Haven't had a chance to listen to the whole album, but I'm talking about the song as an example for a lot of different things going on ATM. Maybe on other songs Miguel sounds like Care of Cell 44, but I'm not talking about those.
― besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 14:56 (eleven years ago) link
And I made it clear that it's maybe not that likely that Miguel has even heard the JJ song, but the correlation is there, even if its just a coincidence. I wouldn't put it past Miguel, Frank Ocean etc to be well aware of, and influenced by, what's going on in current alternative pop/rock though.
― besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 14:58 (eleven years ago) link
Have you heard the JJ song, Matt DC?
i wish i hadn't this morning
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 14:59 (eleven years ago) link
You're reminding me of the time SPIN in '98 or '99 actually devoted a small story to the alternative acts that R&B and rap acts loved. Why on earth would anyone be surprised Missy loves Bjork?
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 14:59 (eleven years ago) link
it's not surprising, that's my point.
― besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 15:00 (eleven years ago) link
so why mention it?
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 15:00 (eleven years ago) link
I have heard the JJ song and it has nothing to do with Do You other than the fact they both use a bit of reverb and there are black people involved somewhere along the line. But you're talking about an album you haven't actually listened to and getting it wrong - while as I said it's predominantly a soul album it's also steeped in 60s psychedelia. If there's any link between Miguel and Animal Collective it's that they have the same source material but you're approaching it from 45 years in the wrong direction.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
both use a bit of reverb and there are black people involved somewhere along the line.
And both have explicit references to drugs in a VERY matter of fact way, but that's beside the point. Fine, have it your way - there is no correlation between current r'n'b and current indie. The two are completely different. The two sides are not listening to each other.
― besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
And again, I'm only comparing Do You and Ecstasy as examples of a whole load of things from the Weeknd to Frank Ocean to Dirty Projectors to Discovery to JJ, if only because that's immediately what I thought of when I heard the Miguel song. If he's going for a sixties aesthetic on other tracks, so be it.
― besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 15:12 (eleven years ago) link
the hits just keep comin!
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1699156/frank-ocean-miguel-rnb-comeback-genre-2012.jhtml
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
In other words, rhythm and blues was still just that thing Drake did when he was in his feelings, and the genre known to some detractors as Ribs & Barbecue was still on the ropes
In other words, rhythm and blues was still just that thing Drake did when he was in his feelings, and the genre known to some detractors as Ribs & Barbecue was still on the ropes.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
holy
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
Today we are all Alex Macpherson
― Evan R, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
Ribs and...
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
Channel Orange, Kaleidoscope Dream and Trilogy rescued the art form from the monotony of "baby, baby please," as Ocean, Miguel and Weeknd casually re-created it in their own images. Proving you could sing about dreams and drugs, make songs for women and men, and as long as it rang true, they would come. For their mighty efforts, we've crowned R&B the Comeback Genre of the Year.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:24 (eleven years ago) link
what the FUCK
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
what's this, pop stars are singing about drugs now?
