Which film critics do you trust (if any?)

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But depending on the show you're talking about, it's not just the show itself, but the extra features that lend insight into the creative process, talk about the history of the show, etc., etc. The Simpsons DVD sets are the ne plus ultra of this, IMO.

phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Ilxors are the kind of people who'd make other friends (assuming they have other friends) run to the DVD store to catch up on what they've been prattling about.

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link

I have no idea what that means and I don't buy your YSI culture.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:05 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't really know if that's always the case, Phil D. We have to include Bonus Features discs with the last disc of episodes in rentals, because most people do not give a shit.

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:05 (eighteen years ago) link

"every theme and plot point being presented explicitly (thru dialogue or action)"

cos without dialogue or action, you have something like an empty screen.

...

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Really? Because, I mean . . . really? Huh. But, well, in the specific case of the Simpsons, every episode, through seven seasons of DVDs now, has a commentary which includes the producers, artists, episode directors, voice talents, etc. If you're into that sort of thing, it's very illuminating.

I can't imagine just renting the show for the show itself. Weird.

phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Not to mention people that buy the DVDs of every cartoon ever shown on Adult Swim, including Futurama and Family Guy. Oh yeah, and Arrested Development, which people apparently only really watch on dvd.

mike h. (mike h.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Even a door opening and closing for 3 hours straight is an action explicitly depicting a plot. I know you only acknowledge in film discussions the existance of Eric, jaymc, and Alfred, each a fine gentleman of course, but if you're going to revive threads and try to engage discussions--and then complain Kate-style about how people didn't follow your script--it'd do you well to make any attempt to actually engage with the people talking to you, Morbius, and stop insulting them. Even if they're "idiots" like enrique, blount, or myself.

Now plz to continue blatantly ignoring everything I say and making snarky comments elsewhere, it silently entertains several people and quite frakly me at this point.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Futurama and Family Guy were cancelled until they came out on DVD, weren't they? Maybe Futurama was never actually revived into a new series.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:14 (eighteen years ago) link

"every theme and plot point being presented explicitly (thru dialogue or action)"
cos without dialogue or action, you have something like an empty screen.

...

-- Dr Morbius (wjwe...), April 13th, 2006.

oh! the pwnage!

how to come back, i just don't know...

enrique's wounded pride, Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't imagine just renting the show for the show itself. Weird.

Is it really that weird? The only TV I watch is music videos (or stations I wish were playing music videos), so if I do bother to watch a show, it's through DVD. Admittedly I get to see them for free, but it's a lot more enjoyable than waiting once a week to catch a show with ads. People also get to see another episode immediately on the same disc. I assume it's more popular to watch shows on DVD than on TiVo.

x-post Family Guy is kind of the classic example (Though adult swim helped too)

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, Futurama never came back, but the DVDs allowed them to get out several episodes that never aired on FOX thanks to their dumbass scheduling. Great DVDs, too, since showrunner/writer David X. Cohen is a nerd extraordinaire who delights in explaining all the physics, math and computer science jokes that eluded about 90% of the audience.

phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm pretty sure '24' continues on the air only partially because of the pretty good ratings. it's mostly because of the DVD sales and the overseas success.

gear (gear), Thursday, 13 April 2006 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link

and i've only seen 'goodbye, dragon inn' by Tsai ming-Liang, which i thought was as good a film as i've seen in the past few years. much like 'once upon a time in the west', it moved by swiftly in what seemed to be half the running time, despite (perhaps because of?) the slow pace.

gear (gear), Thursday, 13 April 2006 15:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Dave Thomas' writes in such, lovely, irony aware, self concicously dazzling prose, that i am seduced to agreeing w. him, and never sure i really do. A perfect example is his last two ppghs of his review of the new anthology of american film writing published by the Library of America, speaking of said, has anyone read the anthology?

anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 13 April 2006 15:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Thomson, sorry

and while we are at it, go read Ebert on BI:2

anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 13 April 2006 15:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I like Thomson a lot, but he's one of those nostalgists we attacked upthread. The sentimentality with which he couches some of his most trenchant writing (in his recent The Whole Equation he can't resist wearing sackcloth when the careers of Erich von Stroheim and Griffith are discussed, and he latches on to Nicole Kidman as if she was the Carole Lombard or Gloria Grahame of our time ) makes him a woozy read.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 April 2006 16:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Tsai ming-Liang has interested me since the first feature, with the bad plumbing, odd musicality and the queer James Dean/Sal Mineo presence of Lee Kang-Sheng, but really hit his stride with The River (bottoming out with family despair) and then What Time Is It There? -- hopeful, generous, the family gone global and beyond death. And this new one's got watermelons and porn.

