Please explain to me just what exactly No Wave is.

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WOW

― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

...It isn't Rock, none of your Marilyn Manson or Nirvana worshipping kids skateboarding down the local shopping precinct would have pictures of The dfa on their bedroom walls...

'No Wave' is a term loosely coined by the journalists of the NME a few months back - an all encompassing term where the likes of the camp cock-rock posturing Fischerspooner can sit next to the pounding gothic electro of Death In Vegas, where the German trio of The Notwist can sit next to the charming New York resident Adam Goldstone and where the no nonsense production of the dfa's Tim Goldsworthy & James Murphy can jostle alongside the crooning of Austria's Louie Austen.

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

*weeps*

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

Here's what No Wave meant in 1978 (before No New York came out):

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:89881vajzzca

http://www.jj-archive.net/albums/CAcom_nwus2.jpg

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

can we make a band list?

DNA, Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, Theoretical Girls, Glenn Branca (Ascension era), Mars, the Contortions, Birthday Party...

― chris andrews (fraew), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm still sad that someone else coined "neu wave" before me. I'm pretty sure it's inevitable since I didn't even think of it until last year.

I felt that way about "punk-funk"

― Cunga (Cunga), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

Are you talking about the dull canonical first wave?

― A homunculus of Darby Crash, .... created for the purposes of *EVIL* (ex machina, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

xpost

― A homunculus of Darby Crash, .... created for the purposes of *EVIL* (ex machina, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

Cristina
Was (Not Was) (kinda)
Suicide
anything Rhys Chatham related

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

sorry, got rhys mixed up with branca... my apol.

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

suicide? really? i guess if you approach it from the mutant disc / synth-orientated side of things...

what about the swell maps, homosexuals and the zoomers?

― chris andrews (fraew), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

'No Wave' is a term loosely coined by the journalists of the NME a few months back

Is this true? Did NME actually print shit about "No Wave"?

― A homunculus of Darby Crash, .... created for the purposes of *EVIL* (ex machina, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

that site is hilarious. the notwist!

― rizzx (rizzx), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 22:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

no it's not true but according to that duff link i posted, yes!

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 22:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

I don't really get Birthday Party (who I kinda like --well, more than Nick Cave's solo shtick anyway) as a no wave band, unless you also think, say, the Gun Club and Flesheaters and maybe even the Cramps were no wave bands. I understand Was (Not Was) (whose first album and first single I've always loved) and Cristina as no wave even less; if Cristina is no wave, why not also Lene Lovich, or even Grace Jones?

I'd say the Brits who came closest were the Pop Group, probably. (Or, I dunno, Essential Logic, maybe?) But outside of New York, I'm not sure the term really makes much sense. Anyway, here's a compilation of what no wave evolved into in NYC, a couple years down the line (though of course it also evolved into Sonic Youth, Swans, etc etc):

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=&sql=10:sn6dtro9kl4x

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 22:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

Does anyone up in this bitch like UFO or Die?

― A homunculus of Darby Crash, .... created for the purposes of *EVIL* (ex machina, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 22:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

Sure.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 22:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

No mention yet of the grebt No Wave opera Jon Gavanti, featuring people from Mars and D.N.A.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 22:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

the definitive no wave list?

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 23:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

and a definition from that site -

I define No Wave as an (anti-)aesthetic demarcation and not necessarily an idiomatic one -- that is to say that I think No Wave had (or has) more to do with a nihilistic, but sometimes totally sardonic outlook than a certain cliched guitar sound or drumbeat, as many would have you think. Simply put, the term could be utilized to define any negatively charged music destroying or disemboweling the tradition of Rock music and its platitudes through intentional noise, abstraction or atavism. By this stretch, prototypical groups like The Electric Eels, pre-first album Stooges, Suicide, Kongress, Debris, early Residents and Captain Beefheart seem to fit the parameters of term beautifully. Simultaneous to the original New York No Wave scene there was plenty of simultaneous/sympathetic activity in other places: Nervous Gender, Noh Mercy, The Screamers, Z'ev, Johanna Went, Chrome, Vox Pop a.o. on the West Coast; Einstuerzende Neubauten, Malaria a.o. in Berlin; Silver Abuse and Ama-Dots in the Midwest; Blurt, Glaxo Babies, Crawling Chaos, Whitehouse, Biting Tongues and (arguably) the whole Rough Trade brigade in the U.K.

personally, i'd debate whitehouse, biting tongues, and the whole rt brigade being on that list.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 23:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

a few threads where most of this is discussed are listed below...I don't think there are any hard and fast definitions of no wave - listen to the recs and make yr own up - I wouldn't say the music was 'negatively charged': intentions are fun to speculate but yesterday's 'noise' becomes acceptable sound. There's intuitiveness in abundance from the likes of DNA and mars but also the raincoats...

