― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 21 February 2003 08:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 21 February 2003 09:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
Do you have a concept of how these things work? Even a band as washed-up as Great White has management who arranges this shit. They're the ones setting up the shows; at that point there should be a conversation along the lines of "do you have a pyrotechnics license"; "yeah, what do you have?"; "blah blah". Somewhere, this discourse broke down. Either the management misrepresented their stage show, or the club lied about their capacity to handle same. Or lied about the license. Who knows at this early stage. But don't accuse the band of "killing people" for Christ's sake.
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 21 February 2003 09:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 21 February 2003 09:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 21 February 2003 09:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 21 February 2003 09:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 21 February 2003 09:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chris Barrus (xibalba), Friday, 21 February 2003 09:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
I know I'm going to check to see where the exits are at shows from now on (and never be too far from one..)
..wouldn't a place like that have been required to have a sprinkler system?
― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 21 February 2003 12:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 21 February 2003 13:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Friday, 21 February 2003 13:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 21 February 2003 13:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 21 February 2003 14:57 (twenty-one years ago) link
Only thing is, when I was thinking of problematic deathtrap nightclubs in the city, I wasn't thinking of these places.
― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 21 February 2003 15:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 21 February 2003 15:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
i know they've undergone renovations since the last time i was there (almost 2 years ago) but wasn't there an emergency exit out to the back alley from the pool room?
― otto midnight, Friday, 21 February 2003 15:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
A friend of mine nearly died that day of dehydration.
― Melissa W (Melissa W), Friday, 21 February 2003 16:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 21 February 2003 20:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 21 February 2003 20:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 21 February 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Aaron W (Aaron W), Friday, 21 February 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 21 February 2003 20:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 21 February 2003 20:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
Oh, and get this.. the headliners were the Charalambides.
I had nothing to do with the addition, but the guy who was the main booker wanted to do their label/booker a favor I guess. Noble, but it turned out to be rather awkward and bad. (Thankfully, that was the only bad moment of all the shows, and have amazing respect for the folks who kept that all-ages venue alive)
Anyway, the World Inferno Friendship Society did a variety of pyrotechnics inside a venue that was an ALL WOOD ART SHACK!
Smart, guys. Really smart. Thanks for stinking up the place, too. Hope you guys are now banned from playing shows ever again.
― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 21 February 2003 23:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 21 February 2003 23:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 21 February 2003 23:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
"Remember this next time someone tells you 'there is no such thing as bad publicity'."
Ouch. No kidding. The owner of the Stone Pony apparently wants Great White impaled in the sun. I think a lot of people are feeling that way about this.
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 22 February 2003 00:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 22 February 2003 01:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
In all cases.. :(
― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 22 February 2003 01:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Evan (Evan), Saturday, 22 February 2003 01:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
There's a lot of finger pointing going on right now between the surviving band members and the owners of the club. What strikes me about this is that EVEN IF the management of the club didn't know about the pyro effects, they are still guilty of GROSS NEGLIGENCE. If you own a business, it is your duty to know what is taking place in your establishment - either by a stage manager, a soundman, or some other person who is involved with the set-up of the equipment. It is also your duty to have procedures in place in the event of an emergency, such as fire extinguishers, plans to show people the exits in the event of a fire, etc. What strikes me about this tragedy is that there appeared to be little to no response from the club staff during the fire. Yes, there are those heroic people who saved others, but I'm referring to the more basic needs of having staff open exits and use fire extinguishers during the initial moments of the fire.
I also listened to Mr. Santana, of the Stone Pony, as he professed his disgust at Great White and how he was taken completely by surprise by their pyro effects. Again, while this may be true, his lack of knowledge of events in his venue reeks of negligence. Of course, he's going to claim his ignorance - he's trying to cover his ass. Do you think he'd say that he knew they were going to use pyros without the permits? No way. Same thing with the owners of The Station.
I'm not taking sides here, only making an observation. I think the owners are at the least guilty of negligence and as far as the band, I don't know. They might be telling the truth because according to accounts from other clubs on this tour, they were denied permission to use pyros and didn't use them. Also, Great White played The Station 18 months ago, without pyro. Why would they suddenly decide to use them, especially after NOT doing so at other venues on this tour?
Beyond the legal ramifications, my heart goes out to all the victims and their families. This is a terrible tragedy, absolutely horrific.
I hope that from this disaster come measures that will prevent such a thing from happening again.
― Davlo (Davlo), Saturday, 22 February 2003 01:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 22 February 2003 01:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 22 February 2003 02:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
Meanwhile, in the 'uh, yeah, duh,' category, CNN's legal talking head had this to say, and while most of it is sound, the concluding comment is a bit 'the hell?':
And I'm not so cynical to think that liability is the only reason. I think that club owners genuinely don't want scores of people dying in their clubs.