Nicole Kidman is great in The Portrait of a Lady.

See the Seitz blog link comments for multiple angles on TV, film, distribution.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 April 2006 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Vive L'Amour was a little bleak!

sleep (sleep), Thursday, 13 April 2006 16:31 (eighteen years ago) link

not compared to The River!

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 April 2006 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link

The second half of the G. Cheshire interview, on nonfiction, indie distrib and his own doc feature:

http://mattzollerseitz.blogspot.com/2006/04/cinema-dead-and-alive-interview-with_15.html


"...The rise of documentaries is related to the decline of European auteurs, and the failure of significant American auteurs to arise from and remain in the independent world in very significant numbers. If you look at the whole Sundance phenomenon, there was such promise there, but while you’ve got a few interesting directors coming up, most of them just go on to the majors or whatever. In the past, people would go to the independent theaters and art theaters for foreign films, and specifically the great tradition of European films. That has dried up."

Also, Seitz quotes Dave Kehr in the Comments: "In other words, ‘straight-to-video’ once meant ‘not good enough to be shown in theaters.’ Now it means ‘too good to be shown in theaters.’ That’s the reality.”

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 17 April 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago) link

he latches on to Nicole Kidman as if she was the Carole Lombard or Gloria Grahame of our time

this is only wrong insofar as the studio/star system that made grahame/lombard possible died 45 years ago; but kidman is certainly 'as good'.

25 yr old slacker cokehead (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 13:37 (eighteen years ago) link

The studio system would never have allowed her to make The Hours>, in which she was frowsy and badly directed. Her frostiness needs special tending.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 13:45 (eighteen years ago) link

well, no, because the studio system wouldn't have made a film involving lesbianism, modernism, or aids.

the studios were quite happy to let them make lots of basically quite similar films though, cos that's how genres work. there's something to be said for it, i guess, but not that much.

25 yr old slacker cokehead (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 13:48 (eighteen years ago) link

"In other words, ‘straight-to-video’ once meant ‘not good enough to be shown in theaters.’ Now it means ‘too good to be shown in theaters.’ That’s the reality.”

Ignoring for a moment that 'straight-to-video' still pretty much means the former -- it's still largely a ghetto for no- to mid-budget genre stuff by nobodies and for stuff that didn't get picked up by distributors -- what he's leaving out is the potential it has to increase the audience for this stuff. Twenty five years ago, people who didn't have access to indie/arthouse/repertory/etc. theaters would never, ever, ever get to see these movies. Now they might be able to get it off of Netflix or at Hollywood Video or what have you, if the movies are properly advertised, marketed, reviewed, etc. (The potential for reviews by key critics increases, too, if they don't have to wait for a screening that might never happen but can review from wherever they happen to be via DVD.)

All that, too, is eliding the fact that a lot of these movies are far, far, far from "too good" for theaters or anyplace else. Sturgeon's Law, etc.

phil d. (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link

(The potential for reviews by key critics increases, too, if they don't have to wait for a screening that might never happen but can review from wherever they happen to be via DVD.)

that's interesting. in the uk lots of films get a nominal theatre release just so the film will get reviewed: my hunch is no-one bothers to review dtv stuff unless the marketing dept gets their act together.

25 yr old slacker cokehead (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 13:56 (eighteen years ago) link

well, no, because the studio system wouldn't have made a film involving lesbianism, modernism, or aids.

The studio system would definitely have made a film in which AIDS is barely mentioned and the lesbianism is "tasteful" (see The Children's Hour)

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 14:00 (eighteen years ago) link

exactly!

25 yr old slacker cokehead (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 14:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Re: Carole Lombard > Nicole Kidman: The Hours = Vigil In The Night.

This looks like a terrific fite, I wish I had got in earlier. On the TV / Cinema ?Mobile Phone debate, I think that certain media tend towards certain shot choices (TV is almost by nature more close up friendly) but this does not apropos lead to firm TV / Cinema / Mobile Phone / Play aesthetic choices when it comes to storytelling. Nevertheless, the play - cinema/TV dynamic does lead to certain ways of telling a story which cannot be done easily on stage (time lapse, multiple viewpoints, close-up) which can influence the semantic language of the presentation.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Right, but The Hours is part of that tradition (which I forgot to mention in my last post)

xpost

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 14:15 (eighteen years ago) link

loosely, maybe, i dunno; i *do* know that 'the hours' could never have been made under the studio system, even if it has affinities with older films.

