Jimmy Saville is still alive...

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There are moments when just putting your hands up and going "we made a dumb mistake, sorry" is the best course of action and this is one of them.

Matt DC, Monday, 21 January 2013 13:23 (eleven years ago) link

interesting tho the way kids tv writers put these kinds of ideas into the shows as jokes for the parents (also funny that if Theroux hadn't done his show on otherwise-forgotten-about Savile in 2000 he probably wouldn't have been a joke for people to bother referencing much at the time).

nashwan, Monday, 21 January 2013 13:39 (eleven years ago) link

There is absolutely no sense in which Jimmy Saville would be or was otherwise forgotten about.

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 21 January 2013 13:49 (eleven years ago) link

yeah, Theroux's show was great, but it had very little effect on Saville's stature at the time...

I had such a fontasy (stevie), Monday, 21 January 2013 14:05 (eleven years ago) link

It's weird that Jimmy Savile seemed to have been perceived by everyone around him as being so powerful and popular. I don't remember anyone liking him when I was a kid. We all watched Jim'll Fix It and Top of the Pops but he was just an annoying weird man talking shite in between the good bits.

Stop Gerrying Me! (onimo), Monday, 21 January 2013 14:21 (eleven years ago) link

There is absolutely no sense in which Jimmy Saville would be or was otherwise forgotten about.

There is a sense in that I don't remember him having been on TV much at all for quite a few years prior to the Theroux doc - do correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe the subsequent effect of that show made Savile's profile throughout the 90s seem slighter than it really was (was even Hugh Dennis was on TV much in the late 90s to be leading the regular impressions of him? that feels like a more recent (ie post-Theroux) revival).

nashwan, Monday, 21 January 2013 14:48 (eleven years ago) link

Well yeah, his flagship Jim'll Fix It ran 75-96, but it would not have been wise to bet on a random collection of people greeting a Saville impersonation with blinking unrecognition. Which obviously is partly his work - he was first and foremost a cartoon, and happiest that way.

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 21 January 2013 15:21 (eleven years ago) link

There was a repeat of an old "Have I got news for you", it was pre-olympics as they were discussing the opening ceremony to come. At which point Jo Brand said something along the lines of ".. and just to scare the kiddies, we've dug Jimmy Savile up as well" ...

Mark G, Monday, 21 January 2013 15:46 (eleven years ago) link

i guarantee that if anyone realised that re-run had a cod-savile in it there is no way it would have aired. but you can have a "stalinesque rewriting of history" or you can have a few embarrassing moments, you can't have both.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:30 (eleven years ago) link

absolutely, i'm all for the odd embarrassing moment personally, depending on context.

non-elitist melted poo (Noodle Vague), Monday, 21 January 2013 16:59 (eleven years ago) link

Are they melting down his waxwork, or are they moving it into the chamber of horrors next to Hanratty, etc?

Mark G, Monday, 21 January 2013 17:04 (eleven years ago) link

Up The Arse corner.

Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Monday, 21 January 2013 17:18 (eleven years ago) link

A dead eyed soulless mannequin... and his waxwork dummy.

pure dressed up like a white ninja (snoball), Monday, 21 January 2013 22:00 (eleven years ago) link

Just Do It!

I turned away to leave these few in thought and contemplation (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 22 January 2013 12:45 (eleven years ago) link

Policeman: "Now Mr. Savile, show us where on the dummy you wanted people to touch you."
Savile: "Aahahahaaaaahahahahaah. How's about there then?"

pure dressed up like a white ninja (snoball), Tuesday, 22 January 2013 12:50 (eleven years ago) link

Stuart Hall charged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21154999

Mark G, Tuesday, 22 January 2013 23:17 (eleven years ago) link

four weeks pass...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21520060

An ex-policeman is being investigated over claims he "acted on behalf" of Jimmy Savile before he was interviewed about sexual assault allegations.

The former police inspector has been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) by West Yorkshire Police.

The officer allegedly contacted Surrey Police ahead of the late TV presenter being interviewed in 2009.

Vote in the ILM 70s poll please! (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 11:44 (eleven years ago) link

can't believe Kevin Webster never made it into this thread

explains why he shaved off the tache tho

tochter tochter, please (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 12:41 (eleven years ago) link

He probably never made it in the thread because the case is 18 months old and was dropped at the time by the CPS because of lack of evidence. Post-Savile, the DPP have decided that there maybe was enough evidence after all.

Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 12:47 (eleven years ago) link

RT @JoshHalliday: George Entwistle crowned himself "Gold Commander" and Roger Mosey "Incident Commander" in #Savile crisis-management setup

uh

stet, Friday, 22 February 2013 11:26 (eleven years ago) link

entwistle just looked like an imbecile

Like Poto I don't Cabengo (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Friday, 22 February 2013 11:28 (eleven years ago) link

roger that, Gold Leader

Neil S, Friday, 22 February 2013 11:31 (eleven years ago) link

In a previous incarnation I got taken through their incident management set-up, which is as batshit and militaristic as it sounds. tbf, GE didn't 'crown' himself Gold Commander, this was the infrastructure. The structure seemed to me to have several misconceptions built into it:

1. A sort of cargo-cult attitude - if we take on military structures that will allow us automatically to respond 'better' to crises. When this was set up they actually got military advisors in to talk them through how it worked iirc. Of course there are a couple of fundamental errors here - that your response isn't always based upon the combined celerity, accuracy, experience and decisiveness of the people making the decisions, and the skill of the people who carry out those decisions. Further more, as will be obvious to anyone who has any inkling of the military, it's not for nothing that acronyms like SNAFU and FUBAR found their environmental niche or were born in times of war amongst soldiers, so consistent is the mixture of chaos, fuck up and confusion. This leads to...

2. The only way the BBC could possibly be bedazzled by such a honking sack of idealised shit as this cockamamie wargames crap is because their own structures were and are so inimical to the actual execution of anything that even Paul Ince's <----- SHOOT looks like genius gordian knot cutting in comparison. The workflow is Stygian. The combination of BBC's origination in civil service style structures, and later innovations upon a them, most famously Birtwhistle's deranged spreadsheet cost-benefit culture produce an organisation where processes are not designed to deliver anything but themselves. It is the case that processes have a curious non-sentient self-preservation inherent to them. Frequently, where they don't work properly because they are not suited to the 'bound variable of reality', they require extra amounts of tweaking or further inadequate processes, which requires further management. Decision making can be best represented by the nightmarish receding of the end of the corridor in a dream where you are being chased. It goes something like this.

Someone somewhere thinks something is a good idea - usually EFFICIENCY ----> a very, very large group of stakeholders are brought in (large because it's the BBC, and EVERYONE has an interest), usually with highly paid external consultants from KPMG and the like ----> an analysis is done comparing current processes to the cost-benefit to be had from the idea (increasingly diffused - 'idea' is meaningless by this stage) ---> many many more meetings will be had with increasing numbers of stakeholders each of whom is consulted, and naturally each of whom has a different set of concerns and interests ----> in the interest of politics and 'internal consultative decision making' each of those concerns is addressed by making adjustments to the original concept so that it becomes both unrecognisable from the original idea (good or bad) and one of two things happens - the idea is decided to be a bad idea all round and ditched (good tho a massive waste of time and money), or it's taken up, only it's even more inefficient than the processes that were previously in place, and requires extra management from each of the stakeholders etc.

Gradually you have a procedural behemoth that is incapable of procedure.

To simplify, I compared the process-style recently to a friend:

"It’s like they ran an apple orchard, and are looking to move into oranges groves, but their stats only produce questions like ‘But where are we getting the apples from?’, ‘Hang on, how do we get apple trees to produce oranges?’, ‘We have a problem – we need to get rid of 30 apple pickers, but then we need to recruit 29 orange pickers and although that's an efficiency it'll cost more – I think we should stick with apple pickers,’, ‘That means we need to stick with apples’... then ‘why is no one buying our oranges, whose dreadful idea was this?’

*apples rot on boughs*

As you say, the fogginess around time, money and resourcing is absolutely staggering."

The BBC has become p much a tiny core of outsourcing/contracting, and it's a remarkably inefficient outsourcer, with all the worst excesses of civil service bureaucracy and compliance (often with the best of intentions), and the worst parts of free-market competitiveness. It's utterly grotesque, and frankly, given the quality of most of its output totally disproportionate to the final result, which is frequently total shit.

All this produces the insanity of Delivering Quality First, the most naked asset sell-off and cuts agenda it's possible to imagine.

I grew up with the BBC still having a crypto-authoritarian moral cache, but if that ever meant anything, it's total baloney now. I loathe Murdoch and Sky, and the heavily politicised anti-BBC environment that has brought these circumstances about, but find it almost impossible to defend on its own current terms.

fizzles tics (Fizzles), Saturday, 23 February 2013 13:08 (eleven years ago) link

oh the other important thing that stems from this vast Heath-Robinson inadequacy is a lack of individual accountability - where the decision-making is delivered not by department but by politburo committee, the notion of responsibility gets diffused. ideal for managers innit.

fizzles tics (Fizzles), Saturday, 23 February 2013 13:41 (eleven years ago) link

Good posts.

A Yawning Chasm (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Saturday, 23 February 2013 15:43 (eleven years ago) link

God, this cover

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BD-_5mSCAAAPoWm.jpg

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Monday, 25 February 2013 23:04 (eleven years ago) link

FREE SEEDS indeed

pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Monday, 25 February 2013 23:07 (eleven years ago) link

Grey haired old man known for wearing ostentatious jewellery and ridiculous clothes, recently accused of sexual offences. And next to him, Jimmy Savile.

These goons are from Galactor and who gives a s*** (snoball), Monday, 25 February 2013 23:22 (eleven years ago) link

recently accused of sexual offences.