Gee, ya think?
Meanwhile, over at the missing guitarist from Great White's guestbook, you've got people posting good wishes and remembrances...and then you've got a whole bunch of incredibly tasteless jokes from a slew of people at fuckedcompany.com as well. Smooth.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 22 February 2003 02:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
ie fans and punters and rock reviewers and posters to forums like these (who are obviously all smart and eloquent and care abt other ppl and whatever)
too much of rock/punk/rap subculture at ordinary times: "the govt sucks, it's like square guys in suits who don't get it!! FUCK THE SUITS, MAN!!" too much of rock/punk/rap subculture at times like these: "where are the laws which we assumed kept us and our loved ones safe?"
this and chicago and anything like it are horrible and sad obv, even from far across the sea, not least bcz foax like great white were basically totally goofy and harmless and who the hell deserves this, least of all them?
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 22 February 2003 12:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 22 February 2003 12:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 22 February 2003 12:51 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 22 February 2003 12:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
when did you last see a review of some show at some dingy shack (or rave or whatever) saying "the band totally rocked, but btw this club is a horrific fire risk — go there at yr own peril, or let's get the bands that we like to boycott it till the owners take action"?
kerry — quite correctly — said that consumer groups shd regularly check these places out actually WHEN THEY'RE IN USE: all i'm pointing out is that consumers groups = orgs including fans themselves, and if everything is just left to a vague "measures must be taken", w/o pitching in yrself (obv i don't mean YOU ALEX MUST ORGANISE THIS, i mean the "you" most directly in the line of fire in these situations, ie the punters who go to such venues regularly anyway), then you WILL find that the measures taken will probbly leave yr area devoid of ANY funky little outlaw spaces etc etc (ie cf the v.good point you made up-thread, re city authorities simply shutting all clubs to save themselves the headache)
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 22 February 2003 13:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 22 February 2003 14:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
Dave, you live far (by RI standards) from The Station; I rent movies at the Blockbuster down the street from it ALL THE TIME.
Scary shit. Death toll is at 96, making it worse than Waco in terms of deaths.
I don't think I knew anyone, but given how small a state this is, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that I know friends of friends aunt's cousins sisters and shit.
― ian johnson, Saturday, 22 February 2003 21:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Saturday, 22 February 2003 23:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 22 February 2003 23:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 23 February 2003 11:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
From News of the Weird
In the midst of the national debate over fire codes in the wake of the February Warwick, R.I., nightclub disaster, fire safety consultant Philip R. Sherman told a Providence Journal reporter that toughening the codes was not an automatic cure because the codes will still be ignored due to variations in people's intelligence: "Clearly we have to account for dumb things (when we write the codes). Is wrapping the room in foam plastic the level of dumbness we want to account for? Or will somebody do something (even) dumber?" [Providence Journal, 3-14-03]
― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 22 May 2003 18:11 (twenty years ago) link
Dan Biechele was to be tried in May on 200 counts of involuntary manslaughter related to the blaze at the Station nightclub in Rhode Island in 2003.
The fire started during a show by Great White, Mr Biechele's band, when fireworks ignited soundproofing foam.
Two brothers who were co-owners of the West Warwick club also face charges.
According to Judge Francis Darigan at Providence Superior Court, Rhode Island, Mr Biechele will plead guilty to "certain counts" against him.
Great White guitarist Ty Longley was among those killed in the fire, which began just seconds into the concert.
The band was popular during the 1980s, with hits including Rock Me and Once Bitten, Twice Shy.
― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link
By Eric Tucker, Associated Press Writer | January 31, 2006
PROVIDENCE, R.I. --The former manager of the heavy metal rock group Great White has agreed to plead guilty to 100 counts of involuntary manslaughter stemming from the deadly 2003 nightclub fire, a judge said Tuesday.
Superior Court Judge Francis Darigan said Daniel Biechele will serve no more than 10 years in state prison under a deal with prosecutors that may have spared him a life sentence. He is scheduled to enter the plea next Tuesday.
Biechele was originally charged with 200 counts of involuntary manslaughter for setting the blaze that began when he ignited pyrotechnics during a Great White performance at The Station nightclub in West Warwick.
Sparks from the pyrotechnics ignited highly flammable foam lining the club's walls and ceiling, creating a fast-moving blaze that also injured more than 200 people in the fourth-deadliest nightclub fire in the country's history.
Each manslaughter charge carries a maximum of 30 years in prison.
Darigan did not say whether Biechele will cooperate with prosecutors in the case against club owners Jeffrey and Michael Derderian, who are also each charged with 200 counts of involuntary manslaughter for allegedly installing the flammable foam in violation of the state fire code.
