I caught Scissorhands for the first time in 20 years recently too and it was overwhelmingly slight, I thought. Burton is one of those directors whose aesthetic -- the idea of a Tim Burton film -- is better than any of his actual films that I recall.
In the early 90s/late 80s, Robert Smith-style gothiness + John Waters + Disney hit all the right buttons culturally.
― Cunga, Wednesday, 26 December 2012 09:17 (eleven years ago) link
I haven't seen Ed Wood since it came out, but based on what I remember of it I'd still defend it as Burton's best (w/possible exception of Pee-Wee, but I give Paul Reubens more credit for that).
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 13:51 (eleven years ago) link
I've seen Ed Wood a number of times and I agree that it's his best.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:01 (eleven years ago) link
"Alice In Wonderland" is on TV later on. I'm kinda interested in seeing it tbh.
― Michael B Higgins (Michael B), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:09 (eleven years ago) link
ymmv, but it felt like a true artistic nadir for Burton the one time I saw it. Worse, even, than his take on Charlie&tCC. I occasionally watch the clip of Depp doing the "Futterwacken" dance on YT if I'm in a bleak mood, just to remind myself that things could always be worse.
― that mustardless plate (Bill A), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:14 (eleven years ago) link
pee-wee > ed wood > beetlejuice > mars attacks > everything else
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
Looking back it's just so odd that this is who DC handed the first Batman film since the 60s - the allegedly first "serious" one - to. And that they gave him another! Not that I'm complaining about either.
I think he's had mistakes before and since, but Big Fish was the one that I remember watching and thinking "Wow, there's nothing in this".
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
tbf i haven't seen anything he's done in full since charlie and the chocolate factory, but then do i really need to?
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
Big Fish was pretty bad
― Michael B Higgins (Michael B), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
Burton's reputation would be preposterous and invincible if he had stopped making films in the 90s and was only now making a comeback. A friend put it another way: "tim burton could have won best picture for big fish if he had taken about ten years off before making it"
― Cunga, Thursday, 27 December 2012 08:27 (eleven years ago) link
I stopped seeing his movies about 10 years ago but he's still useful to me as a commissioner of new Danny Elfman scores (for some reason Elfman still brings his A game for Burton's films even though the films themselves do nothing of the sort.) I never plan on going near the Alice film but Elfman's music for it was maybe the best film score of that year.
(There's a similar dynamic with M Night Shyamalan and James Newton Howard-- JNH invariably writes his most inspired music for these misbegotten films)
― Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:38 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark
planet of the apes was the beginning of the end for me. what a big nothing. what gets to me is how ugly his films are now. its all digital chintziness with no character
― turds (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
The best thing for him at this point would be some of jobwork. Like, having to direct someone else's baby. But he has too much clout to be constrained in that way.
― Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
weird thing to say right after someone brings up planet of the apes
― da croupier, Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:13 (eleven years ago) link
ha. point taken.
― Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
h4a otm - Alice, Dark Shadows, all this new stuff has a very plastic deadness about it. all gloss, no depth
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
TB would be fine if he stuck to animated stuff -- like, a stop-motion burton 'alice' would probably have been awesome. it's amazing that a guy who did something as good as 'ed wood' churns out as much soulless dreck as he does now.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 27 December 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
the single worst thing about 'alice in wonderland' was its not being alice in wonderland, rather a silly sort of lotr-lite fanfic
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
yeah how the hell do you manage to make Alice in Wonderland boring ffs
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
exactly. I do not know what grade of numpty picks up one of the english language's best regarded works and goes 'hey I can do a better one'.
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
hee hee numpty, i love that word
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
'the picture of dorian gray: lost in new york'
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
yknow I really love little women but let's lose all the women and the whole family thing, it's pretty on the nose
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:50 (eleven years ago) link
'the wind in the willows', in which toad wears a black suit with spiralled coat tails and battles an undead womble army
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:52 (eleven years ago) link
would probably see that
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
can't wait to see helena bonham-carter as a goth meg
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
i can see him doing this for real
― abanana, Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
beetlejuice 2: beetlejuice goes hawaiian
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:59 (eleven years ago) link
would probably watch that too
― packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:59 (eleven years ago) link
dug up this quote from an old alice thread:
"Every other version I've ever seen, I've never really connected to because it's always just a series of weird events," Burton said. "She's passively wandering through, meeting this weird character, that weird character. It's fine in the books, but the movies always felt like there wasn't anything underneath them. That's what we tried to do. Instead of the Hatter just being weird, [we wanted to] get some kind of character underneath him. That's the goal, is to give the 'Alice' material a little more weight to it."
wow thank god you were there to 'give a little more weight' to one of the greatest books ever, you doofus.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:03 (eleven years ago) link
that TB quote right there is pretty much why I hate screenwriters in a nutshell.
― Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
weirdy mcweirdson of weirdsville decided his source material was too weird xp
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
giving the Hatter character = dancing like a nit
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
"yes but who ARE the flying monkeys"
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:08 (eleven years ago) link
can you imagine if he made 'pee wee' now? it'd start out with a flashback to 10-year-old pee wee getting hit by a bike.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:08 (eleven years ago) link
I liked the back story he gave Willy Wonka in that Charlie Chocolate Factory movie but at the same time, in typical Burton fashion is underlined the motivations of the original story way too much (ie original was a sad treatise on spoiled children and horrible parents masquerading as a fun adventure)
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:12 (eleven years ago) link
he just can't help to make everything bummertown USA
in typical burton fashion *he, not is
I really really liked his version of charlie, especially the whole michaely-jacksony parallel xp
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
i liked a lot of it, but there was something about the disco-y ness of it that really annoyed the shit out of me at the same time
depp did a nice carol channing, I thought :)
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
oh yeah, the pop culture oompah-loompah sons were shithouse
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
*songs
bahahaha carol channing
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
i got really really tired of deep roy after a while
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
making wonka into a sad victimized dude just messes too much with the whole dynamic of the story. the original film's take, where wonka remains mysterious, genuinely unpredictable, and even vaguely malevolent throughout the whole story, seems much more in line with dahl's intentions. plus wilder's thinly veiled delight in the kids' fates is way 'darker' than anything in burton's film.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:17 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that's what I mean -- burton can't resist telegraphing all of that dark backstory, when you really didn't need it it was a nice creative detour though
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
christopher lee as scary dentist dad was perfect casting
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, that's very true (xp to j.d.)
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
but at least burton told the story that was the actual title of the actual film
― 炒面kampf (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:20 (eleven years ago) link
as opposed to, you know, 'the battle for wondergarth'