American Politics Thread 2013: Bangs, Whimpers and Filibusters

it hink you can analyze the deal w/o relying on counterfactuals as to what obama couldve gotten if he wasnt such as wimp

not knowing house procedure, was it some kind of 'concession' on the part of the House Crazies to let the senate bill come to the floor as-is in the first place? even thought they all turned around and voted no?

ya they were basically voting yes w/o voting yes, more protecting their right flank than conceding really

i'm trying to imagine my own COUNTERFACTUAL where democrats started with the position of dealing with pelosi + some house GOP breakaways. but doing so probably would have ensured GOP unity against. that, and a Speaker being abandoned by his own majority leader and whip in the final moments probably shouldn't be characterized as 'breakaways' anyway...

i mean even these insane people had to have realized they they were fucked on this one, also they were tired and wanted to go home, tho not w/o fucking over people whose homes got swept into the ocean

the LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO caucus

there aren't enough moderate house gop breakways, is the problem

there were enough the other day! under the circumstances. which could not be reproduced if you were trying to, is my point, i guess.

they supposedly had some unofficial rule in the house that they wouldn't bring a bill to the floor unless they expected a majority of the majority party to vote for it. so this was a kinda break in their party rules.

'the hastert rule' yes

was it some kind of 'concession' on the part of the House Crazies to let the senate bill come to the floor as-is in the first place?

only if the crazies actually wanted to kill the bill, as opposed to voting 'no', while allowing it to pass. it is the difference between symbolic resistance and knifing it to death in a back alley. so, the biggest crazies are probably very sullen today and plotting their revenge on Boehner.

the hastert rule, which is only a rule i guess until its inconvenient

(/when) do we think cantor is gonna make a move? it seems like it is and will continue to be a shitty job

someone on twitter said cantor doesnt have the votes fwiw

someone on ilx said someone on twitter said cantor doesnt have the votes fwiw

cantor told me he had the votes

tweet: someone on ilx said cantor told them he has the votes

cantor offered to show me his, if I'd show him mine

i wonder if the nutjobs deep down really want one of their own to lead them

really tho what are the benefits to the gig? you gotta be the one who makes deals w/ obama, you gotta rope in the crazies etc

you get to tell people to go fuck themselves

i'm the speaker of the house already!

u get to cry all the time

catch a tan. be on tv.

Toomey looking forward to shutting down the government.

of course theyre going to say that

tbh i wouldnt be surprised if they actually did it, itll prob be the house tho

can the senate even do it, isnt the debt ceiling filibuster proof cause its a budget issue

the thought that the us defaulting on its debts isnt as big of a deal as our 'crippling' budget deficits is some fuckin bullshit

Toomey talks about how little a shutdown would affect "the markets", but he conveniently forgets all the news stories about seniors worrying about not getting their SS payments, families of the unemployed with no food in the house, projects expensively put into mothballs only to be expensively revived two or three weeks later, businesses with goverment contracts not getting paid, etc. This is not just a PR disaster, but gums up the works for the entire nation.

All Obama has to do is sternly lecture Congress in front of cameras on a daily basis, while the Congressional Republicans look worse and worse by trying to talk about hazily theoretical future disasters they are averting by obstinately causing real and present disasters that everyone can see.

This is not just a PR disaster, but gums up the works for the entire nation.

And there's the small matter of signaling to the rest of the world that we are actually willing to default on our debts. Toomey's whole "this isn't about existing debts" is so absurd on its face -- that's exactly what it's about. You can't just imagine some fantasy world where we didn't spend all that money and therefore we don't have to pay it.

the country could still pay its debts and run the government if the debt ceiling isnt raised right away, they just use incoming tax revenue to service the debt and pay out social security and w/e essential stuff then issue iou's for the government costs its cant cover, then once the debit limit is raised you can pay it all back, this could go on for months w/o causing any problems really

it's funny how they never learn their lesson from shutting down the gov't - it's backfired on them every time

the prob is this time there's a limit to the extent that they can get 'punished' for being a shitty gov't

because most of the congresspeople are in safe seats

kind of hopeful the thread title becomes obsolete by year end; would love to see some filibuster reform

so not gonna happen

it may happen but itll be p incremental, unfortunately there will still be the filibuster, some day maybe...

this could go on for months w/o causing any problems really

...except the US Treasury already uses all these dodges and the Congress knows about them and assumes they will be used, so the actual 'shutdown' isn't consdered to begin until all these expedients are exhausted -- and that's what has happened before and what the crazies are talking about doing again.

