1970-1979 WTF - The Hard 'n' Heavy 'n' Loud + Krautrock, Arty, Noisy, Weird, Funky, Punky Shit - Albums Poll! - VOTING THREAD! Closes Mar 8th 11.59 PM UK Time - All ILXORS/LURKERS WELCOME

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No Talking Heads in this?

big firework, Monday, 4 February 2013 21:39 (eleven years ago) link

Voted. That was fucking difficult.

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 4 February 2013 21:44 (eleven years ago) link

n/m the above... just realized how this works with the nomination thread and stuff.

big firework, Monday, 4 February 2013 21:57 (eleven years ago) link

yeah we held that last year and started the voting but then postponed it for a few months. It gives everyone a chance to check out the nominations.
8th march is probably going to be the closing date but it can be extended if people ask.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 5 February 2013 00:16 (eleven years ago) link

If you've already voted aaaaaaaaages ago, do you need to vote again? That'd be a pain

Greatjon, Tuesday, 5 February 2013 00:49 (eleven years ago) link

no need to vote again, your ballot persists

questino (seandalai), Tuesday, 5 February 2013 00:50 (eleven years ago) link

cheers for thread title change jjj!

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 5 February 2013 15:07 (eleven years ago) link

thanks for the new ballots unfortunately you dont get auto replies but if you post here that you voted then seandalai or i can confirm it!

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 5 February 2013 16:53 (eleven years ago) link

the Takin' Care of Business: ILX 70s RAWK TRAX VOTING RULES AND CAMPAIGNING THREAD - VOTING THREAD!- Closes Nov 8th 11.59 PM UK Time - All ILXORS/LURKERS WELCOME has been taken over by viceroy as balls doesnt have the time. Remember to vote there!

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 5 February 2013 17:20 (eleven years ago) link

btw it closes MARCH 8th too same as this poll

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 5 February 2013 17:34 (eleven years ago) link

thanks to todays voters. they went through

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 5 February 2013 22:45 (eleven years ago) link

another overnight, thanks!

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, 6 February 2013 14:15 (eleven years ago) link

i need to do mine. I forgot I hadnt voted

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 7 February 2013 01:19 (eleven years ago) link

still need to do it

acid metrics or edward iii or stirmonster are you gonna campaign?

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 16:12 (eleven years ago) link

Wish sonic youth had a 70s album then we might get more chat on this thread!!

imago come talk prog!

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 16:53 (eleven years ago) link

Spotify albums playlist http://open.spotify.com/user/pfunkboy/playlist/1rFbtUwZlcYHBD6gcemMeK

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 17:17 (eleven years ago) link

was the 70s the first real decade of rock critics? Is that when they became a big deal?

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 17:49 (eleven years ago) link

heh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_journalism

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 17:50 (eleven years ago) link

Popular music

Music writers only started "treating pop and rock music seriously" in 1964 "after the breakthrough of the Beatles...".[3] One of the early music magazines in Britain, Melody Maker, complained in 1967 about how "newspapers and magazines are continually hammering [i.e., attacking] pop music".[4] Melody Maker magazine advocated the new forms of pop music of the late 1960s. "By 1999, the 'quality' press was regularly carrying reviews of popular music gigs and albums", which had a "key role in keeping pop" in the public eye. As more pop music critics began writing, this had the effect of "legitimating pop as an art form"; as a result, "newspaper coverage shifted towards pop as music rather than pop as social phenomenon".[5]

Steve Jones claims that both popular music articles and academic articles about pop music are usually written from "masculine subject positions". As more pop music critics began writing, this had the effect of "legitimating pop as an art form"; as a result, "newspaper coverage shifted towards pop as music rather than pop as social phenomenon";[6] as well, in the way that critics differentiate between pop music and rock, using terms like "trivial", "fluffy", or "formulaic" for pop (versus "serious", "raw", and "sincere" for rock), there is an implicit or even explicitly gendered dichotomy.[7] Simon Frith notes that pop and rock music are closely associated with gender; that is, with conventions of male and female behaviour.[8]

In the world of pop music criticism, there tends to be a quick turnover. The "pop music industry expects that any particular [music critic] star can disappear within five years; in contrast, the "stars" of rock criticism are more likely to have long careers with "book contracts, featured columns, and editorial and staff positions at magazines and newspapers. Critic Robert Christgau was the "originator of the 'consumer guide' approach to pop music reviews", an approach to writing pop recording reviews that was designed to help consumers to decide whether to buy a new album.[9]

