1970-1979 WTF - The Hard 'n' Heavy 'n' Loud + Krautrock, Arty, Noisy, Weird, Funky, Punky Shit - Albums Poll! - VOTING THREAD! Closes Mar 8th 11.59 PM UK Time - All ILXORS/LURKERS WELCOME

anyway take 10 minutes to wonder at the splendor of richard hell before casting yr ballots thx

voted, bare minimum effort, solid gold choices

Got it, thanks!

remember everybody there is the tracks poll that balls started and the viceroy is helping out with Takin' Care of Business: ILX 70s RAWK TRAX VOTING RULES AND CAMPAIGNING THREAD - VOTING THREAD!- Closes Nov 8th 11.59 PM UK Time - All ILXORS/LURKERS WELCOME

Lets try get to 70 ballots for the 70s poll.

Kraan tracks going down well in plug.dj/ilxors and noticed a few votes for em so if anybody wants more info
http://www.allmusic.com/artist/kraan-mn0000102542

will add them to spotify list

Really good and just outside my top 100: Stomu Yamashta, Granicus, Hard Stuff, Blue Phantom, Agitation Free, Masters Apprentices, Erkin Koray, Dust, Debris, Catapilla, Kraan, Le Orme, A.R. & Machines.

from memory i think i made room for that Dust album. it'd be a shame if i cut it.

Ballot it!

Felt bad picking so many already well known albums to be honest but found many hard to overlook. Looking through the nominations list in depth made me think that I've got a lot to benefit from in paying attention to the results and checking out albums I've heard about time and time again but lacked that push to actually go out there and listen to them. I haven't had enough time recently to focus enough on the thread and look into recommendations. I'll make up for that during the results and aftermath hopefully.

Well, I hope lots of people will find lots of new music to enjoy via the results. That is what polls are about for me.

Skot, last night sund4r and I were talking about "musical chops" and weren't really feeling the "american bands lost chops because of punk" narrative (we agreed the UK did fall for that post 76 stuff of manifestos and haircuts were more important than guitar solos and I felt it was more the emergence of Nirvana that did that in the us) but sund4r was also talking about something you said once about how american bands learned their trade in the 60s and early 70s by playing rnb,jazz,blues ,funk covers etc and bands could play a variety of styles. Whilst 80s bands and onwards did not. Could you perhaps expand on your theory here please?

i said it so good the first time though! can't you find that post? but yeah i'd say even into the 80's bands were filled with people who had played for years and played live a lot. which is key. in the 70's a band might get a record deal and everyone in that band had years of experience playing under all kinds of circumstances and in all kinds of situations. tom petty got a record deal with Shelter when he was in his 20's but he had been getting paid for gigs since he had been 14. he played live for years ALL THE TIME. and he didn't record anything other than a 45. now its the reverse. people record tons of material and never play live and they didn't get that kind of foundation. people in punk bands actually come closest to the old days, weirdly enough. tour for years, play a lot, eventually get better at what they do if they are dedicated enough. but even there they are playing mostly simple rock styles for years. a drummer in a 70's hard rock band might have played in 10 previous bands playing soul/r&b/frat rock/jazz/etc before landing a deal. they were pros at a young age.

but a lot of this has to do with gigs drying up. work drying up. studio gigs, live gigs, weddings, parties, all kinds of work. this changes the landscape as much as anything else.

Nope, I didn't know where you posted about it! Dunno what thread it was on.

but thanks for replying!

I know sund4r has thoughts on this and has things to ask you

So you dont think "punk" killed chops then?

even in the 80's the "haircut" new wave bands were filled with pub and bar band vets. dave stewart was an odd new wave fresh face when i first saw a eurythmics video in the 80's, but he had been making rural prog rock years before all that. today he would just be some kid in his room who is still trying to learn how to use a synth. not playing out in bars and frat parties for years beforehand. music is more of an amateur pursuit now in some ways. and more suited for people with the money to mess around at it for no pay. so, its more of an upper/middle class pursuit than it might have been in the past. that's deep theory though, i have no idea if that's true. but its really hard to be poor and learn how to play and make a living at it. it used to be a way out for people.

