Classic or Dud: U2

I think they're a dud because of Bono's rather predictable vocal stylings and with a handful of exceptions I've not seen much in the songs to redeem that. But they were onto something production wise with the Eno/Lanois sound on the Joshua Tree, a kind of stadium artrock shimmer which was marred by Bono's OTT bellowing but made for some grand rock singles anyhow. Since they discovered 'irony' they've been utterly unbearable.

1984 -- "What's this 'Pride' song on the radio? Hm, sounds nice."

1987 -- "This _Joshua Tree_ album is pretty good."

1988 -- "This _Rattle and Hum_ album is pretty shit, one or two tracks aside."

Through to the present -- occasional good tune to the contrary, *snore*

At this point, seeing U2 would rank up there as a 'pleasure' for me in the same way that seeing the Rolling Stones or Bruce Springsteen would. I leave that kind of joy to the deadened, blinkered likes of Robert Hilburn. Never has the continuing mainstream critical consensus been ever so increasingly frustrating and obnoxious, but I suppose they make a great band for somebody who buys one album a year.

I thought they might be onto something with 'Achtung Baby', which I don't mind, but then of course pomp and bluster took hold again, and it's back to business as usual.

the earnest stage, in, like the 80s, when they really meant it, and they rocked and all that stuff, and i don't even remember, just some ugly people on the tv. turn that over. boring. dud, of course they were dud. the 80s were grey and horrible, and they were grey and horrible for the simple reason that u2 were in them, dud dud dud.

the irony/postmodern thingy in the 90s, they didn't mean it anymore, they're only playing! "oh, we were pompous in the 80s, how silly we were' lets be as over the top as poss and subvert. irony, yeah!! no no no, dud again. is this phase more or less dud than the initial phase? can't decide.

now. they really mean it again. they're going to change the world with their big tuneful rock thats a bit pop too. and the pope likes them. and noel g too! dud, but not as dud as the other 2 phases. no wait, more dud.

aaargh, u2! the biggest dud of them all. but funny i guess.

so, dud then

Musically, I think they go from Dud to Classic and back a lot, but mainly I have a big U2 trauma, because they were by 10 miles the favorite band of all obnoxious rich kids at school - "Sunday Bloody Sunday" is their fucking "Stairway To Heaven" and it's ruined that song for me.

I seem to prefer Under A Blood Red Sky, Rattle & Hum and Zooropa over The Joshua Tree (too much bombast, "Where The Streets Have No Name" has no discernible tune) Achtung Baby (half of it is undistinctive atmospheric in-one-ear-out-the-other stuff) and the latest one (hits-plus-filler), but that might be just a personal thing.

I have no opinion about Bono's personality, but I remember once kids from my secondary school making some sort of amateur video, lipsynching to some song or other - this would be in the mid-80's - and halfway through it one of them starts brandishing a big white flag around, not as a statement or anything, but 'cause that's what rock bands do, right ? Bono does it !

They were a very pernicious influence at one point. They were one of the bands that made it almost impossible at one point for mainstream rock fans to enjoy music that isn't stadium-size. Plus almost every goddamn new Canadian rock band around 1987-89 sounded like U2 and Simple Minds.

ANYHOW, I apparently have to wave the flag nearly by myself but U2 are goddamned classics. Sure, Bono apparently has had sunglasses surgically attached to his face, and sure he's annoying, and sure Zooropa and Pop were piss, but no band who could put out something the level of Achtung Baby! should ever, ever, EVER be referred to as a dud. EVER. Their greatest hits album is just beautiful. I mean, yes, Bono is a twathead at times. I WILL GIVE ALL OF YOU THIS FACT. Mainly because it is a fact - I mean, he's like my dad's age and running around in those ridiculous colored sunglasses and sparkly shirts looking all the world like a glam-rock The Fly (thank god that phase is over), but come on - Bad, With or Without You, One - these are all fantastic songs.

You can't convince me you don't sing along with them in the pub. Not a one of you.

Anyhow, how is Achtung Baby the stupidest album title? It's just there and bland, it's not like, say, Enter the Dragon. I still haven't figured out what that means.

