plainly to me, the implication is that a candidate reliant upon black support to win a primary will not get the nomination, as jesse jackson illustrated, and that obama is reliant upon black support not because he's the acknowledged weaker candidate receiving a sympathy vote from black people who want to show their affections for one of their own, but because obama is a liberal race man unable to cross over and obtain white support as jackson was perceived to be.

Bill's answer wasn't "Obama has a lot of black supporters, and the majority of SC Democrats are black," it was "Jesse Jackson"

well, now you're being disingenuous. are you incapable of seeing the jesse jackson reference as clinton implying that obama got the black vote just because he's black? and that a "black candidate," like jackson, is unelectable nationally?

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and that a "black candidate," like jackson, is unelectable nationally

this is the extrapolation which is totally unsupported by anything bill said.

again, the quote is in response to a (very smart-ass) question about why hillary feels like she needs bill campaigning for her in SC.

clinton implying that obama got the black vote just because he's black

why do YOU think obama got 4 out of 5 black votes in SC? take all the time you want.

Because blacks dont think for themselves?

im trying to understand you here

jesse jackson is a national symbol of 'the black candidate' for white america, tracer

haha deej are you serious??

that must be why alan keyes did so well in SC in 2000

nice try, dipshit.

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tracer do you understand, even just as a strategic point, why it's a bad idea to link obama to jackson & imply he's getting the black vote simply because he's black? a few months ago his wife led obama among black south carolinians - why was that, if theyre are a monolithic race-voters?

bill clinton's mind is truly a machiavellian, rovian insinuation machine -- all he has to say is that hillary's got an uphill battle in such a black state and by omission this PLANTS the thought in everyone's mind that obama can't win in the general election because he's a non-mainstream narrow-appeal black candidate! yes that was surely his plan!

he didnt say "hillary's got an uphill battle in such a black state", he said JESSE JACKSON

seriously, if you think that the ONLY reason 80% of the black vote in SC went to Obama, then how would you characterize the 20% who didn't? Take all the time you want.

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stop pretending that you aren't interpreting it more than anyone else

bill clinton's mind is truly a machiavellian, rovian insinuation machine

lolz if you mean this as a joke.

i always wondered why all my friends in south carolina as a kid loved clarence thomas so much

http://a1055.g.akamai.net/f/1055/1401/5h/images.barnesandnoble.com/images/7210000/7218098.jpg

a few months ago his wife led obama among black south carolinians

a few months ago his wife led obama among everybody -- this has changed big time

i agree 100% that linking obama to jackson was a bad idea -- where i differ from the rest of you is that i think what bill said was barely an idea to begin with, it was a blunder borne of clinton's famously big mouth rather than a calculation

this reminds me of the save-a-kramers on the michael richards meltdown thread who decided that what he was really saying was "as a white comedian i feel marginalized by a PC society who allow you to say words that i cannot, because i wish to deconstruct around with those words as part of my act"

xp yeah that wacky bill clinton, always shooting his mouth off on the campaign trail, with no eye on strategy or coded messages

all he has to say is that hillary's got an uphill battle in such a black state

dude i'm not gonna pile on and call you a dipshit (?!? come on guys), but this statement needs some context. a few short weeks ago, hillary was CRUSHING obama in SC, especially among black democrats. it was axiomatic that obama had 'a problem' with black voters. and now lo and behold, after getting into SC and campaigning there, obama (maybe not black enough, too nerdy, too young, and sure to be assassinated, remember?) does very very well among blacks. even the clinton expectations-setting doesn't account for how thoroughly she got dumped.

so then bill goes out to the media and says basically, 'oh big deal, it's just a bunch of black people! they picked jesse jackson, u guys remember that shit lol"

xps

i talked to a white hillary supporter at my work yesterday who said she had been down at the headquarters and everybody was real bummed about south carolina but 'who cares, it's such a small state and it's not even important'

ugh

democracy in action!

SC's my homestate in case u didnt know

a/s/l

Aw shit. Stop The Presses

Romney, McCain call each other 'liberal':
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1131ap_republicans_florida.html?source=mypi

Lieberman's on my campus this afternoon. The Sanctimony Express!

i think one thing thats important to remember is that there are more white racist voters than black voters in america - whenever the republican party wishes they had black voters as a cherry on top of their big white sundae they can never actually do it because any appeal to black voters would alienate a greater number of racist white republicans than it would bring in new black republicans

same for bush/mccain and the strategy of not being a xenophobic race-baiter on immigration - see how well that worked out with republicans