I dunno Oasis and a bunch of Manchester/liverpool bands managed to do it. Then again mid - late 90s was a strange time in the UK as lots of very ordinary bands could sell a lot of albums and singles and gigs in the UK and be set for life without having to crack the usa.

I'd wager the UK bands who broke the usa in the 70s had to tour like crazy to get a foothold.

But they certainly got great rewards.

Interesting theory. But is it true that fewer bands were gigging in the 80s?

I don't remember if I had any questions about it! I just thought it was an interesting idea. I guess if I had questions, they had to do with whether punk was in fact responsible for any of this at all but you seem to be attributing it to other factors now. (Maybe you did at the time too. It was a while ago.) By the mid-70s, it seems that American AOR bands were already listening to (and probably learning) Zeppelin and Yes instead of all the eclectic things that Zeppelin and Yes listened to. That happened regardless of punk.

seems possible.

I just bought this today. A good number of the bands it covers should show up in the results!

http://static.lulu.com/browse/product_thumbnail.php%3FproductId%3D20512079%26resolution%3D320

Demons, Fairies & Wailing Guitars - The Best 100 Obscure Rock Acts 1968-1976

How obscure are the acts in it?

64 album ballots in, thanks to those who voted since yesterday.

Aguatrubia, Almendra, Amon Duul II, Anonymous, Armageddon (German), Arzachel, Atomic Rooster, The Bachs, Il Balletto Di Bronzo, Bang, Danny Ben Israel, Black Merda, Blue Cheer, Blues Creation, Brainticket, Broselmaschine, Budgie, Buffalo, Bunalim, Burnin Red Ivanhoe, C.A. Quintet, Cactus, Captain Beyond, Cargo, The Churchills/Jericho Jones/Jericho, COB, Comus, Lula Cortes e Ze Ramalho, Cressida, Crucis, Damnation of Adam Blessing, Damon, Darius, De De Lind, Dragonfly, Dust, Far Out, Felt, Flower Travellin' Band, Fraction, Fraser & DeBolt, Freedoms children, Gandalf, Garybaldi, Gila, Gracious, Granicus, The Groundhogs, Group 1850, Hawkwind, Randy Holden, D.R. Hooker, Incredible Hog, It's All Meat, Josefus, Juan De la Cruz Band, Ladies W.C., Leaf Hound, Perry Leopold, Garrett Lund, MC5, Mighty Baby, Modulo 1000, Morgen, Morly Grey, Museo Rosenbach, My Solid Ground, Necronomicon, Nektar, November, Old Man & the Sea, The Open Mind, Orange Wedge, Orang Utan, Pappo's Blues, Pentagram, Linda Perhacs, Phoenix, The Plastic Cloud, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Relatively Clean Rivers, La Revolucion de Emiliano Zapata, Rodriguez, Sir Lord Baltimore, Socrates Drank the Conium, Skip Spence, Steamhammer, Stonehouse, Stone the Crows, Stonewall, Sweet Smoke, T2, Tomorrow, Trees, Twenty Sixty Six & Then, The United States of America, Wishbone Ash, The Wizards from Kansas, Yesterday's Children, Zerfas.

Then there's some entries on albums by bands that went on to be not obscure:
Fleetwood Mac - Then Play On
Free - Tons of Sobs
Grand Funk Railroad - Grand Funk
Scorpions - Lonesome Crow
UFO - Flying

And tons of other lists. Here's one of "Some bands with extensive discography (at least 3 albums) but all you really need is this one amazing album:"

