Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Yeah, I said that - with the "next time" teaser also looking mightily similar to the second ep of Ecclescake's series as well.

Gaiman has written the penultimate episode of this series, by the way.

As long as he doesn't chew on anyone's postcards, that's fine.

debate is raging on my Twitter feed on whether or not nu-Who (I think both this latest episode specifically and the recent period in general?) is sexist / at least v dubious wrt gender roles. I've seen only bits and pieces, not enough overarching plots and such to judge, so what does ILX think?

Moffat era is a bit.

I think Moffat gets a bad rap for this -- there is sexism in his writing but I will argue w/anyone who thinks that RTD was less so. How was Rose sobbing on a beach that her life was worthless until the Doctor came along was in any way progressive?

I wouldn't say it's progressive, but writing a storyline doesn't have to avoid emotion. Catherine Tate obviously the best of the companions on that front. I just think Moffat tends to reduce women to sassy puzzles that need to be figured out. Rory probably the most emotionally complex character of this era.

RTD would never have let that "Is it a demon?" / "It's a woman" / *monk crosses himself* joke past, as an obvious example.

It was practically a re-run of the 'Rose' Christopher Eccleston opening episode, with the Shard standing in for the London Eye this time.

― ex-ex-gay (Bob Six), Sunday, 31 March 2013 23:41 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I said that - with the "next time" teaser also looking mightily similar to the second ep of Ecclescake's series as well.

― ailsa, Sunday, 31 March 2013 23:54 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i do wonder (going out on a limb here) whether moffat's look-at-me ultracleverness pissed off even the bbc so much that they asked him to do a simple opener this year.

taking or leaving that, this episode had to be all about introducing clara (AGAIN) and her relationship with the doctor (AGAIN), so the plot had to be in service of that.

and by the 50th anniversary dealio moffat will be back to super-hyper-oh-what-a-delicious-genius-am-i cleverclogs. there was enough timey-wimey clara dialogue planted throughout this to suggest that it's shooting back up to pandorica levels of self-indulgent puzzling in short order.

The debate on sexism/gender politics is essential, but IMO I think we're all overlooking a very important issue: Eleven's bow-tie is possibly clip-on?

Rory probably the most emotionally complex character of this era.

Rory's misogynist car is my favorite ilx screen name of this era.

is this the third or the fourth moffat plot that's centred on people getting trapped as ghosts and echoes inside technology? you'd think someone would point it out to him.

'centred' is wrong, there - used the image of.

I wonder who will be a viable show runner once Moffat quits? There's no stand-out writer under him the way he was under RTD. Hopefully they'll find some new blood rather than give the gig to one of the many mediocre hacks writing for the show.

kind of crap

Hopefully they'll find some new blood rather than give the gig to one of the many mediocre hacks writing for the show.

Yes, this - I would love to see Smith stay on and be great under another regime, but if it ends up being eg Chibnall I'll give up watching forever.

Bring back Cartmel tbh

I wonder who will be a viable show runner once Moffat quits?

Lawrence Miles.

oh jesus

I don't know why Paul Cornell hasn't been invited back. Family of Blood in 2007 was his last episode.

Clara is a consistently great character but this episode was mostly inessential aside from the awesome scene in the cafe

It bothered me that she was so dumb wrt technology that she called a random phone number to get someone to help her "fix" the internet, and got all of her hacker skillz from the Shard. Other than that, I like her character.

If Chris Chibnall gets it I will never watch this show again. I hope it is someone entirely new to Who, I think this show needs fresh blood/ideas/etc.

The only current regular writer I'd at all trust is Toby Whitehouse, mainly because of his Being Human pedigree.

Oh and obviously it would be interesting to see what Gaiman would do with it, but I can't see that happening.

That didn't bother me that much, considering that the girl she was nannying obviously was comfortable with technology and rolling her eyes at her ineptitude; also having tried to help both my mother and my father work through wifi issues the tenor of that entire scene basically felt like the truest, most accurate representation of technological befuddlement I'd ever seen.

(xposts obv)

the main takeaway I have of Cornell from his Virgin/BBC books is that, aside from Human Nature, he cannot write or plot for female characters to save his life, so if he takes I would I would expect a massive uptick in complaints about how the women of Who come across

Oh and obviously it would be interesting to see what Gaiman would do with it, but I can't see that happening.

I like his writing BUT his association with Amanda Palmer and his involvement in her moneyspinning activities has kind of made me hate him?

^^^

Oh he's probably a bit of a prick, and I don't like his writing unreservedly. But he's undeniably a great ideas man, and he knows how to handle a long-form narrative.

I've been a longtime fan of his books & short stories. If I scrape away all my recent misgivings about him, admittedly I think I would enjoy seeing what he could do with Who

Yeah, I agree with that. I really would love to see someone who had had nothing to do with Who up until now get a crack at it, though.

are you all ready for Dan Harmon's Doctor Who

YES

Danny Pudi would make a pretty flawless Doctor.

Except for being American and all.

racist

:)

Perfectly serviceable opener, not great but decent enough.

Had a sudden moment of horror towards the end though when all the souls were returned back to their bodies - had an image of some of them waking up to find themselves buried alive. :s

feel like DW never thinks about the full terrifying implications of these big, "alien controls all of humanity" storylines enough (though Torchwood's Children of Earth miniseries came close) - not that I'd want them to do it all the time (too fucking depressing), but sometimes I think it'd be interesting if the show explored that darkness a bit more.

that was the thing though; most of those people were already dead so they didn't really have bodies to return to

They addressed that with 'anything's better than being trapped in a living hell...'

yeah meant to add that

Clara's pencilled-in ages in the front of her book going from 22 to 24, anyone?

yeah I noticed that too

currently guessing that someone is using her as bait for a Doctor trap and that she was taken when she was 23

16's also missing. Apparently it's allegorical to missing seasons of the programme.

What are you talking about

oh lol I should have caught on to that

How is it allegorical to missing seasons of the programme

I don't know why Paul Cornell hasn't been invited back. Family of Blood in 2007 was his last episode.

If I was Cornell I could see not wanting to come back after the terrible rewriting of the end of that

But a) was his invitation actually rescinded after his pilot didn't get picked up? hadn't heard that, and b) when would he possibly have time to write one?

Apparently it's allegorical to missing seasons of the programme.

oh god fanwank

now now lets hear suzy's theory out first

... it's not that complicated a theory; some of her years are missing from the book, and some seasons of Doctor Who are missing

if there's any more to it than that, good luck fandom

hopefully there is, because the second fanwank gets in the way (rather than being part of the scene/plot somehow) it's time to go home