"inappropriate behaviour" does not necessarily = "sexual offences"

pacing like a lion, as weightless as an astronaut (onimo), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 12:57 (eleven years ago) link

That's true. All he did was abused his position of power to coerce subordinates into doing something that wasn't allowed, and that he'd taken a very public stand opposing. Allegedly.

Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 13:06 (eleven years ago) link

If the allegations are true he has clearly abused a position of power and it may even have been illegal but as this point he has not been "accused of sexual offences". I think that's quite an important distinction - I certainly wouldn't want people on the Internet incorrectly claiming I had been accused of crimes.

pacing like a lion, as weightless as an astronaut (onimo), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 13:13 (eleven years ago) link

"Inappropriate acts" is the wording the Guardian has used, though (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/26/pope-keith-obrien-english-cardinal ) - that isn't a wording which I would ordinarily associate with (say) bullying / fraud / cover-up style "abuses of power".

Also that piece says this:

[Murphy-O'Connor] also refused to comment on whether the fact that O'Brien's accusers were serving or former priests meant it represented a turning point in the abuse scandal for the church leadership.

I read this as the Guardian letting its readers know that the accusations are in the same kind of area as "the abuse scandal". Now, I have no idea about the allegations, and I don't know whether the Guardian have the faintest idea about the allegations; for all I know they're just playing a baseless innuendo game but there are clear newspaperese hints here, wouldn't you say?

Tim, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 13:42 (eleven years ago) link

- that isn't a wording which I would ordinarily associate with (say) bullying / fraud / cover-up style "abuses of power".

The allegations are that the acts were of a sexual nature and have been described as "unwanted sexual advances". Again, that is not necessarily illegal but would constitute an abuse of power, as it would in any workplace.

pacing like a lion, as weightless as an astronaut (onimo), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 13:56 (eleven years ago) link

The allegations are quite widely reported - it's claimed he felt up one priest after a heavy night's drinking, had some kind of mutual homosexual contact with another, and two more have said he came on to them after night prayers. At least one of these alleges that O'Brien used his bishopric to place pressure on them.

It's news because if true then he must be an "aberration", as he famously labelled homosexuals in 2005. He was also Stonewall's 'Bigot of the Year' in 2012 for his position on homosexuality.

The people making the allegation are not claiming illegal acts, as far as I can tell. Their objection seems to be that a man as morally bankrupt and hypocritical as they believe him to be shouldn't be in the college of cardinals choosing the next Pope.

Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 13:59 (eleven years ago) link

The people making the allegation are not claiming illegal acts, as far as I can tell.

I know they aren't. That is what I was saying. I was clearly referring to the "accused of sexual offences" post in this thread.

pacing like a lion, as weightless as an astronaut (onimo), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 14:03 (eleven years ago) link

Which is why I was explaining it for Tim.

Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 14:05 (eleven years ago) link

And now I understand it! Thanks both, what you're saying makes sense. I hadn't seen the nature of the accusations reported.

Tim, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 14:09 (eleven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/13/dave-lee-travis-re-arrested

"Nazir Afzal, chief crown prosecutor from the CPS, said there would be a wave of very high-profile arrests of celebrities in the coming days"

acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 15:28 (eleven years ago) link

dunno why this thread isn't just renamed rolling celebrity paedo thread

Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, 13 March 2013 15:55 (eleven years ago) link

it would be libellous?

acid in the style of tenpole tudor (NickB), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 15:58 (eleven years ago) link

its not the thread title that would be libellous

Algerian Goalkeeper, Wednesday, 13 March 2013 16:03 (eleven years ago) link

some of them really are celebrities

Have fun with your (in complete) (onimo), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 16:06 (eleven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Media reporting "82 year old australian celeb arrested, The Agee/AP not naming names but its p obvious who it is (and another website is naming him). I am a little shocked at this one tbh

It is like ganging up on Enya (Trayce), Friday, 29 March 2013 06:08 (eleven years ago) link

Age, not Agee.

It is like ganging up on Enya (Trayce), Friday, 29 March 2013 06:08 (eleven years ago) link

interesting to note that seven was running news breaks with a VERY OBVIOUS CUT right when the newsreader said 'an australian entertainer'

Esteban Buttiérrez (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 29 March 2013 07:35 (eleven years ago) link

'rofl', i thought

Esteban Buttiérrez (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 29 March 2013 07:36 (eleven years ago) link

haw

It is like ganging up on Enya (Trayce), Friday, 29 March 2013 07:38 (eleven years ago) link

yeah i thought i'd exercise caution and not name names because altho some offbeat media are, mainstream are queerly not, which speaks to some kind of slander caution Im guessing?

It is like ganging up on Enya (Trayce), Friday, 29 March 2013 07:39 (eleven years ago) link

maybe it would count as harrisment

Esteban Buttiérrez (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 29 March 2013 07:40 (eleven years ago) link


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