25 yr old slacker cokehead (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 14:18 (eighteen years ago) link

All that, too, is eliding the fact that a lot of these movies are far, far, far from "too good" for theaters

But those aren't the ones he's talking about. That Assayas' Clean -- an English language film, with 2 different types of 'names' in Maggie Cheung and Nick Nolte -- took THREE YEARS to get distributed here is a scandal.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 15:04 (eighteen years ago) link

two months pass...
three months pass...
Dennis Lim and Michael Atkinson let go from Village Voice. Can J. Hoberman be far behind?

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 9 October 2006 05:08 (seventeen years ago) link

you wanna really be sad, click on all the alt-weekly logos at the bottom of this page. first of all you get the cookie-cutter websites; then click on the movie reviews. looks like l.a. weekly got to keep its own critics (must have been a deal someone worked out once upon a time), but pretty much everyone else is using the same rotation. and why pay for, i don't know, 7 critics when you can make do with 3 or 4?

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 9 October 2006 05:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh I know. I used to freelance (occasionally) for one of those alt-weeklies. Not that I particularly enjoyed the experience, truth be told, but I did see a lot more movies those years.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 9 October 2006 05:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Roger Ebert's religiosity makes him a sucker for movies with any sort of redemption theme, so we part ways a lot there, but he does have a pretty good nose for what's fun in the action/adventure genre. He genuinely loves movies and doesn't affect curmudgeonly disapproval like every reviewer who's ever written for the New Yorker. Not that it isn't rewarding to read A.L. taking down some piece 'o shite in his inimitable snotball style.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 9 October 2006 12:39 (seventeen years ago) link

if Leonard Maltin hates it, I trust that I will find it enjoyable, and vice versa.

autovac (autovac), Monday, 9 October 2006 14:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know, Beth. "Curmudgeonly" is the last adverb I'd use to describe Pauline Kael, Michael Sragow, Terence Rafferty, and (especially) Anthony Lane.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 9 October 2006 14:58 (seventeen years ago) link

that's fucked about atkinson and lim. i'm not a major fan of theirs but you don't need a weatherman to, etc.

benrique (Enrique), Monday, 9 October 2006 17:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I only trust Christopher Mulrooney.
http://www.imdb.com/user/ur0945281/comments?order=alpha

theodore (herbert hebert), Monday, 9 October 2006 18:09 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm sort of sad for some of my friends who were invited to the "Take #" poll in the last couple years, as it's hard to imagine it will actually be held given how many of the film critics involved aren't working film critics anymore. (Maybe I exaggerate, though. It was mostly New Times editors and I think basically all of them still have jobs.)

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 9 October 2006 19:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Hoberman stays on as the token 'name.' He's one of the ones getting syndicated all over hell and back.

I'm not sure how the syndication model works for New Times - I can read most of next week's Dallas Observer reviews today on the Voice site. If I don't need to pick up their paper, how's that going to effect their hooker-ad sales?

milo z (mlp), Monday, 9 October 2006 19:47 (seventeen years ago) link

three months pass...
There is a blog devoted to parsing Armond, right or wrong:

http://armonddangerous.blogspot.com/

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:28 (seventeen years ago) link

that better-than list was pretty interesting. maybe i have start paying attention to this dude again.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

if only it didn't have white text over black, this could be the next Fire Joe Morgan

milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

i think every other armond white review has a line where he does a horrible pun on the movie's title. "This movie is an example of (x). Call it: 'De-Volver'". or something

‘•’u (gear), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link

"Oliver Stone's film was a great act of empathy and facilitated catharsis. Those who saw it were healed..."

‘•’u (gear), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link

oh god i clicked on a film thread

tony conrad schnitzler (sanskrit), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

This is splendid:

And we'll never know -- unless he chooses to elaborate on it elsewhere or at some late date -- what exactly Armond means when he describes Children of Men's aesthetic as "resembling the surreally distanced, uninterrupted viewpoint of a videogame." Which videogames? Certainly not first-person shooter videogames (which Elephant mimics at one moment in order to make a connection to the fps games the teenage killers play at home) because the film's celebrated long takes are not pov shots. The long takes' panoptical surveys -- with action occurring on multiple planes and often disappearing beyond the scope of the lens -- would only resemble videogame aesthetics for the most unsophisticated and -- dare we say -- cynical viewer. For one thing, the moviegoer cannot interact with the image in the same way a videogame player can -- an obvious point that White conveniently ignores. For another, the film maintains spatial integrity in presenting and exploring its realistic environments, an integrity that stands in sharp contrast to the comic book nonsense of V for Vendetta, the film that Armond White compares to Children of Men without properly explaining thier distinctions.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 22:48 (seventeen years ago) link


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