The music itself is a bunch of hammy guitar effects pedal tricks, overlaid with a straining, toilet seat voice trying hard to be epic and enigmatic but just ending up thoroughly, soddenly middlebrow.

However their first LP - although still ultimately crap - was a leaner, artier thing, when they were grooving to northern soul and joy division. Worth checking out, if only to confrim to yourself it's a blind alley.

BTW where the fuck is the kudos attached to "meaning it"? Hitler meant it!

I read a funny story about John Lydon sacking his manager circa 1989 because he told him he should "try to be more like Bono". I wish I'd been a fly on the wall when that conversation took place..

i don't care how much joy division they listen to (i mean, so does mogwai from all accounts). the overcooked grandiose "epic" vocals and cornball lyrics ("we eat and drink while tomorrow they die" *slap*) and totally nondescript rhythm section ruin very promising guitar parts and eno's production. i'd at least listen to an instrumental album by the edge.

search: "new year's day"

if one doesn't like bono's voice or even bono himself, then there's not much you can do. though if you can dislike the band just because of bono, you probably don't much like the music in the first place. for example, i hate thom yorke. truly and thoroughly. but when the music's fine, i can put that aside. (stunning revelation: i quite like "pyramid song.")

i'm arguably the most classic rock person on this board, so it should be no surprise that i'm a sucker for their grandiose arena rock. here's a question: how many of you that rate the rolling stones a classic, rate u2 a dud?

Michael, I don't understand your argument. Is it of '50 000 000 Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong!' variety? The majority is always right, huh? Not that it even is a majority.

But I won't use the argument that U2 has millions of followers around the world, because so do NSYNC and Britney Spears, and we all know how talented (gag) they are. Instead, think about their 20+ year career history, and the number of hits they've produced. Whether someone likes U2's music or not should not be criteria in considering a group to be a classic. I'm not a Rolling Stones fan, but I have to admit, they are a classic, whether I like their music or not. U2 is in the same category- despite personal musical preference, they supercede personal taste because, in essence, THEY ARE A CLASSIC! You do not need to be a fan of U2's music to realize that they are a classic. Besides, how many are involved with Greenpeace, Amnesty International, etc etc and donate countless hours and money to causes, such as relieving 3rd world debt? Too many other rock groups are too high on coke and are too self-involved to partake.

Many of the previous arguments I've read are hardly convincing and seem petty, "U2 = dud, their music sucks and it's for old people and like, Bono's a twat and egomaniac...blah blah blah" So what if Bono's a drama queen? It's all part of the Rock act and makes it more interesting to the fans and followers (of which, you all know, they have millions). The group isn't just about Bono, come on, it's the entire package. U2 is without a doubt, a classic, and an undeniably great group.

Oh, that's a completely rubbish argument. Why is wrong for people to consider things on their own terms, and not accept pronouncements from Rolling Stone, Q et al at face value? I rather like the idea of people actually thinking for themselves instead of blindly accepting what they are told.

I can't hardly stand early U2 (whiny, monotonous, overblown), but everything from Joshua Tree on I find to be real groovy. Even Rattle & Hum. Achtung Baby is a great classic. The first side of Joshua Tree is flawless. Am I crazy?

Early U2 is quite clearly the bomb. The first three albums are glorious in their entirety. After that, they tend to be a mixed affair (the sole exception being _Achtung, Baby_ which is pretty much brilliant except for one song which is so dull that I can no longer recall its name or tune).

Are you sure you mean this? Though I entirely agree.

Look guys, U2 is a powerful band. They inspire extreme hatred in some people, but they inspire extreme love in far more. Regardless of how much Bono offends you (I'm still unclear as to how that can happen... he's quite harmless) the facts still stand: U2 is one of most artistically and commercially successful bands of all time.

Many of you mantain that they were good in the 80's but sold out in the 90's. I suggest looking up the word "irony" in the dictionary. During their ZooTV and PopMart stadium tours they flat out refused corporate sponsorship (unlike the Rolling $tones) and lost money as a result. Just as you wouldn't assume that a battered old book is of poor literary quality based on its cover, you shouldn't attribute shallowness to a band just because they have video screens and flashy lights.

