Britney Spears - Blackout

At least with Alex in NYC I can resort to "u old," but Stephen is a good dude! Just smh, I guess.

oh come now. really?

Some of her songs are very good, e.g., Toxic, but she isn't the one writing them. I guess that's a "rockist" criticism, whatever that means, but that doesn't make it wrong. It's also not a criticism meant to demean her; she's a very good performer (but not a good singer).

Having said that, I'm rooting for her on this disc and in her career. At this point, she's one of the more genuine figures in pop culture. She seems incapable of presenting herself as the sterile, boring "media product" that I expect with young pop stars. She seem interesting.

(But also keep in mind that "I old," as BH might say).

Some of her songs are very good, e.g., Toxic, but she isn't the one writing them. I guess that's a "rockist" criticism

I don't give a fuck if it's a rockist criticism or not, I was just chafed by the idea that nothing good can ever come from her; as you say, she's been involved with some good (I might say really good) stuff: Toxic, Slave 4 U, even Hit Me is sorta a quintessential late 90s pop tune.

Like you I'm also rooting for her just cause I wanna see someone triumph over the depressing Glitz Machine that drives so many talented people crazy. Bonus points for her beating the Glitz Machine if only because she's been so publicly fucked over by it.

I'm sure Alex will tell me I need to raise my standards or get some taste or whatever, but such as it is.

I don't give a fuck if it's a rockist criticism or not, I was just chafed by the idea that nothing good can ever come from her; as you say, she's been involved with some good (I might say really good) stuff: Toxic, Slave 4 U, even Hit Me is sorta a quintessential late 90s pop tune.

Like you I'm also rooting for her just cause I wanna see someone triumph over the depressing Glitz Machine that drives so many talented people crazy. Bonus points for her beating the Glitz Machine if only because she's been so publicly fucked over by it.

Yeah, I totally agree. I'm not so sure Alex would disagree, either.

I'm in the same corner as the two of you. I wouldn't consider myself a fan, really, but I think good can come out of this.

If Alex truly doesn't like "Toxic," then I feel sorry for him. I have a hunch he's just pretending not to like it.

Having said that, I'm rooting for her on this disc and in her career. At this point, she's one of the more genuine figures in pop culture. She seems incapable of presenting herself as the sterile, boring "media product" that I expect with young pop stars. She seem interesting.

She seems incapable of being a mentally healthy human being you mean? Her handlers are unable to keep her in shape and off of drugs. She's only genuine because she spiralled out of control. I don't have a problem with that, I just think it's funny that one of the only 'honest' seeming pop stars is a result of a demeaning media parade of her constant fuck-ups.

I'm really sick of this concept of "handlers."

i'm so excited

I'm really sick of this concept of "handlers."

I'm really not sure if she has handlers, but she certainly has a personal trainer, and voice training, and a number of people's careers whose success are somewhat contingent on hers, yet she still fails to perform. And what's wrong with handlers if they're there? You've got 15 year olds who suddenly have access to exorbitant amounts of money, it's expected they'll get investment advice, why not some degree of watchfulness. I know it's kind of unfair, but young people aren't that responsible, and young people like Britney Spears who has been a money generating machine since she was a child, are probably not learning a whole lot other than how to perform. That said, I don't follow this stuff at all, and am probably terribly off base.

my fear that someone will google this thread is costing me sleep

Hey John I handed someone this ancient Quito Ecuador QSL card in Pittsburgh and told them to take it to you, did you get it?

Now an amateur radio operator or shortwave enthusiast might find this and be even more confused and put off :D

i plan to get this album why because it looks intertsing

She seems incapable of being a mentally healthy human being you mean? Her handlers are unable to keep her in shape and off of drugs. She's only genuine because she spiralled out of control. I don't have a problem with that, I just think it's funny that one of the only 'honest' seeming pop stars is a result of a demeaning media parade of her constant fuck-ups.

I mean that -- for whatever reasons -- Spears isn't a polished, sterile pop star anymore, and she's a more sympathetic figure as a result. I have no desire to see more misery worked on her. To the contrary, I want her to get her act together and succeed. If you're implying that I'm rubbernecking in the hopes of being amused by Spears continuing to embarrass herself, you're wrong and I don't know how you'd get that from what I said.

trashthumb,

You're correct in the main, I think. I was speaking more generally to the idea that a pop star has "handlers" that are the puppet-masters to her artistic decisions & public face.

i find the sympathetic aspect of the whole debaucle interesting. i have felt it strongly, and am intrigued to find that others have as well.