Tom Briody, a lawyer for Biechele, declined to comment.
Biechele has said through his lawyer that he had permission to light the pyrotechnics during the Feb. 20, 2003, concert, but the Derderians have disputed that claim.
Jeff Pine, the attorney for Jeffrey Derderian, declined to comment.
Some victims' relatives reacted angrily to the news.
"My daughter's life is worth more than a plea bargain," said Diane Mattera, who lost her 29-year-old daughter, Tammy, in the fire.
"For the 100 victims, and for all the ones that are burnt and scarred and everything else, they deserve much more than this -- not a plea bargain," she said. "This is absolutely wrong."
Rosanna Fontaine, whose 22-year-old son Mark was killed in the fire, was among the relatives notified last week in a letter from the Attorney General's office that Tuesday's court date would be Biechele's final pretrial conference. She was not told of a possible plea deal.
"It's hard today," she said. "I don't think we hold out much hope that anyone really is going to be held accountable."
The plea agreement is likely to change the landscape of the criminal case against the Derderians, said David Frank, a former prosecutor and current reporter for Rhode Island Lawyers' Weekly and Massachusetts Lawyers' Weekly. It could make it easier for them to point blame at Biechele if he admits responsibility.
"His lawyer isn't there to sort of present his side of the story or present his spin," Frank said. "So it really allows the Derderians to put whatever blame or whatever responsibility they think is appropriate on this manager."
The upside for prosecutors is that it would remove the uncertainty of a jury trial, he said.
That's not good enough for Mattera.
"Where in God's name would he ever be acquitted on this Earth?" she said. "That would never happen."
The three defendants were charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter for each of the 100 people killed. One count per death alleged criminal negligence, the other accused the defendants of committing underlying misdemeanor offenses that led to the deaths.
Under Biechele's deal, he would plead guilty to the counts related to misdemeanor offenses.
― Edward III (edward iii), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 20:35 (eighteen years ago) link
Is that long enough?
― hyde park records (colonel), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/27/world/americas/brazil-nightclub-fire/index.html
― buzza, Monday, 28 January 2013 02:30 (eleven years ago) link
Saw that. Pretty horrible. Have a friend from there, well from the town where the hospital is.
― Leopard Skin POLL-Box Hat (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 January 2013 04:45 (eleven years ago) link
An accordionist who had been performing onstage with a band when the blaze broke out was among the dead, drummer Eliel de Lima told Globo TV.
― the late great, Monday, 28 January 2013 05:22 (eleven years ago) link
Ten years ago tomorrow.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
And ten years ago today. The Providence Journal's special features
Overviews of all the victims via the Boston Globe
The Station Fire Memorial Foundation.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 February 2013 20:55 (eleven years ago) link
The video with he hand transplant was heartbreaking and would have been regardless of where the guy got burned.
Also inspirational.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
Great White's Jack Russell to play first New England show since Station fire
― Jazzbo, Monday, 27 July 2015 14:57 (eight years ago) link
So Great White decided to play a show in North Dakota with zero social distancing and zero masks and needless to say Twitter is dragging them for it...
17 years ago, 100 people died in the Station Nightclub fire afterGreat White’s tour manager lit pyrotechnics inside the small club during a show. One of the band’s biggest hits is called “Once Bitten, Twice Shy.” Who had this on their 2020 bingo card? https://t.co/43iHWZ98fT— Billy Jensen (@Billyjensen) July 11, 2020
Do people not remember what happened last time Great White ignored public safety guidelines? https://t.co/aBfayZH1OZ— Warner Bros. Re-Release Cop Killer (@MetalShayne2000) July 12, 2020
Great White really pumped to add another entry to the “Tragedies” section of their Wikipedia page huh https://t.co/LZWVQY3OUE— Casey Malone (@CaseyMalone) July 11, 2020
Eh, nothing bad has ever happened to the audience at a great white concert before, right? https://t.co/DRzujyU0lf— Brendan Kelly, provocateur/total dildo (@badsandwich) July 11, 2020
Great White in 2003: Kill 100 people by bringing too much pyro to a small club.Great White in 2020: Hold my beer. https://t.co/YV8YyVt8eT— Metal Injection (@metalinjection) July 12, 2020
Whoa. I'm genuinely shocked by this.All the simpering apologies for their reckless pyro antics that got 100 people killed in 2003 feels like a bunch of hot air now. This is beyond irresponsible. Fuck @GreatWhiteRocks.#ClassicRock #GreatWhite #HairMetal https://t.co/nnBMtK8cgZ— Play That Rock’n’Roll (@playthatpodcast) July 12, 2020
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Sunday, 12 July 2020 01:19 (three years ago) link