And if U2 were a dud band, why would they go out of their way time after time after time to change their musical style, often against what is currently popular. 'War' was a big success, so why go do 'The Unforgettable'? If 'The Joshua Tree' made them the most popular thing to come out of Ireland since the potato, why do something like 'Rattle and Hum'? And if their earnest, save-the-whales style of the 80's worked so well, why in God's name would you go off with something like 'Achtung Baby' and ZooTV? And why then change into 'Pop'? Why?

Because they've got balls. U2 just keeps changing and growing, usually with success (UF, JT, Achtung) but sometimes getting burned (Rattle and Hum, Pop). Instead of choosing the quick and easy path by just repeating a familiar sound over and over, U2 never let the critics, the media, or any of you punks drag them down.

Because like the Beatles and the other established classic bands, U2's twenty-year career has been a continuous growth process. U2 just keeps evolving, so they ALWAYS HAVE SOMETHING NEW AND INTERESTING TO SAY.

And THAT is the critical component in seperating the wheat from the chaff. THAT is what makes U2 a classic, and THAT is what makes the Rolling $tones a dud.

Amen.

classic in the sense that they came out with a few good pop songs and records

dud in the fact that they are absolute crap now, are absoulute hypocrites and sellouts (the abc documentry sponsored by McDonalds, ticket prices only the rich can afford, bono dissing the "violence" by anti-capitolist protestors in Genoa whilst he was on a luxury yacht with tony blair without one mention of that protestor who was shot twice in the head, etc), were influenced by punk and yet at the same time sneered at the genre, along with the fact that bono's ego is larger than the size of the american continent and believes that the world revolves around him

i also think they ripped off depeche mode-badly-when they came out with achtung baby, only a few good songs on that record, and pop was much, much worse

i no longer buy u2 albums anymore, not even used

^ this

Depends what you mean by annoying, but if you mean "more likely to just go to a show because they can afford it, and spend the time talking and going for beer," then in my experience, yeah, probably a little more likely to be annoying. Or at least annoying in a distracting way.

my U2 experiences have been almost all positive with the crowds except the Joshua Tree nostalgia trip. very much a "just play the songs we know" crowd, which usually doesn't happen at their gigs. i'd hope the visual experience would drown out the tourists in this case, though.

the Rose Bowl experience was A+ bc we got there early and bonded in line w/a bunch of superfans, and one of them (an Australian rugby dude) advised us all on where to go to get in the inner circle, and we did and all met up again with that same group of people (whom we never saw again after that.)

Superfans at any show can sometimes be annoying, but in general fan communities are tons of fun and really friendly.

yeah true it can oscillate wildly from Drive by Truckers welcoming-party-crew-vibes one the cool end to Dave Matthews Band pyschofans shushing you for singing along at the other end (still have not fully gotten over that one)

*on the cool end

I didn't find the U2 crowd any different than any other big concert crowd, the vibe was fine

Experiences with superfans could be an amazing thread.

I had a full panic attack at the Rose Bowl U2 show and had to leave, but it had been decades since I had seen them last. I'd love to see Laser Floyd inside the sphere.

That would be the ultimate music experience

lol "U2 Presents: The Vegas Laser Floyd Experience."

I'm not saying that the band should go full-hologram, but honestly if they ditched the band and went full Laser Floyd with a good mix of Unforgettable Fire->Zooropa I'd definitely go check it out.

Ah, the old "just four holograms in a dome" routine...

Anyone ever see a Joshua Light Show gig?

So who's playing drums? That Guardian review just says Larry Mullen isn't...

From the setlists link above:

Note: First U2 show without Larry Mullen, Jr., Bram van den Berg on drums

Someone just sent me what is probably the best fan video from the U2 x Las Vegas Sphere event: Snoop. pic.twitter.com/jQMOG9vKLF

— Trung Phan (@TrungTPhan) October 1, 2023

Those sirens are a dead ringer the 1993 live intro to Lemon

I'm guessing it isn't Lemon

I'm only just seeing the setlist now. Big lol at the "Rattle and Hum interlude" slitting a hole into Achtung.

Anyway now to immediately see what Love Is Blindness sounds like live after 30 years. The Zoo TV version of that is maybe my favourite thing U2 have ever done.

Okay Love Is Blindness sounds excellent from the videos on YouTube. It reintroduces the lalalas from the album version which weren't there originally.