In the realm of rock music (as indeed in that of classical music),[10] critics have not always been respected by their subjects. Frank Zappa declared that, "Most rock journalism is people who can't write, interviewing people who can't talk, for people who can't read." In the Guns N' Roses song "Get in the Ring", Axl Rose verbally attacked critics who gave the band negative reviews because of their actions on stage; such critics as Andy Secher, Mick Wall and Bob Guccione, Jr. were mentioned by name.
US music writer Robert Christgau was one of the first rock critics in the 1960s.

Carl Wilson describes "an upsurge in pro-pop sentiment among critics" during the early 2000s, a "new generation [of music critics] moved into positions of critical influence" and then "mounted a wholesale critique against the syndrome of measuring all popular music by the norms of rock culture."[11] In 2008, Ann Powers of the LA Times argued that "[p]op music critics have always been contrarians", because "pop music [criticism] rose up as a challenge to taste hierarchies, and has remained a pugilistic, exhibitionist business throughout pop's own evolution."[12]

Powers claims that "[i]nsults, rejections of others' authority, bratty assertions of superior knowledge and even threats of physical violence are the stuff of which pop criticism is made"; at the same time, the "best [pop criticism] also offers loving appreciation and profound insights about how music creates and collides with our everyday realities." She states that pop criticism developed as a "slap at the establishment, at publications such as the hippie homestead Rolling Stone and the rawker outpost Creem." She notes that the "1980s generation" of post-punk indie rockers "has lately [i.e., in the 2000s] been taken down by younger "poptimists," who argue that lovers of underground rock are elitists for not embracing the more multicultural mainstream". Powers claims that with the 2000s-era "poptimism" critical approach, debates about bands and styles are "like the scrum in rugby", because "[e]verybody pushes against everybody else, and we move forward in a huge blob of vehement opinion and mutual judgment".[12]

Slate magazine writer Jody Rosen discussed the 2000s-era trends in pop music criticism in the article "The Perils of Poptimism". Rosen notes that much of the debate is centred over the perception that that rock critics "...regard rock as "normative … the standard state of popular music … to which everything else is compared."[13] At a 2006 pop critic conference, attendees discussed their "...guilty pop pleasures, reconsidering musicians (Tiny Tim, Dan Fogelberg, Phil Collins) and genres (blue-eyed soul, Muzak)" which rock critics have long dismissed as lightweight, commercial music. Rosen states that "this new critical paradigm" is called "popism"—or, more evocatively (and goofily), "poptimism". The "poptimism" approach states that "Pop (and, especially, hip-hop) producers are as important as rock auteurs, Beyoncé is as worthy of serious consideration as Bruce Springsteen, and ascribing shame to pop pleasure is itself a shameful act".[14] In 2006, Martin Edlund from the New York Sun argued that music bloggers are to some degree displacing newspaper and magazine-based pop music critics. Edlund notes that while the "Internet has democratized music criticism, it seems it's also spread its penchant for uncritical hype".[15]

So it all started with the beatles then?

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 17:51 (eleven years ago) link

Powers claims that "[i]nsults, rejections of others' authority, bratty assertions of superior knowledge and even threats of physical violence are the stuff of which pop criticism is made"; at the same time, the "best [pop criticism] also offers loving appreciation and profound insights about how music creates and collides with our everyday realities." She states that pop criticism developed as a "slap at the establishment, at publications such as the hippie homestead Rolling Stone and the rawker outpost Creem." She notes that the "1980s generation" of post-punk indie rockers "has lately [i.e., in the 2000s] been taken down by younger "poptimists," who argue that lovers of underground rock are elitists for not embracing the more multicultural mainstream". Powers claims that with the 2000s-era "poptimism" critical approach, debates about bands and styles are "like the scrum in rugby", because "[e]verybody pushes against everybody else, and we move forward in a huge blob of vehement opinion and mutual judgment".[12]

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 17:55 (eleven years ago) link

how dare critics like 'rawk' eh? to me that signifies the exact sort of elitist bs that the pop critics complain about with rock crits.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 18:12 (eleven years ago) link

The idea that you have to like one to the exclusion of the other seems awfully outdated. However it seems it was a big issue even in 1969.