Frijid Pink - Frijid Pink (fuzzed out bluesy hard rock)
Perth Country Conspiracy - Does Not Exist (theatrical folk rock)
Chicken Shack - Imagination Lady (blues rock)
Trapeze - Medusa (hard rock)
Beggar's Opera - Pathfinder (progressive rock)
Lucifer's Friend - Lucifer's Friend (hard rock)
It's a Beautiful Day - It's A Beautiful Day (psychedelia)
Earth & Fire - Earth & Fire (psychedelic progressive rock)
Pescado Rabioso - II (heavy prog)
Audience - House on the Hill (progressive art rock)
Dzyan - electric Silence (krautrock)
Vox Dei - La Biblia (heavy prog)
Meic Stevens - Outlander (folk rock)
Catherine Ribeiro + Alpes - Paix (krautrock-like folk)
Blackfeather - At the Mountains of Madness (heavy prog)
Pop Masina - Kiselina (psychedelic hard rock)
Los Dug Dug's - Smog (heavy prog)
Rita Lee - Hoje e o Primeiro Dia Do Resto De Sua Vida (tropicalia)
The Blue Effect - Meditace (heavy psychedelia)
Alice - Alice (progressive rock)
Spooky Tooth - Spooky Two (soulful blues rock)

haha fleetwood mac were never obscure. They had a #1 in usa and uk when peter green was still the main man

will be balloting in the next day or two...

heh Earth & Fire. Wonder if they wanted to be something else?

btw did you guys know the 1st 2 Earth Wind & Fire albums were actually rock? A lot of bands started out like that. Maybe not heavy rock but still more 'rock' than one would think.
1st EW&F album is really good actually. 2nd is so so.

BTW it's not just a list of course. The entries for each of the hundred bands have plenty of info, along with a band history and summary of key albums, there's often interviews with members. It's 580 pages, and was well worth my ten bucks!

Fleetwood had a U.S. #1 in the 60s? Either way, it's nothing compared to how huge they got with Rumours.

Wow - totally agree with that list - yes, most Lucifer's Friend records post the self-titled are REALLY lacking, but I still have a special place in my heart for 'Banquet' - that's a good 'un ... if ya wanna jazz up the dinner party.

P.S. - you got that author another 10 bux

well last few days for you guys to campaign and try get the last of the voters to fill out their ballot with some of your fave albums. Known or unknown do the campaigning so that people cant use the forgot about them excuse.

Also remember the Spotify playlist http://open.spotify.com/user/pfunkboy/playlist/1rFbtUwZlcYHBD6gcemMeK

best success of poll so far was alerting sund4r to Heldon/Richard Pinhas: S&D !

http://fastnbulbous.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/heldon-stand.jpg

Heldon - Stand By (Egg/Cuneiform, 1979)
I actually haven't listened to this for many years but just found a used copy at Reckless. Until I re-listen, here's some quotes:

Rateyourmusic - "Proto-Om? Probably. At least the title track is. Absolutely glorious sludgy/stoner-metal monster we have here. The rest is a pretty straight combination of prog rock and Tangerine Dream-style arpeggio-heavy synthscapes. Stand By is definitely the stand-out though. Seriously, glory in musical form."

"As good a rock/electronic fusion as any I've heard to date. Don't be surprised if the title track reminds you of stoner metal."

"A complex and intense form of space-electronic frippian (lark`s/starless/red) prog rock."

"Far and away the best Heldon album, Stand By takes Interface's intoxicating mixture of proto-Industrial, Krautrock, mid-1970s King Crimson and a little bit of Zeuhl and melds all the influences on that album into a singular and unique sound. Synthesisers and guitars blare forth and it's hard to tell which of the two are more aggressive, particularly on the standout title track, a dizzying rapid-fire tour through everything that made the band great. Simply put, this is Richard Pinhas' masterpiece, a seamless fusion of the most violent outgrowths of hard rock and electronic music into a nightmarish, unstoppable killing machine. Handle with care, because this one is explosive."