If you're implying that I'm rubbernecking in the hopes of being amused by Spears continuing to embarrass herself, you're wrong and I don't know how you'd get that from what I said.

I'm not, I'm just saying that the reason that she's in a position to be honest is because of all this awful stuff happening to her. Didn't Mariah Carey's music become more personal after she had problems? I was just observing, not accusing you of schadenfreude.

I'm just saying that the reason that she's in a position to be honest is because of all this awful stuff happening to her.

---

That would actually have me MORE excited about the new album.

Imagine a record full of claustrophobic Neptunes-produced paranoia/anti-paparazzi songs.

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, July 28, 2007 6:03 PM

I was just observing, not accusing you of schadenfreude.

Understood.

a record full of claustrophobic Neptunes-produced paranoia/anti-paparazzi songs.

That might be the first pop album I'd listen through the entire way. As fun and interesting as a lot of the production is, I can't get past the feeling that these songwriters can't really magically transmit sincerity into the pop stars. Even if Britney just 'co-wrote' the tracks (even if that just means telling a lyricist about events, how she felt, etc) that would give them more credibility than another sexual single that even if its true, was probably just handed to that artist because they're hot.

yeah noone has ever written an album about how fame is hard and it sucks to be photographed before. can't wait for that artistic barrier to be broken. should be thrilling.

yeah noone has ever written an album about how fame is hard and it sucks to be photographed before. can't wait for that artistic barrier to be broken. should be thrilling.

Sorry for not having familiarity with something. I think just the amount of information about Britney's collapse/personal life alongside an album like that would be an interesting document, even if it's been done before. 'It's been done before' isn't something I'd consider qualitatively when someone is addressing a massive ordeal in their lyrics. Love has been done before too, but seeing other peoples perspectives on it is still interesting. But please keep being needlessly snarky

I can't get past the feeling that these songwriters can't really magically transmit sincerity into the pop stars

They often can't. That's why so much commercially-successful music sounds so bloodless, even the bouncy/urban or beat-oriented stuff (some of which, in fairness, I like very much). But of course, I'm primarily partial to the indie-rock churned out by amateurish "young knowledge workers" from fashionable towns in the West/Northwest, so take my comments for what they're worth.

yeah noone has ever written an album about how fame is hard and it sucks to be photographed before.

not produced by the neptunes.

but then they've been cold a while, wtf am i thinking anyway.

But of course, I'm primarily partial to the indie-rock churned out by amateurish "young knowledge workers" from fashionable towns in the West/Northwest, so take my comments for what they're worth.

You mean insipid drivel by repressed angry young men who refuse to dance? Hahaha you really need to check out Britney Spears back catalogue, maybe you'll finally be able to see your blackness reflected in her.

I'm just saying that in light of Lindsay Lohan's "Rumors," that Mel Gibson-produced <i>Paparazzi</i> movie, and the otherwise pretty good new Kanye song marred by the nazi/paparazzi rhyme, I'm unconvinced that it's subject matter that would make for good art or even just won't manage to make the artist sound like a spoiled douchebag. And it's not Britney not writing her own songs or addressing her personal life that's holding her back from making music of quality and distinction, it's that she's a lousy vocalist and performer on every possible level.

I can't get past the feeling that these songwriters can't really magically transmit sincerity into the pop stars

They can't. If the singer isn't charismatic him/herself, it's not a good track.

You mean insipid drivel by repressed angry young men who refuse to dance?

A Place To Bury Strangers dance.

I think it's safe to say that most people will never feel sympathetic toward celebrities whose complaint is that the cost of never having to punch a time clock again is too dear

nor "interested" by said celebrities' great barbaric yawp

+ 5 for use of my favorite phrase

I think it's safe to say that most people will never feel sympathetic toward celebrities whose complaint is that the cost of never having to punch a time clock again is too dear

I can't really argue that, and I'm certainly not the "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE" guy. All I'll say is that -- given her very public difficulties -- I now find Spears a much more compelling person.

Lots of people sympathized with, say, Princess Diana, and she certainly was a celebrity whose biggest complaint was "that the cost of never having to punch a time clock again is too dear."

