the kniφe - shaking the habitual

Dunno, it feels like a debate that's had a lot of play in general lately, in light of "we all just press play" and Beyonce at the inauguration etc. I mean I don't think most of the audience were even thinking in those terms and a lot of them will be used to events where 90% of the music is entirely pre-recorded, but "woo we are stretching your preconceptions of what constitutes a performance" doesn't seem particularly radical in this day and age. There was an element of first year art school project to all of it.

i just listened to this record and parts of it remind me of "sexyback"

Actually The Knife covering Sexyback would have made so much sense in 2006, I can totally hear that.

Oh god. That would be amazing.

xp Wow, I couldn't disagree more.

(1) It's not art school, it's a pop concert - lots of things that would seem obvious at art school or an avant-garde theatre group can still feel fresh and divisive in an arena as conservative as live music.
(2) Beyonce wasn't miming in order to question ideas of authenticity, was she?
(3) The show wasn't all prerecorded - most of the vocals and many of the rhythms were live.
(4) Given that we've burnt through all the great modernist and postmodernist innovations, what would constitute a radical performance in this day and age? This is the most original I've seen in years from a band of that size.

I'm 100% behind Lex on the 'expectations of a live performance' issue but either way the descriptions of these Knife shows sound great to me. I like the album a lot (sonically at least - I haven't even started to digestt the lyrics yet) and there's something refreshing about their whole approach to making art.

the one time the spotlight was on a single figure it was a woman seated at a piano getting her tori amos on. you assumed it was karin until you realised the song had no piano in it

This is kind of brilliant.

I don't dispute its originality, or its enjoyability, I'm questioning it as a statement really. That said, it wasn't really a "pop concert" was it, this is The Knife after all, most people coming along seemed ready to accept it being awkward or difficult and lots of them were actually relishing it, I'm sure there are a handful of people who just want to sing along to Heartbeats but they're the minority really.

The show wasn't all prerecorded - most of the vocals and many of the rhythms were live.

Oh really? It was pretty difficult to tell because for a lot of the set it was difficult to see who was who onstage, and some of the instruments looked completely outlandish and ridiculous. If it wasn't entirely prerecorded that does change the debate here to some extent.

Matt DC about the ideas not being particularly radical, like 'exploring notions of performance' is not exactly exciting new ground wherever, but I enjoyed this… instantiation… of the investigation, eg couldn't help wondering which ones were karin & olof, questioning why I was wondering, (and similarly wondering about dancers and 'professionalism') then getting weird buzz off that cerebral knottiness and HUGE GIGANTIC PULSING music. I think that cerebral/physical mix (+ yes, the silliness of it all) was a joy.

I really liked the bit during Full of Fire when the dancers were all standing stock-still like galactic monks from Doctor Who for pretty much the entire track, before breaking into robot dances at the end.

I don't dispute its originality, or its enjoyability, I'm questioning it as a statement really. That said, it wasn't really a "pop concert" was it, this is The Knife after all, most people coming along seemed ready to accept it being awkward or difficult and lots of them were actually relishing it, I'm sure there are a handful of people who just want to sing along to Heartbeats but they're the minority really.

Surely the fact so many people were complaining and asking for their money back or saying it was the worst gig ever etc is kind of proof that such a performance, while not exactly being the first example of its kind, is relatively new to most - especially in this kind of context where it's neither gig nor clubnight nor performance art piece?

Very sad I was unable to attend although my workmate said it was totally banging. Would be interesting to have gone to both nights and gauged reactions from one to another.

Honestly I didn't see anyone complaining, most people were really into it. That said audiences can be completely different on successive nights.

Yeah, my mate said he heard a few complaints but on the whole everyone had fun. To read their facebook and twitter responses though you'd think there'd been a riot.

it's not like people who later had a go on twitter/facebook would be shouting abuse while actually at the gig.

oh yeah, everyone seemed to be having a great time last night. Cheers, whooping, etc. It may have been a more receptive audience - there may have been a few like me - I went along at the last minute - had missed tickets, but the internet noise from wednesday made me think it'd be a buyer's market outside (and that it would be - at the very very least - interesting).

I really liked the bit during Full of Fire when the dancers were all standing stock-still like galactic monks from Doctor Who for pretty much the entire track, before breaking into robot dances at the end.

Yes!

On Wednesday night it was possible to move quite far forward during the show because people were either leaving or moving to the back. That, as much as the Twitter complaints, signalled that plenty of people were unconvinced.

Yeah I'd imagine a fair few tickets changed hands yesterday. At dinner beforehand we were sat next to a couple who were priming us on what to expect, and a few people were talking about it in the pub as well, maybe the level of expectation was different beforehand.

Lol @ anyone who thinks this sort of reheated Walter Benjamin cobblers represents a particularly profound artistic or critical statement in 2013.

It strikes me as odd that when a band releases a political record, people do their best to deny it is a political record, or play it down, or say it's unsuccesful, or denounce it for being pretentious. It doesn't have to be a "profound" artistic or critical statement, it can be such a statement without being called "profound".