Last week I was looking for Philip Cato's book Crash Course for the Ravers; a Glam Odyssey (1997), but it's out of print. Instead I bought Goodbye Mickey Finn for just $.99. Since it was so cheap, I thought it was just short-story length, but it's actually 446 pages! It's like a meta-autobiography where Cato writes as Finn writing a diary, starting in 1969 several months before he bumps into Marc Bolan at a pub and eventually becomes a member of T. Rex. It covers everything from mundane daily activities to what he reads in the newspaper and bands he sees live and his relationship with his live-in girlfriend, and eventually his own gigs and recording sessions, photo shoots and making a movie with Ringo. It seems all the shows, lineups and dates really happened, with Cato exhaustively researching on the level of George Gimarc's Punk Diaries. I thought it could be boring and it might be for some, but there's plenty of hilarious bits, drugs and groupie sex to spice it up. So one of the things that struck me was the distinctly vicious backlash Finn supposedly experienced before T. Rex were even successful, even when they were still Tyranosaurus Rex.

He spent a lot of time going to free festivals and shows in the Ladbroke Grove hippie scene with The Edgar Broughton Band, Pink Fairies and such, and Finn and Bolan were tagged as sellouts, selling out the hippie ideals. Partly because Bolan fired Steve Took who had a lot of friends in that scene, and Finn was perceived as "stealing" his gig even though he told Bolan no several times at first as he didn't even consider himself a musician. And the other issue was they had started recording "pop" songs like "Ride A White Swan" and "Hot Love" and performing on TV, and eventually incorporating *gasp* electric instruments. It sounds like a precursor to the indie vs. mainstream debates of the 80s, 90s and beyond. There's a long list of bands he references, many of which are in this poll. Well worth the dollar!

Fastnbulbous, Saturday, 9 February 2013 18:26 (eleven years ago) link

The idea that you have to like one to the exclusion of the other seems awfully outdated. However it seems it was a big issue even in 1969.

Still is, esp on ILM. Just look at eoy poll threads and the distaste for music that places.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 19:36 (eleven years ago) link

Going to start on my ballot. Going to have to be strict and limit it to 1 album per band.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 19:59 (eleven years ago) link

I'm insufficiently hardnheavynloud for this poll but I think I'll vote anyway. One thing: the spreadsheet has "Roxy Music - Roxy Music" and "Roxy Music - s/t" as separate entries

On Being Blue (Da Ba Dee): A Philosophical Inquiry (wins), Saturday, 9 February 2013 20:28 (eleven years ago) link

oh I should probably do this

Thomas Puncheon (imago), Saturday, 9 February 2013 22:49 (eleven years ago) link

yes you should. Lots of albums you need to check out. Especially things like Flower Travellin Band and Be Bop Deluxe. They are right up your alley.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 23:32 (eleven years ago) link

man which Neu! to choose?

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 23:32 (eleven years ago) link

this is hard. Might have to do 2 Funkadelic and 2 King Crimson because there's 2 albums of each I cannot choose between. Managed to choose a pink fairies album cuz I think my fave album of theirs is a bit different to what others think.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Saturday, 9 February 2013 23:45 (eleven years ago) link

ok now to cut the longlist down to 100. Then to decide whether to do weighted, split or unweighted.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Sunday, 10 February 2013 00:11 (eleven years ago) link

this is tough. might rank top 50 then do rest unweighted

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Sunday, 10 February 2013 01:58 (eleven years ago) link

and I did so

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Sunday, 10 February 2013 03:41 (eleven years ago) link

Sunday would be a great day to start your ballot.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Sunday, 10 February 2013 15:21 (eleven years ago) link

think we have 19 ballots for albums so please vote!

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Sunday, 10 February 2013 20:01 (eleven years ago) link

This poll (POLL 1971: Scaruffi's top 20 albums of that year) prompted me to take a look at Scaruffi's all-time rock list. A good proportion were 70s albums. Faust and Pere Ubu will probably do well in this poll too.

