101 reasons why punk sucks

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Often?!

X-post.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

They're not early 20somethings any more.
xxpost

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

They're all under 25, no?

(HI DERE Lex Cis and WBS)

Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

they're no Rod, Jane & Freddy.

blueski, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

My ten favourite punk records of 1977:

1. Ornette Coleman - Dancing In Your Head
2. David Bowie - Low
3. Kraftwerk - Trans-Europe Express
4. Culture - Two Sevens Clash
5. Brian Eno - Before And After Science
6. Wire - Pink Flag
7. Isipingo - Family Affair
8. Anthony Braxton - The Montreux/Berlin Concerts
9. John Martyn - One World
10. Fleetwood Mac - Rumours

That's punk as I know and understand it.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

but you are suggesting young critics today and then giving those three as an example seems odd. i guess if you threw a cat into the nme office it would run into someone for wh0om an idea of punk, possibly nothing more than "oh yeh man revolution", would mean something. people are still being brought up being told band x is the new punk rock, maybe it means less. grime was the new punk rock wasn't it? i don't know. the thing that makes those three bad examples is that they come from the ilx world, they have been involved in the kid of discourse that reflects on the usefulness of ideas such as punk.

woops i have mis-interpereted what you meant. ah well. i think "punk" the "event" in some senses shrunk in significance a little but then indie writers particuarly seem imo to be in a mindset atm which is not paticuarly backward looking. the music maybe be retrogressive but it doesn't seem like the past itself is being venerated much.

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Only what sells is venerated.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

no has noticed Maximo Park are the new Inspiral Carpets. they may never write a song as good as "She Comes in the Fall" thou.

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well I don't know any NME writers so I didn't want to generalise about them. The impression I get though is in line with yr second para - punk is something obviously cool but not really important, it just happens to align a bit with what they enjoy about now.

There's a definite sense of conviction and belief in the NME's support of the stuff it likes, which there really really wasn't during previous punk 'revivals' and 77 lookbacks, much though we all enjoy S*M*A*S*H now I'm sure.

Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

there's at once more and less at stake now.

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

only what sells is venerated

velvet underground to thread

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

The VU "sold" Lou Reed, Andy Warhol, Goodyear tyres, sunglasses, the romantic junkie boho artist loft myth, records for current bands, etcetera, just not their own records.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

Thank you for your tedious, simplistic generalities about 3 decades of music made by countless diverse people all of the world, who as noted above, did not get together and have a meeting where they decided this is what "punk" will mean. Using the word "situationist" and mentioning Debord is not enough to make your theory coherent. As for your critique that it is all "boring" and "unsubtle," what do you like Scik?

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

Thank you for being kneejerkingly reactionary about it.

I'm not trying to start a discussion about punk, punkrock, hardcore, postpunk, etcetera, etcetera, as a loose genre of musics made around the world by disparite entities focused on a DIY aesthetic and loud guitars amongst other things, etcetera, etcetera, or whatever. I am talking about the notion of "punk" as adopted and expressed and used as a signifier by the mainstream (British, essentially, what with me being British) media.

On an aesthetic musical level I don't like what that usage of the term "punk" represents, whether it be The Sex Pistols or Green Day or Avril Lavigne. I do like, as mentioned, Talking Heads, Wire, Fugazi, blah blah. And I was also not positing a theory either; I was requesting theories, which we got.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

We did this already:

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=55719

Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

YEAH!

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

And this year, too! I think I thought that was in the Sandbox.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

Oh there's probably countless other threads doing exactly the same! This one is great though because it has been fun and stimulating TODAY!

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

I just feel like talking about that one bit on Stay Hungry when David Byrne screams "I FEEL LIKE SITTING DOOOOOWWWWWWWWWNNNN!" now. Dunno why, except that it's brilliant.

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

I meant "New Feeling" not "Stay Hungry"

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

what was the last major pop-cult / counter cult movement? that pre 9/11 moment when post rock, no logo and actual riots seemed to, impressionable 17 years olds, all be part of the same thing?

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

9/11 may have been the crux really. Suddenly everyone's like "Oh well, we're fucked now and we know we can''t do owt about it".

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

9/11? What's that got to do with anything?

Tom D., Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

i'd say that the strokes were important on one level. i think post 9/11 a lot of the counter cultural energy was channeled into stop the war stuff but that never seemed cool, no "modern", "hip" bands really spoke out, it was 90s and 80s people who spoke out. remember jack white's "i'm just a musician" quote?

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

Oh there's probably countless other threads doing exactly the same! This one is great though because it has been fun and stimulating TODAY!

-- Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:38 AM (52 minutes ago)


well then let's summarize how they all end up:

guy #1: punk is 3 chord idiocy, and doesn't deserve the props it gets
guy #2: punk is diverse look at bands x,y, and z
guy #1: band x is punk, but band y and z aren't
guy #2: yes they are
guy #1: no they're not
guy #2: yes they are
guy #1: no they're not
guy #2: yes they are
guy #1: no they're not
[image flood]

Edward III, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

(except for that beales thread, that thing is in a league of its own)

Edward III, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

a '101 reasons why Pink sucks' thread would be better.

blueski, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

who needs punk when you can listen to embrace?

artdamages, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

alternate ending

guy #1: punk is 3 chord idiocy, and doesn't deserve the props it gets
guy #2: punk is diverse look at bands x, y, and z
guy #1: band x is punk, but band y and z aren't
guy #2: yes they are
guy #1: no they're not
guy #2: yes they are
guy #1: no they're not
guy #2: paul edward wagemann
guy #1: no they're not
guy #2: paul edward wagemann
guy #1: no they're not
guy #2: PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN

Edward III, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

9/11 may have been the crux really. Suddenly everyone's like "Oh well, we're fucked now and we know we can''t do owt about it".

