The purpose built next generation interstellar Dawn Richard thread

Like it's okay we can admit that not everything with based production from Dawn is going to be the best thing in the universe.

"Thought You Said" was great though.

I agree that the tunes aren't as sharp as on Armor On, but the new EP's atmosphere is amazing.

I agree re the atmosphere, and on the two stand-outs it's a win-win IMO.

I guess the thing for me is that it's never just atmospherics with Dawn. Her songs work b/c of their emotional intensity, and particularly what she does with her harmonies. One of the things that feels uniquely Dawn on Armor On but also on "Wild 'n' Young" (arguably "Pretty Wicked Things" but I don't think it feels as unique or distinctive there - great tune though) is this sense of inexorably climaxing intensity, the songs just build and build and build with this unstoppable force.

I think it's that quality, rather than strong songwriting per se, that is really Dawn's killer stroke. Inventive arrangements are necessary but not (by themselves) sufficient.

Like m@tt I just recently listened to Armor On for the first time (Telltale Heart too) . Fantastic stuff.

I do think "Miles" is the new set's strongest tune tho.

whiteout is excellent and i have no complaints at all, but comparing it to armor on, which seems so obviously the more accomplished work, is odd to me. it's a freebie curio to make up for delaying the album, and dawn seems to have been mindful that these tracks weren't her strongest song-wise (either she wrote them quickly recently, or had them just lying around) and gone out of her way to nail the production and atmosphere to compensate. and she did nail it, it's a gorgeous little winter suite that's really engrossing in a certain mood or on headphones (and it works as a suite rather than a cherrypicking exercise - "whiteout" barely has a hook but it leads into the ep so well).

my 50 words of snow comparison was offhand but whiteout is pretty much fulfilling the exact same function in my life atm

lex otm

The idea that this is as good as Armor On was the only thing I was responding to, though.

Who said that?

Rob upthread

Tim, I think re: "Miles" in particular, having never been a dnb head or indeed, really lived through its original existence (I'm pretty sure the first time I heard of it was w/r/t "Bombs Over Baghdad", which was a bit misleading to say the least), I don't have the specific negative association with late-period dnb beats that you have. I can't really even tell the difference between those eras unless I stop to think about it, whereas any use of a dnb beat in an r&b tune is fairly novel to me. I don't even know what '98 era pop-dnb you'd be comparing this to.

i think it sounds a bit like when everything but the girl started using dnb beats

No it's not at all like late nineties d&b, more like late nineties pop electronica.

I don't really want to preempt my review too much but there's a big qualitative difference b/w the use of d&b on "Black Lipstick" and the use of d&b on "Miles".

No it's not at all like late nineties d&b, more like late nineties pop electronica.

― Tim F, Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:38 AM Bookmark

Sure, but I was pretty much ignorant of this stuff, too. Afaik, "Missing" is the only ETBTG song I've heard.

The breakbeat on Miles is just about the only thing I don't really care for on Whiteout. It just sounds wrong.

It's not the retroness that bothers me, more that the beat isn't really integrated - "Miles" feels like the work of someone who was impressed by d&b but didn't really get it (which is odd because "Black Lipstick" totally got it). That's why I flash on pop-electronica, that sense of people thinking that fast drum loops are impressive in and of themselves. (to be clear I still like the tune a fair bit)

I thought of Madonna's "Little Star" when I first heard it, but on re-examination that is actually way more bass-driven than I remembered (albeit in a Good Looking kind of way). EBTG's "Before Today" is probably a decent reference point though (let's leave alone "Walking Wounded" which is on another level):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYJPGQ9iCNc

more that the beat isn't really integrated

i'm relistening now and i don't hear what you mean by this?

It feels sellotaped over the top rather than a natural fit with the song.

Yeah.

The beat on "Black Lipstick" really drives the song, its propulsiveness and its hesitations are what Dawn pivots around.

On "Miles" the beat just loops prettily in the background.

Lack of bass an issue, in part. Which is understandable: "Miles" isn't a song that would work with strong bass, I think. But by the same token if that's the case then a straight sped-up breakbeat is probably gonna sound distracting.

If I was producing it I'd probably drag it closer to Janet Jackson's "Empty": if you're gonna use rippling percussion as unadulterated pretty soundstuff you may as well go all the way.