Arms Around the World seems on fine form too after the same amount of time.

weren't there originally live I mean

Holograms are not lasers!
We must maintain the purity of the Laser Floyd experience.

Bono truly missing the opportunity to reprise his Sinatra duet, which would have been fitting for a few different reasons.

That was the most arresting thing about the original Xoo TV production for me, falling through these idk star maps in slow motion for Love is Blindness, it was absolutely perfect, I wonder if they've replicated that.

You'd think it would be perfect - it's already planetarium shaped in there - but they've gone for silhouettes of butterflies and insects, increasing in quantity until they've blacked out almost the whole screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZIYLMM0ykE

Eugene Robinson of Oxbow has made U2 the subject of his latest newsletter:

He was quiet. Unusually quiet. Or at least unusual for an Irish cat from New York. It could have been the drink, or the night, but it was significant enough to warrant an intervention, or at least a query. In this case, what the hell was wrong?

“I just got back from Reno,” Shaughnessy said of “the biggest little city in the world”. This, in and of itself, may or may not have been a cause for sorrow. But I waited.

“I saw Steppenwolf.” Steppenwolf of the heavy leathers, fringed vests and overall bad-ass biker beards and suggestion of the same in the shape of their hit song “Born to Be Wild.”

“Did they play ‘Born to Be Wild’?”

“They were playing it as I walked in,” he said, his brows knit. “They were wearing rented tuxes. And did it lounge style.” He paused in a way that indicated that this was not at all for comedic effect.

“To be funny?”

“There was nothing funny about this at all.”

And so the last and enduring image is of the young turks having metastasized into old men just doing what old men do: looking for a warm place out of the rain where they might make a little scratch for having been any/everything but.

A distinctly mixed bag of circumstances because on the one hand like the Chinese proverb seems to imply — “Don’t laugh at the prostitute. Laugh at the poor person.” — there’s nothing wrong with getting that money. On the other hand like Joseph Welch once asked of Senator Joseph McCarthy, “have you no decency, sir?”

I’m unsure of what price is attached to decency but waking up this morning to news that the band U2 started their 25-night residency at Las Vegas’ MSG Sphere, complete with Paul McCartney, Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre in the house, I had started to wonder. Specifically, when did it happen that there was no social sanction at all for doing the lamest shit ever?

Or, more specifically, when did we outgrow shame?

And don’t hit me with the “get it? card”, as if this was some meta ploy to mine irony for all it’s worth and I just don’t…get it, that is. If you had unlimited funds and means and were limited only by your imagination is this where it carries you? Keep in mind this is also not a critique of U2’s music, music I haven’t listened to after they sang about boys meeting men in the shadows. I mean I guess their music is fine.

In reality I really have a soft spot in my heart for U2 as it was through their good graces that my group OXBOW actually managed to have a place to record, Windmill Lane in Dublin, when we recorded music for our Serenade in Red record, with vocals by Marianne Faithfull. Picking through the remnants of their equipment on the weekend that they were choosing not to work I got misty eyed about their graciousness, whether or not it was done specifically to help us.

Moreover, I remember when in some sort of turmoil my friend Bruce Lamont from the great band Yakuza admitted to me in a quiet moment that he had a side project. The side project in question? A Led Zeppelin cover band. And a Led Zeppelin cover band that not only seemed to be sanctioned by Robert Plant but also had just got a booking for a national tour of the House of Blues.

I was ecstatic, and said so. In the same way that you’d be if you had a friend who fought the law but instead of the law winning, it was your friend who had done so. It felt like a win for the little guy, like the house had taken one on the chin, and so how is it that the U2 deal is different?

And more importantly is it better or worse after the Apple iPod stunt?

For those with shorter memories, this was when Apple and U2, back in 2014, force fed the entire installed base of Apple users with the new U2 record, whether or not they had requested it. It felt like a muscle move, and for those of us who despair at how casually muscle moves are made, it was a casus belli.

Bono went on to apologize for said stunt. Which was probably the right PR move. Though it should also be noted that he has not backed away from the latest Jann Wenner imbroglio, which seems very much the wrong PR move, but you know what? I’m not big on apologizing. Especially after having a boss who would routinely require these as some form of ritual humiliation, I find them to be an extension of muscle, and lacking in authenticity.