Lots of people sympathized with, say, Princess Diana, and she certainly was a celebrity whose biggest complaint was "that the cost of never having to punch a time clock again is too dear."

Princess Diana was a philanthropist whose public identity was tied in to people's nationalism too. I agree that Britney Spears is more compelling, but I don't know if it's not a result of feeling like cosmic justice has been served and a high margins person was briefly dragged through the mud, and if that is the case, I guess I should feel guilty too.

Good points.

Princess Diana = proper blue-blooded royalty and not to be compared to common trash celebrity scum whores.

That said, Britney is hotter.

Also, not a corpse, yet.

shaddup, everyone.

ban fuck little lord fauntleroy

Princess Diana = proper blue-blooded royalty and not to be compared to common trash celebrity scum whores.

That said, Britney is hotter.

-- little lord fauntleroy, Sunday, 21 October 2007 04:52 (4 hours ago) Link

Also, not a corpse, yet.

-- little lord fauntleroy, Sunday, 21 October 2007 04:53 (4 hours ago) Link

max r 2

HOOS with the eternal question: ban or fuck?

BANFUCK LOUIS JAGGER

FUCKBAN probably worse.

enough

I think it's safe to say that most people will never feel sympathetic toward celebrities whose complaint is that the cost of never having to punch a time clock again is too dear

nor "interested" by said celebrities' great barbaric yawp

Shevles and shelves full of celeb gossip magazines in the UK would beg to differ.

Not really, it's 'OMG must watch the car crash' rather than genuine sympathy.

Who in their right mind wants sincerity from Britney anyway? To be honest, releasing an album mid-breakdown is a bit of misstep anyway, you want a returning triumph over adversity in two years' time, all plastic pop and no demons in sight.

Which makes me think that the Kylie album will absolutely trounce Blackout (even if the single is a bit rub) and surely no one thinks that will be full of introspective songs about coming to terms with cancer.

Shevles and shelves full of celeb gossip magazines in the UK would beg to differ.

-- ledge, Sunday, 21 October 2007 09:39 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

This explains all the smash hit singles Pete Doherty has had in the past five years oh wait

Has anybody bothered to listen to the clips or leaks if so opinions please.

uh Blackout is a synth pop record, most of it good or classic.

this thread is weird. remember when ppl cared how much credit britney deserved or didn't deserve for making amazing music? feel like that was a big topic when i was in college. first it went 'britney is talentless hack' then 'even if she makes good music other ppl deserve the credit for doing it for her' then 'well she probably deserves some credit for curating this' then 'well she probably deserves lots of credit bc u know this is her voice and her decisions and her album' then 'fuck u britney is awesome'

― Mordy, Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:24 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the "this is her decisions and her album" argument almost always bothers me, because in order to combat the "talentless hack" argument -- I mean, a legit goal -- people tend to overcompensate and misrepresent/gloss over reality, generally business/industry reality. Britney is a rare case where some of this is actually public (i.e. she's still under a conservatorship, meaning "this" quite literally is not her decisions and her album)

It's that phenomenon whereby non-critics who like music don't much discuss who produced albums or how it was made but when it's Britney they never fail to point out how many people are involved in making it even when they don't know their names.

xp Also plays to the old rockist argument of the importance of the person the record is credited to be 'controlling' the content as a producer would - wgaf when it's firing on all cylinders.

Fuck happened to Danja tho huh?

I wouldn't call that a non-critic phenomenon -- with pop artists, this sort of thing tends to crop up among professional, somewhat old-school critics

glad this thread got bumped, I almost forgot how fuckin' strange this was. I hated Ms. Spears for a long time but as soon as "It's Britney bitch" dropped I changed my tune. I remember hearing the single for the first time and just being in disbelief, felt like it just had no commercial potential whatsoever. then I heard the full thing and it was like 12 "Windowlickers" in a row. its even better than the Teen Mom album.

20 years since ....Baby One More Time

Pete Paphides:

True story. At the end of 2009, employed as The Times’ chief music correspondent, I was commissioned to ask my colleagues for their favourite albums of the decade & collate their nominations into a Top 100.
When the votes came in, it transpired that I had been the only one who voted for Britney Spears’ Blackout. Which meant that it barely scraped the 100. This was clearly an unacceptable state of affairs. So I bumped it up to number 5 anyway. #noregrets