Of course it's deeply unfair to invoke "Empty" which is as close to perfection as music has ever gotten.

"black lipstick" just has a fuller arrangement to my ears - those ominous chimes are what drives it most of all, two separate drum patterns (i can hear how one of them drops in and out at pivotal points but the underlying one doesn't seem any more integrated than on "miles"?)

Could it just be a function of how the two records are mixed? In "Whiteout", the drums are all panned to one side, which has something of a distancing effect, whereas in "Black Lipstick" they have a more typical balance.

err "Whiteout" "Miles"

It's partly in the way her verse lines almost seem to set off the pattern, which itself peaks just before the second beat in each bar, so that it almost seems to recede and tumble into its own reiteration.

But saying "the underlying one doesn't seem any more integrated" is also a good way of skirting around my point, because it's not just looping by itself, there's a conscious effort to make the build in the rhythm (through a plurality of rhythms) match the build in the vocals and the build in the song. That's basically what I mean when I say "integrated".

btw has anybody gone deep into dawn's itune catalogue and pulled all her collabs, I still think the joint she did with mateo is maybe one of my favorite sappy love songs ever

i don't think i actually consciously hear any of this - i have to really pay attention to stuff that's normally just in the wash of the arrangement for me and i'm still not sure exactly what you're referring to

It's also that the breakbeat just doesn't QUITE fit on Miles, it feels like it's been fairly awkwardly cropped to fit in with everything else. The whole execution feels slapdash basically.

I'm not really feeling the EP as a whole, the songwriting feels a bit flimsy in comparison to Armor On, it's atmospheric enough but the whole thing gives off major stopgap vibes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZPdRPReWeY

i got whiteout the same time i finally got a copy of '86 and i must admit to just listening to the latter on repeat

yeah "'86" is definitely keeping my DR enthusiasm alive far more than the EP

It's not an either/or proposition! I've listened to both a ton.

not saying it is, just saying i'm in the same boat as goole. once you've got one great release under your belt for the year anything beyond that is all gravy imo.

exactly xp

Dawn beating the Destroyer-Bon Iver crew at Best Instrumental Peter Gabriel Track with "86."

huh, I didn't really care for 86 (or Pretty Wicked Things) that much when I listened to them a while back, which might be the reason for slightly overrating Whiteout (agree with Matt about that "sellotaped" beat) once it clicked: relief that she wasn't heading into a direction I wasn't feeling. You all raving about 86 though means I'm going to give it another listen.

heard whiteout once, never bothered to listen to it again

86 pretty much instantly became one of my favorite things this year

okay 86 is really good. did anyone else notice it's followed on the album by a song called "In Your Eyes"?
actually I don't the tracklist was posted here yet:

1. Intro (In The Hearts Tonight)
2. Return of A Queen
3. Goliath
4. Riot
5. Gleaux
6. Northern Lights
7. Pretty Wicked Things
8. Frequency
9. Warfaire
10. Tug of War
11. Ode To You
12. 86
13. In Your Eyes
14. Break of Dawn
15. [300]
16. Goldenheart

I can hear certain posters wincing at "Warfaire" already

ok i've heard this fully mastered now and h.o.l.y.f.u.c.k.y.e.s.

i also think it was a very good idea to move "riot" right up front rather than the originally intended bonus track stuck on the end

if the world ends Friday, lex will be the only one of us who got to hear this album

at least 3 of those song titles are hilarious

some song titles have a kinda kate bush vibe

"Gleaux"

i've been wanting to know this for like a decade now, but is the "-eaux" suffix to replace "-o" an actual louisiana thing, maybe referencing french heritage? back in the day on a tennis msgboard i was on, there was a significant contingent of obsessive chanda rubin fans from louisiana, and they'd all say "geaux chanda" instead of "go chanda"

some song titles have a kinda kate bush vibe

i know this is a big statement but HOUNDS OF FUCKING LOVE is seriously a comparison point for the...grandeur of this thing

"Gleaux" is one thing but "Warfaire"??

Also "Break of Dawn" is kinda like, jeez DR don't put sub-editors out of a job, they've got mouths to feed.

the tracklisting's been out for months hasn't it? i feel like we've all lolled at "warfaire" before

that's the first it's been posted itt

wait till blackheart's "heartillery"