Meanwhile :

http://m.gawker.com/5972549/wisconsin-gop-legislator-boldly-asks-why-must-we-still-hear-about-kwanzaa

the country could still pay its debts and run the government if the debt ceiling isnt raised right away, they just use incoming tax revenue to service the debt and pay out social security and w/e essential stuff then issue iou's for the government costs its cant cover, then once the debit limit is raised you can pay it all back, this could go on for months w/o causing any problems really

isn't this what we're doing right now? last week there was the statement from Treasury (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-31/geithner-tells-congress-u-s-reaches-debt-limit.html) that the debt ceiling was actually hit on Dec. 31, and Geithner is directing them to take "extraordinary measures" to keep the everything running until Feb 28th.

xpost i'm sorry Kingfish but only Ned is allowed to change the subject using the "Meanwhile: -link-" format.

;)

i could be wrong but its my understanding theres more they can do xp zs

this could go on for months w/o causing any problems really

In terms of actually keeping the wheels on, yes. But from a global finance perspective, turning our willingness to pay our debts into a never-ending political fight is all kinds of irresponsible.

ha yeah i think we passed the all kinds of irresponsible threshold a while ago

well yeah

Hate these guys:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/01/02/16305284-house-gop-blocks-violence-against-women-act?lite

All sorts of wishful thinking 'is Boehner toast' chatter out there now.

Boehner ain't going anywhere except the bar for a bourbon, one ice cube.

Meanwhile, some sausage making

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress-legacy/the-gop-s-failed-plan-o-inside-the-fiscal-cliff-saga-20130102

xpost re: house GOP block of VAWA

But House Republicans insisted the bill is too supportive of immigrants, the LGBT community, and Native Americans -- and they'd rather let the law expire than approve a slightly expanded proposal.

jeeeez. maybe the article is missing some sort of argument the GOP made against the bill (expansion of govt. spending or some other bullshit?). did they have any excuse to block the bill other than "we hate immigrants, the LGBT community, and Native Americans"?

lol, what's she wearing to the inaug, guys?

A pelt made of dead Iraqi children.

nothing, right? #metaphor

pantsuit

also morbs have you seen 'the spectacular now'? it was shot in town here by some local schmuck, bob odenkirk stayed at the hotel my sister works at, a package came for him one day so she actually had to call saul. jennifer jason leigh was apparently in town also which i wish i'd known cuz i totally would've consoled the fuck out of her on the breakup of her marriage. anyhow dude who directed it is doing the hillary biopic which amuses the fuck out of me, i don't know if the right just isn't aware of it yet or are just so depressed by it they can't even muster up the outrage yet.

haven't, i think it came/went in nyc in a week

that movie isn't coming out til '15/16, why get outraged now?

cf benghazi

slow summer season for outrage

i dunno, i hear the new yorker put bert and ernie on the cover this week

I don't know about other people here from NC, but this completely blindsided me... this morning the state Senate covertly amended legislation banning Sharia law to include some pretty draconian restrictions on abortion rights. Insurance coverage restrictions, new limits on abortion clinics, etc.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/07/03/4145432/opponents-of-nc-abortion-bill.html

talkin about it in the other thread

American Politics Thread 2013: I'm a cool Rodham grandma in the USA

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/07/15/19487749-bachmann-explains-the-way-we-spank-the-president?lite

she might wanna share tips w/ Michelle O IMO