Amazon customers: "If you've looked at my other reviews of Heldon's CDs, you'll notice that it's too easy to point out the musical references contained in their work. That's certainly the case here, however, it is with Stand By that I realized why Heldon truly stands out as a stalwart of musical experimentalism in the 1970s. Heldon so successfully blends and incorporates the influential, innovative and original music of its time that it single-handedly expresses the musical freedom and boundary-pushing that thrived during this much maligned time. You'll hear elements of "Berlin school" electronics (ala Michael Hoenig and Tangerine Dream), jazz fusion (ala Patrick Moraz during his Yes period), hard rock chord changes straight out of Atomic Rooster and blistering guitar solos that reference everything from Jimi Hendrix to Robert Fripp in his King Crimson days. But you'll also hear something no one else ever gave you; and that is Heldon's own sound. No matter how much, "this part sounds like you-know-who" is going on in your mind, there is also always a part of you saying, "yeah, but it sounds like no one else" at the same time.

And so, Stand By (recorded in 1978) has to be hailed as Heldon's signature work. It contains everything that is good about Heldon, all of its musical references and all of its originality. It is Heldon in its mature glory and no other band I can think of so convincingly toed the line between electronic and progressive rock. Progressive rock drums, bass and guitar blend and merge with bass synthesizer pulses and arpeggios; jazz keyboard solos ride overtop jittery electronic sequences; compositions move from dark moody electronic soundscapes to frantic, pulsing rhythms and then transform into improvisational jams or spacey laid-back passages embellished with slithering, smoking guitar solos. If Un Reve Sans Consequence is Heldon at its most experimental and aggressively original, this is Heldon at their most focused and purely stated.

Stand By is outstanding document of all that happened in the 1970s. It is compelling and oh, so satisfying. This is Heldon at its very best and you owe it to yourself to hear it."

"This album is entirely without peer. "Bolero" is hands-down one of the two or three best pieces of electronic music ever released. Heldon is the most underrated pioneer band of all time; it's a travesty that tinky-tinky noodlers like Kraftwerk are universally known while Heldon languishes in obscurity. "Interface" and "Stand By," the last two releases under the name Heldon (Richard Pinhas' solo releases are only non-Heldon in name) are stunningly, boldly, unapologetically and aggressively *electronic music*; not ordinary music with obtrusively analog waveforms, but genuine explorations of a new and powerful medium. "Stand By" sounds no more dated than Bach. While other synth acts were doing gee-whiz material and even ELP would use sounds that sounded merely weird, Heldon was composing within the new potentials.

Play this! Listen! If you're not moved and stunned you should stick to mainstream music, which this emphatically is not."

Great album. Maybe even better than Interface?

i just voted. now leave me alone.

ok but did you vote in trax poll

yes. raus!

voted. Kind of thrown together, but I tried to keep it varied, also made me realise how few of the nommed bands I knew about!

By the mid-70s, it seems that American AOR bands were already listening to (and probably learning) Zeppelin and Yes instead of all the eclectic things that Zeppelin and Yes listened to. That happened regardless of punk.

Actually, this relates to another reason why the idea of punk killing prog seems really dubious to me, even in the terms you mentioned (less of an underground, fewer newer prog bands, older prog bands scoring with AOR hits instead of prog epics): by the mid-70s, progressive/freeform FM radio had already been moving to the more rigid AOR format and I don't see that punk rock had much to do with this trend. (Corporate dominance of radio, yes.) While "Close to the Edge" received airplay in 1972, it seems like it would have been more difficult in 1977. What was taking its place was more likely Boston and Foreigner than the Sex Pistols or X-Ray Spex.

I think in the end we end up with the same conclusion! UK is different however. Music press wise it was very different and punk was the reason. But that only really affected "indie" music. Not metal, not mainstream rock. You didn't see jazz getting slagged off for being too flashy (not a great example as jazz was not a big selling genre) but look at electronic music - you never see criticism for too complicated programming (ok maybe Autechre) but in say - pop music - noone complains about producers being aesome or technically brilliant. So why rock/guitar music? Even drummers get a pass in rock bands. Why does guitar get all the abuse?

Im not explaining myself very well so hopefully somebody will translate it for you and run with it!