OPO: no wave songs
No Wave Cameos in 'Desperately Seeking Susan'
Ut c/d, s/d
Glenn Branca , The Ascension: Classic or Dud?
Theoretical Girls
In the mood for DNA?
Recommend some good No Wave albums.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 5 May 2005 10:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hair Wave

― Amon (eman), Thursday, 5 May 2005 11:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

Thanks for the info people.

― Ignoaramus, Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

gnu wave

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

re: Red Transistor...

the single came out in the 90s, and the tracks have made it onto some NY related CD comps a bit later. This one w/ Blondie and Suicide and such.

Von Lmo claims there is more Red Transistor stuff, that those songs are just the tip of the iceberg, but everything else was done under his own name. Most people think if Rudolf Grey is not involved, then it's not Red Transistor. Lmo disagrees. But there have been other releases under that name, but w/o Grey.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

Circle X written out of the history YET AGAIN.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

Those tracks on the Red Star comp that Dan mentions are not the tracks from the single and they are an early version of the VON LMO Band. They sound more like Red Transistor than Future Language-era LMO, though.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

Here's my SoulSeek list of what I've managed to compile thus far, including the mutant disco offshoots and related acts:

8 Eyed Spy
Sweet Pea Atkinson
Beirut Slump
The Birthday Party
Glenn Branca
Bush Tetras
Coati Mundi
James Chance
Circle X
Cristina
Dark Day
Dr. Buzzard's Original Savannah Band (Kid Creole)
Lizzy Mercier Descloux
DNA
Don King (Mars/DNA)
ESG
Golden Palominos
John Gavanti (Mars/DNA)
Kid Creole & The Coconuts
Konk
Liquid Liquid
Lydia Lunch
Mars
Monitor
Primitive Calculators
Raybeats
Red Transistor
Suicide
Teenage Jesus & The Jerks
Theoretical Girls
Tsk Tsk Tsk/Tch Tch Tch
Ut
Von Lmo
Was (Not Was)
Y Pants
Zooks

And compilations:
Anti NY
Downtown 81 soundtrack
New York Noise
NY No Wave
Mutant Disco
Mutant Disco 3
West Coast No Wave
Ze Christmas Album

Granted, it's way liberal, but most of these acts seem to have gleaned enough inspiration from one another to warrant inclusion as being no wave influenced, at the very least.

It's hard to know where to draw the line, really. I think I personally tend to judge it in terms of a very specific time/scene. Because, for instance, early Swans and Sonic Youth are, sonically speaking, more no wave-y than, say, Cristina, but they're more of a...second no wave, I guess. As inspired by the original or somesuch.

Walling off the borders of a genre is pretty much impossible, when you come right down to it.

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

Somehow Mofungo and offshoots (Blinding Headache, Information, etc.) always (often?) seem to get left off of these lists. By all means add the related band V-Effect to the Slsk search. Their 1984 "Stop Those Songs" is a late No Wave (or No Wave related) classic. Vinyl or mp3...it's not on CD.

The effort it would take to get Tape #1 isn't worth the result, but anyone interested in non-No New York No Wave might want to check Yo La Tengo's cover of Information's "Let's Compromise" (from New Wave Hot Dogs, I think).

― dlp9001, Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

Where's the Sick Dick and the Volkswagen tracks?

Just kidding, but Chuck was right to recommend the Peripheral Vision comp. I'm a big fan particularly of V-Effect, their tracks on their as well as their LP.

Some other random things to check out?

A Band (on a Homework/Hyped2Death volume, Wharton Tiers doing minimalist rock)

Wharton Tiers and the Glorious Strangers has some good songs.

imPLOG! should be easy now that Erol Alkan (sp?) put it on the Trash comp.

The soundtrack to the film Vortex by Scott and Beth B.

The Noise Fest tapes.

Chinese Puzzle.

more later, probably.

I've never heard Tape #1 though.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

Are there Sick Dick tracks? I haven't been able to find out much at all about that band, other than that they're considered part of the scene.

I do have one impLOG track. No idea where it came from. Shall look for more.

I also have some Lounge Lizards stuff, but I'm having a really hard time seeing how they're in any way no wave, even though I've seen them lumped in a time or two.