01. Robert Wyatt: Rock Bottom
02. Faust: Faust I
03. Popol Vuh: Hosianna Mantra
04. Pere Ubu: Modern Dance
05. John Fahey: Fare Forward Voyagers
06. Nico: Desert Shore
07. Tim Buckley: Lorca
08. Klaus Schulze: Irrlicht
09. Neu!: self-titled
10. Suicide: self-titled
11. Residents: Not Available
12. Pop Group: Y
13. Third Ear Band: self-titled
14. Soft Machine: 3
15. Gong: Flying Teapot

Fastnbulbous, Monday, 11 February 2013 05:31 (eleven years ago) link

I was kind of annoyed the deadline for this was radically extended after I submitted a ballot, since it meant I could have held off and tried to list to more, but the truth is I haven't been much in the mood for this sort of music, so it doesn't really matter. (And I am talking about it why? Maybe because it's almost time to go to bed and catch up on sleep.)

_Rudipherous_, Monday, 11 February 2013 05:36 (eleven years ago) link

It's still okay to resubmit my ballot if I voted during the first push for this poll, right?

Non-Stop Erotic Calculus (bmus), Monday, 11 February 2013 17:13 (eleven years ago) link

Yeah, you can just submit a new one.

brogue element (seandalai), Monday, 11 February 2013 17:14 (eleven years ago) link

yeah what seandalai says

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 12 February 2013 19:19 (eleven years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/9Zpk09y.gif?1

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 12 February 2013 21:41 (eleven years ago) link

seandalai how many album ballots do we have? (minus the 1st ballots of those resubmitting)

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, 13 February 2013 00:34 (eleven years ago) link

Fastnbulbous: lol I have always referred to you as the American Scaruffi, since you both have a tendency to make lengthy rankings based on year

Rudipherous: I'm not entirely sure if this is up your alley, but have you checked out the Las Grecas record I nominated? Awesome psych-salsa. I've been listening to their best of on Spotify for the last couple days, so rad.

Drugs A. Money, Wednesday, 13 February 2013 07:59 (eleven years ago) link

Glad to finally get my ballot finished/sent, couldn't believe some of the great records I ended up having to leave off.

Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 13 February 2013 09:56 (eleven years ago) link

It was worse for the 80s poll as the ballot was only 50

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, 13 February 2013 14:35 (eleven years ago) link

thanks for voting btw!

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, 13 February 2013 19:33 (eleven years ago) link

I think we have 20 album ballots but not sure because of a few resubmitted ballots plus its kinda hard to work it out due to the way the s/sheet is formatted

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 14 February 2013 01:34 (eleven years ago) link

Filling out my ballot for this poll got me to finally check out Slade and holy cow I think I'm in love.

brimstead, Thursday, 14 February 2013 04:59 (eleven years ago) link

is there a consensus on best Slade album?

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 14 February 2013 18:02 (eleven years ago) link

xp I only wish I could be as prolific like Scaruffi who's published a shit-ton of books. I should read one someday.

Speaking of books, I came across this passage while on the train this morning, 83% into Goodbye Mickey Finn. He's on tour in Japan:

31st October 1973
...On the bed isa package courtesy of EMI Japan. There's a selection of our albums; top quality vinyl housed in shiny cardboard covers, Japanese script alongside the more familiar English words, which seems weird to me, as if somehow the songs are going to sound different. Also enclosed are a selection of LPs by Japanese rock bands with crazy names such as Flower Travelin' Band (the cover of which features the band stark bollock naked speeding down the highway on a set of choppers straight out of Easy Rider), Far Out and my personal favourite, Masahiko Satoh & New Herd Orchestra. I've no idea what this stuff sounds like although Takeshi, a security bloke who speaks a smattering of English, reckons some of it is as good, if not better, than English and American stuff. Apparently the bands can really play and the only thing that holds it back as far as Western ears are concerned is the incomprehensible language it's sung in. Still, you can't have everything.

Unfortunately it doesn't give an account of him actually listening to them and reactions. They should have given him Satori, which would have been more recent than Anywhere.

Fastnbulbous, Thursday, 14 February 2013 20:51 (eleven years ago) link

great to see Betty Davis's Nasty Gal on here. Anyone who hasn't heard it should def check it out. I'm out of my depth with this rawk stuff but I'd state categorically that this is "heavier" than all the other funk on this poll

On Being Blue (Da Ba Dee): A Philosophical Inquiry (wins), Thursday, 14 February 2013 22:07 (eleven years ago) link


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