― Captain Humberbantz (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:30 (eleven years ago) link
It took Miguel's second project for him to learn what Frank had already begun to discover on his self-propelled 2011 project, Nostalgia, Ultra, namely that it's always best to do like that old Fleetwood Mac song says, and go your own way.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:31 (eleven years ago) link
can't believe Frank Ocean doesn't do more songs about girls
― Captain Humberbantz (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:33 (eleven years ago) link
people who act like Miguel's first album sounded like an Omarion record are so annoying
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:35 (eleven years ago) link
we should be suspicious of terrible writers and their poor thesis construction
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:36 (eleven years ago) link
can't believe Frank Ocean doesn't do more songs with Girls.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
haha
― pandemic, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:40 (eleven years ago) link
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4-yBZr5goc4/TTwP48JUdBI/AAAAAAAABDA/bzxKqiwv9X0/s1600/Go+Your+Own+Way.jpg
― Deafening silence (DL), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
- Bob Marley
― Captain Humberbantz (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
Ribs & Barbecue & Bottle Service
― Andy K, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
the ribs & barbecue assertion is kind of genius because it appears to be impossible to verify/refute
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
I assumed everyone who was paying attention was into The-Dream in 2010. Also Frank was 2011. And The Weeknd album mentioned is a repackaging of 3 2011 mixtapes. And what about Beyonce's "4"? R&B hasn't gone anywhere.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
As for Miguel, from my perspective he kinda broke-through this year, even though as mentioned earlier his 2010 LP is just as good.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
funny how the comeback arguments always fail to mention that R.Kelly and Aaliyah.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:51 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha yeah it's pretty googleproof
― some dude, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
this is all making me nostalgic for the days when prince was the king of rock and boy george was the king of reggae and new order made some of the best latin freestyle and midnight star were a top-selling new wave act.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
i definitely think there are old guard people who don't want their ideas of what r&b means to them to be messed with? just like the oldhead jazz people and oldhead rock people who stopped moving years ago. and they just look funnier and funnier in post-everything internet world. do the young people know their history and what r&b means within the context of the african american community, etc, etc. and the young people (black and white) grew up with shiny rap and undie rap and timbaland and fancy swedish euro-beats and indie rock and dubstep and the list goes on and on. its all fair game. and young r&b artists grew up with all that too! whats funny to me is that i have ALWAYS felt like music was a big melting pot ever since i was a little kid in the early 70s (thanks sly and hey thanks blood sweat and tears too while i'm at it) and the whole THING - or a big thing anyway - of the 70's was going anywhere and everywhere with your sound. and this is the stuff that the oldheads revere! so any "suspicion" about the intent of new artists is mighty suspicious to me. like you are trying to bring old arguments into a place where there really haven't been a lot of arguments. i thought the black eyed peas taught us something about life in the future but i guess not.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 18:46 (eleven years ago) link
I want to hug you for that post, scott
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
I think this debate - like nearly every debate on ILM - keeps getting shifted back to the music and the artists when really it's about the framing of those things.
The problem isn't with Frank Ocean or Miguel (who are good-to-great and excellent respectively) but with listeners wanting to hype up a shift in their listening (in 2012, for a variety of reasons, these people started listening to more R&B again) as some kind of seismic shift in the music itself.
Yes there's always a melting pot, which is precisely why the fact that some people can ignore it for years until suddenly their noses are shoved in it again by critical opinion, and then they can act like it's all because of animal collective or something, is so >_<
― Tim F, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
R&B must be on its fifth or sixth generation of older fans who don't want their ideas of the genre to be messed with by now.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
DO YOU SEE WHY I FIGHT NOW
jesus fucking christ
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
1) i took an executive decision to skip every dog latin post in this thread2) it's more telling who gets excluded from the hype than who benefits from it
― lex pretend, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:13 (eleven years ago) link
thread is too fucking infra dig for me tbph but i just had to pop in and give a standing ovation to matt's perfect gifcraft
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
perhaps i am cynical but a large part of me feels like frank ocean is primarily referred to as 'alt' not because of his sound (which as many have noted is very traditional-leaning; i should note that i am also not that much of a fan) as much as his affiliation with the promoted-to-the-blog-heavens odd future collective, which is repped by the very plugged-in life or death pr. (the weeknd/drake affiliation is similar although not exactly so.) and i think this is what jason is getting to more than anything.
but then again i think we need to pull back the curtain on how soundalike acts are marketed to different demographics more often.
― maura, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
Frank Ocean is also referred to as "alt" because he told a story in his liner notes about how he had a crush on a guy
― GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
it's certainly noteworthy in my own life that my straight friends are more enthusiastic about an album by a purportedly bisexual man than I am.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
its certainly noteworthy that the king of reggae, boy george, had 6 top ten hits in the u.s. and nobody even knew if he was a boy or a girl.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0wjd3W0JO1qf9xgfo1_500.jpg
― scott seward, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
i'm just glad this thread for some reason reminded me of culture club cuz now i want to dig out i'll tumble 4 ya long version 12 inch.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
we miss her blind
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
hairy wrists in that pic are a bit of a giveaway scott
― Albert Crampus (NickB), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
oddly, this is the first thing I noticed too
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
sexist part imo
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
if boy george had been a girl she would have been called girl george ok?
― the late great, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 21:36 (eleven years ago) link