These suggestions are awesome. Keep them coming.

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

Also: there's some stuff in my list that's only there because it's related to other stuff. For instance, Sweet Pea Atkinson was a vocalist in Kid Creole & The Coconuts, but his solo album kind of sounds like a Ray Parker, Jr. album or something. Maybe I should take that one off...

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

Walter Steding hasn't been mentioned yet. He was a violinist and has a single and LP on Red Star.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'd also recommend the Love Of Life Orchestra, the first 2 song album w/ Arto and David Byrne on it is really fun, the later mostly live I think lp isn't as good, I think. And of course Arthur Russel fans should check out Peter Gordon's solo record that has him on it.

I've never seen/heard Sick Dick tracks, I think they had something to do with Borbetomagus or however that's spelled.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

Donald Miller was in Sick Dick, along with Brian Doherty. Doherty had a solo single released under the name Secrets of Loveliness that is great. Both sides of it were on one of the Homework comps. Doherty was later in a band called Lhasa Cement Plant, a noise rock improv group who were really good and put out a couple good albums in the nineties. Doug Snyder of the duo Doug Snyder and Bob Thompson was also in Sick Dick.

Lester Bangs played with the group for a gig or two.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

oh man, awesome tim, I didn't know that. Screams Buried in Screeching by Secrets of Loveliness is one of my favorite tracks from Homework. I swear I saw like 20 copies of the single at a local NYC store, one of those stores that still has stock from 20 years ago and thinking "is this or isn't this some weird hyped2death thing?" and couldn't remember. The rest of the collection there's been cleared out by some fellow 7" fans, but I wouldn't be suprised if some of those are still there...

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 5 May 2005 21:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

there was an incarnation of sick dick that played/lived in florida in the early 90s but i have no idea how they were related. i think doug snyder was an honorary member probably... beered in. those guys were drunk constantly. and fighting eachother during everybody else's set. seems like there was an older guy who supposedly was the cred for the band that otherwise just pissed and spit craprock in every direction. maybe doug snyder was in the band. or??
m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 5 May 2005 21:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

PRIMITIVE CALCULATORS!
THE SLUGFUCKERS!

― etc, Thursday, 5 May 2005 21:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

no SPK?

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 5 May 2005 21:58 (5 years ago) Permalink

The Can't Stop It - Australian Postpunk comp has a roster that includes both The Slugfuckers and Primitive Calculators, as well as other bands whose sound recalls no wave more than post punk.

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 May 2005 22:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

It occurred to me that it might be nice to use this thread to post some of the more rare no wave stuff, since so much of it is nearly impossible to track down. So I'll kick it off, and hopefully some of the rest of you will chip in. 'Cuz I want more stuff.

impLOG - "Holland Tunnel Dive"

Red Transistor "We're Not Crazy" and "Not Bite"

Tsk Tsk Tsk - "Nice Noise Theme" and "Rock Song"

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 6 May 2005 19:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

thanks...

and after I paid 35 bucks for my copy of Holland Tunnel Dive!

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 6 May 2005 20:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

Eep! Sorry!

I'm assuming that there was a b-side to "Holland Tunnel Dive". You've at least got that much over me, for what it's worth.

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 6 May 2005 20:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

I was just kidding, I downloaded Holland Tunnel Dive from someone ages ago as well, also after I bought the vinyl. No, it's a beautiful package and I love the song enough that I had to have it. 99% of the music I like I won't pay that kind of money for, it has to be something really special. But yeah, the b-side isn't as good. There's also a 7" that's more rare. I've been begging to reissue it for a few years but someone else was going to maybe do it. If that falls through, I'll still do it if I can.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 6 May 2005 20:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

9 months pass...

ahhh dang it! Too bad those ysi's are expired!!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Thursday, 23 February 2006 09:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's music made by people who hate you.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 23 February 2006 12:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

I didn't know you were in a band Alex?

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 23 February 2006 12:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

Of course! Alex is from NYC! Makes perfect sense!!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Friday, 24 February 2006 04:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

One time only Teenage Jesus & The Jerks reunion at the Knitting Factory in New York, June 13th (without James Chance though. but anyway)

http://www.knittingfactory.com/show.php?event_id=111664

― StanM, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 08:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ah lovely. Who will not reunite these days..?

― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 09:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if Bradley Field will still play "drum".

― sleeve, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 14:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

that might prove a little tricky.

― stirmonster, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wv0PYG1g_iY

― Mark Rich@rdson, Thursday, 27 March 2008 04:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

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