My perception of this - and remember I wasn't born when punk hit & don't really care about it - is that punk writers weren't against chops per se but a perceived elevation of chops above other elements they held to be more inportant. Like they all still loved soul & stuff, right? And there was acceptable prog (from Germany). So the "chops = bad" orthodoxy was a necessary (to them) corrective for bands who were *only* about that (i guess they would argue that even jazz has other priorities than skill, viz emotional connection, politics, &c - and they would have made a qualitative distinction too, that jazz was just *better* than prog). Idk. I like some prog and a lot if chopsy music but I think the punk rhetoric in the uk wasn't a bad thing.

*of, obv. Phone/pub innit.

One thing I disliked about metal for instance in the 80s were peoples insistence that "you must like them so and so is an amazing guitarist and the stuff you like dude cant even play" so i totally get that point. (it still existed every single ocean colour scene fan said the same fucking thing, same for pink floyd "dave gilmour is amazing how can you not like it")

But it really did become more than that. But like mark s and rockism on ilm ended up far away from what he meant.

2 days to go

PLEASE READ ALL OF THE BELOW BEFORE VOTING

You can vote for a minimum of 20 and maximum of 100 albums, But you CANNOT VOTE FOR MORE THAN 3 ALBUMS BY THE ONE BAND UNLESS YOU FILL OUT A FULL BALLOT OF 100 THEN THERE IS NO LIMITS

You can choose to submit a weighted, unweighted or split ballot. Points will be assigned as follows: Weighted: 1st choice (top of the ballot) 260 points, then 245, 235, 225, 220, 215, 210, 205, 200, 195, 190, 188, 186, 184 and so on down to 2 points for 100th place. Unweighted: Every choice gets 113 points. Split: The top portion is treated as a weighted ballot and the remaining potential points total is divided equally among the bottom portion.

But It would be good if those who don't want to rank a full ballot would still rank the top 10 or 20 then do a split unranked ballot rather than pure unweighted.
It's entirely up to you but It's helpful for avoiding ties and the top albums deserves the points. So please try and rank part of your ballot. You know it looks better when albums have a #1.

Some may want to just vote for the heaviest or 'rockingest' tracks. They may wish to vote in the style of the 80s poll. Or you may just simply want to vote for your favourite albums in the list. It's entirely up to you. Just vote please!

Please make sure you copy and paste your selections directly from the following spreadsheet: ALBUMS: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AumbddEHET5xdEZaQ0paMUZpNEdGeUdRSGRTY3BfV2c

Here is the voting form
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dEN3MGdQQkdWWUtsM19SYlZ0UTdzQkE6MQ

There is also a Spotify Albums Playlist please subscribe to it. Not everything is on Spotify though.

Voting Closes MARCH 8th 11.59 PM UK Time

Ra'anan, the author of the Demons, Fairies & Wailing Guitars book said he will try to submit a ballot if work/time allows. I was up late last night reading it and scrambling for albums.

I've been enjoying these so far, and have been nominated:

Armageddon - Armageddon (1970)
Modulo 1000 - Não Fale Com Paredes (1970)
Black Merda - Black Merda (1970)
Josefus - s/t (1970) - I prefer Dead Man, which wasn't nominated

These were not nominated. Love the album art for this:
Garybaldi - Nuda (1972)

http://fastnbulbous.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/garybaldi-nuda-front.jpg
http://fastnbulbous.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/garybaldi-nuda-back.jpg

Socrates Drank The Conium - On The Wings (1973)
Nektar - A Tab In The Ocean (1972) - I had the first one, Journey To The Center of the Eye for years, and kept forgetting to track down the others.
Cargo - Cargo (1972)
Los Dug Dug's - Smog (1972)
Stonehouse - Stonehouse Creek (1971)

Still have to hear My Solid Ground, Incredible Hog, The Bachs and others.

OK, I'm confused. On the voting form it says this: "ALBUMS: You may not vote for more than three albums by a single artist. Any additional votes will be ignored." No mention is made of whether this changes depending on the size of your ballot. However, I thought AG said that if you submit a full ballot, you can vote for as many albums as you want. Can you clarify, AG?

(because I've got five Led Zeppelin albums in my top 40.)