The Knife clearly fuelled the release of this album with a political agenda, releasing their manifest, the liner notes accompanying it. You may not agree with its views, but I don't see why so many people feel the need to ridicule it, or deny it is a political record at all.

when has this band NOT released political records?!

If I want a statement I'll go to my bank, not a record shop. Making a good record should be the priority. Then give it away for free if your politics are serious, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

So there is no place in music for conceptualism or statements?

No. If you want to make a political point go and become a politician. The problem with most modern music is that there is no place for music.

By that analogy there is no room for a political point in any of the arts then is there? A painting should "just be a good painting", a book should "just be a good book", like a record should just "be a good record" as you say? Good luck with that.

There's nothing just about it.

Also that wasn't what I said.

Then give it away for free if your politics are serious, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

What incredible bullshit. I'd expect to see a point that glib in the Daily Mail alongside the observation that Billy Bragg has a nice house these days.

You are right about the "just", my error.

You said there is no place in music for statements: If I want a statement I'll go to my bank, not a record shop. Making a good record should be the priority. Meaning the two are mutually exclusive. And if you feel this way about music, why would you not feel like this about other artforms?

xp

If you expect financial returns for your work then you are, by definition, a capitalist. They should just be honest about it, is all.

Does Billy Bragg even have a house?

You're the only one here talking "about other artforms." Perhaps there should be a board called I Love Other Artforms.

Then give it away for free if your politics are serious, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

As mentioned above, the record is licensed under Creative Commons, so it can be distributed for free.

There definitely should be!

xp

I didn't know "priority" was equatable with "mutually exclusive."

Making a good record should be the priority

not sure how anyone can disagree with this. music, or "any other artform" is always going to be an indirect way of making a political statement. if it wasn't then there'd be musical accompaniment to parliamentary speeches. it's basically the same argument as when people compare lyrics to poetry.

The Knife are like Gang of Four in that -- fortunately -- their arrangements and music embody the transgression of their garbled lyrics.

By that analogy there is no room for a political point in any of the arts then is there?

Michael, can you address my comments from yesterday -- that all songs, because their scenarios are played in public, are implicitly political?

you're being quite silly overall, but

If you expect financial returns for your work then you are, by definition, a capitalist. They should just be honest about it, is all.

c'mon, seriously? i'm sure it would be a nice world if all anti-capitalists had the unthinkable luxury to extricate themselves from the exchange of capital for labour and vice versa. or would it be a better anti-capitalist move for karin and olof to distance themselves from the higher tiers of that exchange by working in a bank or something?

You expressed you think there is *no* room for statements in music. I disagree, I think there is plenty of room for statements, of whatever nature, in music.

xxxxposts

I'm sure they wouldn't mind (xp).

Who wants to live in a world full of Statements? There is plenty of room for MUSIC in music. Everything else is secondary. As both punk and New Pop proved, people didn't bother listening to the politics of a record; they just liked the surface.

all songs, because their scenarios are played in public, are implicitly political?

this point denigrates the overtly political record more than it relieves it of the duty to be specific.

well, "political" is not very specific, is it? "Current events" and "semiotic" and "college lit theory" and "FOX News" are better adjectives.

yeah agreed. lyrics aren't very specific though and they never will be. as long as there's room for interpretation then the message is weakened. i mean, this is why we have newspapers and discussion and a massive dictionary and politics itself.

FWIW I'm not arguing this record isn't political, I'm arguing that its politics, as audible through the music itself (and leaving out the manifesto and everything else) are vague and oblique.

that's what I think too. I'm not criticising them for trying either.

Yes, the dispute arose when doglatin compared it to LES but it's definitely political in both form and content - it just bites off so many topics with such lyrical vagueness that it's easy not to perceive it as such, as many of the reviews proved.

I'm going to take Marcello's distinction between music and statement as a bit of fun Friday afternoon trolling because it's impossible to separate the two. I want all artists to make statements with their work - not necessarily political but a sense of how they see the world. Of course the priority is to make good music - that means that your statement will be more potent and more popular.

I want all artists to make statements with their work - not necessarily political but a sense of how they see the world. Of course the priority is to make good music - that means that your statement will be more potent and more popular.

isn't this just a matter of how the listener interprets it? there are loads of artists whom i don't feel make any statement about how they see the world with their music, they merely provoke a feeling or an emotion, that's all i demand, a sense of atmosphere and sounds that interest me.

the priority is to make good music - that means that your statement will be more potent and more popular.

this isn't really true either, there's no such thing as "good music" and even if there was popularity wouldn't be any sign of it.

Beyonce wasn't miming in order to question ideas of authenticity, was she?


what this post presupposes is... maybe she was?

If I want a statement I'll go to my bank

i see what you did here but do you

Really should use online banking

i'm saving the environment by getting all my statements emailed to me

Then give it away for free if your politics are serious, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

i mentioned upthread that the album is licensed under creative commons so it is free, go ahead and download it and share it with your friends