In fact I dream of a malefactor standing at a podium to deliver a speech that I lust after with some sort of sexual intensity: “SO….you GOT me!” And then goes on to non-apologize in the most Christian of ways: “YOU who are sin-free step RIGHT UP!”

Even Trump, the most massive of line steppers, has pulled shy of doing this instead just opting for the systematic denial of the reality of experience.

But U2, replete with more money than G-d, critical accolades for the better part of their careers, and some small scintilla of integrity, pulls a Celine Dion and goes to the heart of a place that’s as steeped in corporate capital as any bank for…their fans? Their wallets? Their legacy? Even an exceedingly high Hunter S. Thompson dug on the soullessness of the Vegas endeavor and yet here they are.

And apologies to those Dion fans. HER being here makes total sense and seems to stem from a deep understanding of her place in space. So hats off to her.

But U2? Cui bono here?

Well, it seems we have 25 days to figure this out. As a touring musician I sort of understand it from a mountain going to Muhammad perspective: if OXBOW could do 16 shows in a row, like we just did, without driving to 16 different places, wouldn’t that be cool?

It would be. However if you think U2 is piling into a Mercedes Sprinter cargo van to scoot between shows you’re out of your mind. No, these climate conscious rockers are private jetting to gigs leaving me just where I was: why?

I guess if I could figure this out I’d be where they are instead of where I am, but where I am is just fine since it’s absent all of the nettlesome questions regarding, what the FUCK was I thinking? when I look in the mirror.

a dullard ponders

Dud.

Been looking through the various clips on YT, almost feel like polling the backgrounds, Streets is amazing.

We should have a dedicated SPHERE thread

Only if it's for these guys.

https://i.discogs.com/7BTVwvw83IN53TUVy9Bn3_oHmQebRVFbqkeb6994jII/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:516/w:400/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9BLTIwMTEw/ODEtMTUwMTAxNDg1/OC0xNzM4LmpwZWc.jpeg

I like how the sphere looks from the outside.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7TXe66WkAADFRR?format=jpg&name=large

https://www.zeyusmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Akira-WW3-Explosion-2.jpg

Wait, is no one going to invoke the Saudi Orb?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNOcem4Vwtkkh0OsYF0-IahlFNvpHCzbBKEw&usqp=CAU

https://musicimage.xboxlive.com/catalog/video.movie.8D6KGWZL5VBW/image?locale=fr-be&mode=crop&purposes=BoxArt&q=90&h=300&w=200&format=jpg

Feel like this is my most listened to bootleg ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN-oQWqrDi4

It's not even the best PopMart boot - it sadly omits the Lemon Perfecto mix and obv a lot is missed out by not having the visuals - but it just sounds so great.

I heard what must be a new (to me) U2 song on the radio today, something called "Atomic City." It's fine, and sounds a bit like "Big Neon Glitter" by the Cult. I think it was maybe released to promote the Vegas thing. I'd paste the video but ... nah, it's basically a commercial, and the band seems bored.

That single was depressing. By far the most memorable thing about it was the hook they borrowed from Blondie's "Call Me." I get it's an homage, but with little of value to add, the record suggested they were out of ideas.

(For new records that is - they still put on a good spectacle.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXfwz0fMWdQ

Cool. They look so strange stuck on that little stage after so many vast sets. I bet Bono is relieved not to have to run around the whole time.

I saw the band pop up in the news again, was it just because the Vegas residency ended?

Apparently Larry was there but is still recovering from his surgery. And I guess Bono hasn't been seen playing guitar since his bike accident, too. Age or injury eventually gets everybody.

Well, Bono has never been particularly good at playing the guitar, so not much is lost. That may be harsh but it's the case. Even when he played, it was mixed low and made little difference.

i think the Vegas stuff has worked out really well for them, kind of the opposite of the iPhone shit. using this venue as a way to get back into the conversation after several albums which didn't do the trick was pretty sharp.

I was surprised to learn a few years ago that Bono's playing the only electric guitar on Roy Orbison's "She's a Mystery to Me" besides Orbison himself.

the footage looked rad as hell tbh