Rolling 'this is sexist' thread

Sry that was xxxpost.

Why don't you think this is exactly how the two dudes having a private conversation adjacent to Adria Richards felt?

amazing

Why don't you think this is exactly how the two dudes having a private conversation adjacent to Adria Richards felt?

Because they were doing it in a room full of people during a conference talk about making the tech industry more inclusive to women as opposed to in a tiny lunchroom with one table and a behind a closed door?

I understand K3vin's original point about the conference rules. I think k3vin misses the point, but I find some of these necktie responses bewildering.

K3vin's point: Why are people in this thread stressing the conference policy, when no one cares about conference policies, but what we really care about is sexual harassment.

My response to K3vin: People in this thread and elsewhere stress the conference policy, because sexual harassment policy is put in place to put everyone on an equal footing to create clear lines so as to avoid these situations, and protect people who would be the target of harassment. Harassment policy serves a very important purpose. This case is a perfect example of how the policy works. People can cite the policy. It protects everybody, including would-be perpetrators!

Has any ilxor been to this particular con?

a good friend of mine attended in either 2008 or 2009 when it was in chicago

was it remarkable in any way from other tech confs? i think the perl one takes place on a boat

that "everybody knows an Adria Richard article" is vile

**makes sexual jokes within earshot of dozens of people** THIS IS A PRIVATE CONVERSATION

xp: I think I got about halfway through it before I just couldn't take any more; I really felt like I needed a shower

I don't remember any particular issues with presentations or audiences that he mentioned, although we did briefly talk about one of the attendees he recognized -- she wasn't presenting, but I thought it was cool that he was at the conference since I'd used some sites she'd developed. Unfortunately, a lot of articles at the time were fond of dropping her dating history in. Definitely a sexist angle, but that wasn't really anything to do with the conference.

There was a craft brew (lol) party at the conference, I think.

I guess a certain website was overdocumenting her for a bit: http://gawker.com/leah-culver/

what the hell

(btw the writing and gossip involved in all this is about ten times more disgusting than dongle jokes)

I mean that article stops just short of baldly stating "woman tricks men into coding for her using her vagina"

gross

Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out?

(btw the writing and gossip involved in all this is about ten times more disgusting than dongle jokes)

― I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, April 3, 2013 3:30 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this, this, this. Dongle jokes -- crossing a line, inappropriate, makes people feel uncomfortable, shouldn't be done. The stuff being written about Richards, otoh, evinces such shockingly virulent misogyny that it only drives home why she felt compelled to do what she did.

I think the wider angle was mostly "average programmer (because women can't be good at that, right) makes good business deals because she's dating tech scene dudes" which is straight-up bullshit because friends-of-friends in that scene help each other launch all kinds of crap all the time. But she's a woman, etc.

Sorry to track on to this from the pycon thing -- pycon was totally boring when my friend was there. Except the free beer.

btw I was referencing the article I linked when I said writing and gossip, not the events of 2013

also let's talk for a second about how a Gawker writer doing a hit piece on a woman who dated a former Gawker editor is not at all sketchy/suspect

ah ok. well what I said stands anyway.

I've met a few misogynist coders in my time. My company got rid of them as soon as they could. It sounds like this is what happened to the 'jokesters'. Chances are good the company knew they were shitheads, already wanted to fire them and saw their chance.

If she doesn't want to be famous, Culver might want to take a look at her relentless technosexuality, which more than hints at the acquisition of influence rather than intimacy as its goal.

I love how techno sexuality just links to another list of dudes she's dated.

Is it sexist to point this out? Perhaps, but not nearly as sexist as touting technical skills while sleeping your way to the top.

Everything about this article is truly disgusting.

relentless

it's really frustrating how the anti-adria-richards forces have managed to completely distort the facts of the case. i think it's been stated more than once on this thread that the two dudes were NOT having a private conversation that richards overheard (which, yes, would have been bad enough). she had turned around to talk to one of them and his friend (the guy who ultimately got fired) butted in with dongle jokes. she tried to redirect the conversation and he ignored her. that's when she got pissed.

I'm just glad that anonymous over at gawker had the courage to call this woman out on her sexism.

My understanding of the order of events based on both her the fired dude's words is that she was talking to one dude about dissatisfaction with a portion of the keynote talk and the guy who got fired butted in with the forking joke, which caused her to disengage; dude then went on to make the dongle jokes after she had bailed on the conversation (during the segment of the presentation when the speaker was talking about making tech more accessible/open to women).

So many words written about events that took place in less than two minutes

Big Time Technosexuality

straight-up bullshit because friends-of-friends in that scene help each other launch all kinds of crap all the time. But she's a woman, etc.

can I just otm this 6000 times over? the amount of backslapping, linking, retweeting, funding, plug-your-site-if-you'll-plug-mine, talk-at-your-conference-if-you'll-do-x-for-me that goes on between guys, and the second a woman is involved it's like "ohhh, geek slut everyone! look at the evil calculating bitch taking advantage with her mysterious woman ways which surely involve sex!"

(I think I've said before that I only realised years after dropping out of CS that all the guys were hanging out in each other's dorm rooms talking about assignments all the time, but the second a girl asks a question everyone says "look at that dumb bitch, fluttering her eyelashes so everyone else does her work for her" etc. and it doesn't seem to stop a decade after everyone's left university)

"forking joke"

What ultimately protects all these sexist shitheads is that they have specific technical skills that are in demand. If they are good enough coders someone will always hold their nose and hire them. This gives them a sense of protection, so they feel free to expose their vileness in public. They eventually believe that their coding skill and ability to find work proves their superiority and validates their stupidest ideas and beliefs.

P.S. Most of them are libertarians.

Wait was the guy who got fired Johnny dangerously?

aimless, that seems to apply to most intrinsic or specialised skills. i'm thinking about athletes.

also musicians, and bankers, and chefs, and lawyers, and businessmen, and suddenly it's starting to seem like this has nothing to do with "intrinsic or specialised skills"

I think most people are socially awkward when in situations outside of their normal sphere. It's just some people, through their personal lives or careers, have a wider range of social interaction.

who hires businessmen?

other businessmen

more loathsome businessmen

senior businessmen

Why was the other guy fired (obv why was aria fired too)

Why the other guy was fired:

http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/

Briefly tossing in something new and unrelated here: http://gawker.com/5993482/university-billboard-celebrating-remarkable-women-features-three-grinning-guys

Thks, that covers both of em so?

omg Phil

l3ah c. was a notoriously notoriously incompetent person around tech. i hadn't seen those articles before, but i remember seeing links before the site was shut down where she was asking for help on her blog to do something like take the modulus of a number, but didn't know what that was or how to call it that and had come up with a terrible jury-rigged solution, and she was like 'lol, i'll learn to code some day guys!' there was also the story of a party where she sees someone's raid array and yells "oh, hot-swappable!" and before anyone can stop her, yanked out the drives, which were not at all 'hot-swappable' and caused this persons system to come to a screeching halt and destroyed lots of data that had to be restored from backups.

so the sexist stuff about her was not cool, but at the same point there was a general atmosphere of 'wtf how is this person the cto of a company'.

darraghmac, only one of the guys from playhaven was fired. adria richards was fired because she "divided the same community she was supposed to unite"...

the story of a party where she sees someone's raid array and yells "oh, hot-swappable!" and before anyone can stop her, yanked out the drives, which were not at all 'hot-swappable' and caused this persons system to come to a screeching halt and destroyed lots of data that had to be restored from backups.

OK this is amazing.

Her being fired is obv ludicrous, i just didnt want to be mentioning only the guy tbh