-- the next grozart, Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:08 AM (16 minutes ago)

yeah before you mentioned this everyone had been forgeting about 9/11

artdamages, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

The real problem with our generation is not that rebellion has been co-opted, it's that we can't separate aesthetic-based rebellion from other kinds of rebellion so we fall for the bullshit line that all rebellion has been coopted. If I were to imbue capitalism with motives, I would say it WANTS you to feel like your rebellion has been coopted so you throw your hands up and join the party.

It's arguable that music, art, clothing etc. can never again be rebellious (though there will always be aesthetics popping up that are at least temporarily shocking). But one's ability to refuse, resist etc. can never be coopted, so long as one is willing to differentiate between resisting and being "cool."

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

However, grime.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

I mean the problem is that we can't let go of the idea that rebelling has something to do with the t-shirt you wear and the CDs you buy, that political resistance should come with fashion and sex-appeal. This was ALWAYS a capitalist idea, it just took a couple of decades for most people to realize it.

Meanwhile people are busy rebelling in all kinds of ways that have nothing to do with what body part they pierce.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

For example, the grime movement.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

i think the problem with our generation is there is no public forums to discuss our problems.

artdamages, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

Do I post that we're too busy talking shit about it online to be OUT RIOTING or is that predictable?

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

Neil Fontaine, Terry Winters and The Mechanic to thread.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

If we take Punk as a category that gets filled in, it could be argued that the current mainstream embodiment of Punk is Emo. Is Emo a particularly rebellious form of music? Yes and no I suppose. It's rebellious because:

Parents don't understand it
There's a lot of self-loathing involved (self harm/anorexia)
The kids wear daft clothes

It's not rebellious because:

It hasn't really got a political agenda, unlike most other forms of Punk
At least they're beating themselves up and not the po-lice
The kids wear daft clothes, but this has to be the first time I've seen middle-class well brought up under 16s with lip-piercings, ear tubes, tattoos, expensive clothes and where their parents seem fine with all that.

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

remember when the clash started that riot? they really changed things for the better. i think people weren't on the dole so much after that. or else more people were on the dole. which ever is good, i forget. they really changed the world though with their music.

artdamages, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hate to disillusion you, but the Clash never started any riots.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

uhhhhhh White Riot, hello???

Mr. Que, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

artdamages, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

Who is artdamages and why is he trying to destroy this thread with the usual ILX-brand snarky sarcasm, which has thus far been absent?

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think you'll find "White Riot" was the title of a song, rather than a riot, as such.

Coxhill, Creme or Tolhurst?

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

It hasn't really got a political agenda, unlike most other forms of Punk


Yea I remember the ska punk aktion of 97 mannnnn

JW, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

no the Clash actually had a riot in the studio when they recorded White Riot.

Mr. Que, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

who the fuck cares who i am. i don't have to have name recognition to post on ILM.

you started a thread about how you hate an entire genre because it is the most establishment and capitalist of all genres. was i supposed to take that seriously and do a thousand word post about how i disagree?

artdamages, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

most

who the fuck listened to ska-punk anyway. oh yeah, everyone who wasn't on ilx.

wasn't isn't

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

the clash seem to have had quite an effect on (now) middle aged british trade unionists.

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 15:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

30 Years Crazy - Cisco & the Reasons Why

this song is so fucking great i love it.

M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

And recorded poorly.

that's pretty harsh coming from a siltbreeze fan!

Edward III, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

I stumbled across some thrashy punk record label from arizona on myspace recently and friended them. it's fun, like finding a stegosaurus in your rose bush.

Edward III, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

Haha, I was reading the titles/artits backwards and I thought there was a Jars Of Clay song on there. M@tt, thanks, this should be awesome. I'm not really into alt-country either, so possibly his tastes and mine are somewhat aligned.

I am really, really, really bored by most punk rock these days.
I was way into punk in high school, but now so much of it sounds the same, the politics are bland and unconvincing, and the whole thing seems like a lame pose. Also, it's too fast most of the time. And recorded poorly.

-- ian, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 14:00 (2 hours ago) Link

I can't stomach most of the political soapboxing in punk so I avoid that stuff. There's a ton where that's completely non-existent so it's not an issue. I guess if you don't care for the fidelity that can be a problem, it's pretty much an intentional aesthetic a lot of the time... unless you're Turbo Negro (these days) or the Black Halos or something. And if you can distance yourself, which is pretty impossible sometimes, the lame pose is part of the appeal, part of the charm.

I went through a similar trial, I got into punk initially in high school (lol punk-o-rama), and like a lot of people I became disillusioned. You know, the big mistake of trying to take 19-year-old Ian MacKaye seriously, and, for me, getting out of my town of 4,000 and meeting "punks" did not help. It really took some years, and it took discovering some new bands (and bands that were new to me) to get back into it. Basically it was finding Killed By Death comps and termbo, and some of the weirder-flavored bands that sparked it again for me.

RabiesAngentleman, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

that should read, "titles/artists"

RabiesAngentleman, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

reason numba' one-oh-one: sid vicous's mum

t**t, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 17:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

punk's DIY philosophy = classic
punk rock = meh (for the most part)
punks = super duper dud

rockapads, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 17:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

Is rave now becoming part of the political and media establishment?

Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 12:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

it? It is.

how's life, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

thanks punk rock you did a good job and often still do

l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

good posts in this thread, matt :)

flopson, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:48 (1 year ago) Permalink


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