Obviously Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer, Fugees have much to answer for.
― Guy, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dave q, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Andrew L, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
(sweeping generalisation, check. snappy statement, check. Another Quality post from Andrew!)
― Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
You are *so* on crack if you're talking about the first album.
Low point -- Tupac being considered a Deep and Meaningful Artist. ;-)
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― nathalie, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Ugh, that movie was filmed about two miles from my flat.
Anyway, a low point must have been the early novelty rap by whites who assumed this hip-hop thing was a cute little fad: Rappin' Duke, Ronnie Reagan, Rodney and so forth.
― scott p., Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Vanilla Ice, of course, but not for "Ice Ice Baby" or even "I Love You". The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle rap, for sure. And, yes, Hammer, but not for his populist Jams-dancing crap, not even for *shudder* the Adams Family tie-in, but for actually going GANGSTA. _The Funky Headhunter_. No, no, no.
Referencing the Sugar / Bob Mould thread - I heard he "raps" on his newest album (on one track). That's probably atrocious as all get out.
― David Raposa, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Bill, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Omar, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
the new Bubba Sparkxxx video.
Jay-Z's entire career
― Michael Taylor, Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Hey, what brought this on? ;-)
― lady die, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
LOW POINT: Adina Howard's "Freak Like Me" (if that counts).
― alex in nyc, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Billy Dods, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― stevie, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Phil-Two, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
don't really know what 'search or dud?' means, however i do feel compelled to defend european hip hop, or more accurately british hip hop. read it and weep americans, we got two hip hop aces right now in roots manuva and manchester's rae and christian.
as for the worst hip hop record, it would be a crime if skee-los "i wish.." was excluded from the list. a song about being small by a diminutive rapper who named himself after a yoghurt.
― littleboy, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I think the track I have the biggest problem with is going to be "Whoomp There It Is". I mean, what the fuck? There what is?
― Ally, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― M. Matos, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Phil-Two, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Billy Dods, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ronan, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
*Tim makes no guarantees that "Freak Like Me" is in fact the best song ever. However, he really really likes it. Still, how is it hip hop?
― Tim, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― alex in nyc, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dan Perry, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
So, is there really a difference between hip-hop and rap? Is hip-hop rap w/ more R&B overtones? Educate my ass, please.
And I always thought KRS-One's contribution to REM's "Radio Song" erred on the wrong side of crap. Apologies if this was mentioned already.
― David Raposa, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ally, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I actually like Mase's mumbly tone of voice -- it's everything else about him that sucks. Sensational is an MC with an even mumblier, stoneder tone of voice, but he's actually good. His guest spot on the Handsome Boy Modeling School album (perhaps one of the best albums in rap) was just awesome.
― Squirrel Police, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― ethan, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
If you can give me a reason why Ma$e isn't a boil on hip-hop's ass rather than just calling me names, I'll listen. Until then, you're proving my theory that people whole like Ma$e are either 10 or dipshits.
1) his incredible production.
2) the line about rocking from cancun to grant's tomb in 'feel so good'.
3) his fascinating persona.
4) the fact that he's such a safe choice for hip-hop illiterates to make fun of that even dave cocksucking popshots took a misguided cheap shot at him. hey dave, stick to what you shamefully know about all of your godforsaken indie bands instead of parroting some weak joke you saw on chris rock show.
5) 'i'm the reason they made the dress code / they thought i wouldn't wild out when i'm in my french clothes'
he was the first in the 'mo money, mo problems' line-up for christ's sake! i honestly don't understand how he became some universal answer to the wack mc question, he's competant enough to hold his own on anything i've heard, and has outrhymed puffy on more than one occasion. conclusion: hating on ma$e is fucking played, he's not the best but he's good enough and hardly the 'low point' in hip- hop.
Calm down, take a pill, it'll make your posts a lot more easy to respond to for everyone involved. I mean, hell, I mostly AGREE with you that all this thread has proven is how little this board knows about hip-hop and rap (the Jay-Z slams and the Biggie slams are my personal favorite), but you ain't seein' me turning around telling anyone who hates Jigga to go fuck themselves because they are so far beneath my level of Jay knowledge that they might as well go commit suicide because they aren't fucking worth my time.
Capiche? Purely friendly advice.
― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
So what? What did Ma$e have to do with his production? NOTHING. Ma$e's production is one area where I'm willing to give Puffy credit. I do not credit Ma$e with shit.
I'm sorry, but that entire song is dumb as shit. It's akin to watching an idiot getting his ego stroked by the popular kids so that they can make fun of him behind his back. The only good things in the song have nothing to do with Ma$e; the beat is nice and the female dancers in the video are slammin'. As a platform for Mc skills, it's awful.
The only fascinating thing he did was quit the music business for the ministry, and it's not even like that's the first time that's happened (see, for example, Pebbles). His entire media persona was like a retarded version of Puffy. Ooh, how fascinating!
Now you're showing up the big weakness in your defense right there. You're only four points in, can only make one point about his skills which comes down not to delivery or flow, but one line in the first single he released, then you go on to say that he's an easy target for ridicule. If he's so damn good, why is he an easy target for ridicule? I'll answer for you; it's because he's a fucking awful MC whose sole purpose for existence was to prolong the fucking of Biggie's dead corpse so that Puffy could line his pockets with more cash. Do you honestly think that Ma$e would have had any type of commercial success had Puffy not introduced at the height of the post-Biggie Bad Boy mania?
This is another stupid line.
he was the first in the 'mo money, mo problems' line-up for christ's sake!
And? Ma$e's entire function in that song is to make Puffy look credible before Biggie's verse kicks in. The track itself is kind of amazing because Ma$e's verse is so limpid and wrong that Puffy seems like a breath of fresh air. Then, Biggie's verse drops and you realize that Puffy is actually a gigantic hunk of shit.
i honestly don't understand how he became some universal answer to the wack mc question, he's competant enough to hold his own on anything i've heard, and has outrhymed puffy on more than one occasion.
Jesus Christ. My nuts could occasionally outrhyme Puffy. Sometimes being better than someone who is shit does not mean that you are not shit, particularly when more often than not the shit sounds good after you step away from the mic. As far as holding his own with others is concerned, the MCs on the Bad Boy label after Puffy's death were so horrible that a hemmrhoidal monkey could have jumped up on stage and shown everyone its ass and it would have been just as entertaining.
The majority of the Bad Boy Mcs are good for dancefloor fillers that you don't have to think very hard about. There is nothing wrong with that; in fact, it's a perfectly laudable go and I've got tons and tons of records in many genres that were created with that goal in mind. HOWEVER, don't even try to compare the lyrical skills of a no-talent simpleton like Ma$e with people like Biggy, Tupac, Digital Underground, Jay-Z, Nas, Ludacris, anyone in Wu-Tang, Eminem, or even fucking Insane Clown Posse, because the sad motherfucker does not rate and never will. People get dumber just from listening to his shit.
Well considering three other people have all said, in short unspecific format, the exact same thing, don't you feel like a cockfarming tosser now? I understand that your posts aren't 100% serious, Ethan (I mean, if they were and you were honestly this psychotic, someone would've killed you by now, if you hadn't already self-destructed), which is why I don't reply to them in kind 99% of the times and instead try to point out to you why people are consistently taking you the "wrong way". I understand that you are a particularly childish, stupid and immature little boy. I understand that. I love you for it. I also understand that a lot of other people are going to read the absolutely derogatory, disgusting and irritating way you talk to everyone around here, decide you are serious, and start shit with you and that if you want to avoid being treated like an asshole, you shouldn't act like such a psychotic dickhead.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation, fuckwad.
dan: against this very thoughtful and well- reasoned response, i merely offer that you are a fan of the insane clown posse. if there is anyone else on this forum who would like to put forth that those wacky 'rappers' from icp are somehow better than ma$e in any way, shape, or form, please come forth now and explain.
ned: no.
'ally cat': the only problem with 'posting style' i see here is that you have somehow used your wonderful magnetic personality to somehow redirect this thread to be about my apparent inability to communicate above an 'eight-year old's level'. hey, at least i can 'motherfucking' stay on the 'fucking' topic instead of making bizarre unprovoked attacks. i mean, hello, your posting style isn't exactly, like, totally the greatest either, duh, but you don't see me writing a fucking manifesto on it. if you want to play mommy so bad, go find one of the many ilmers who would filthily jump at the chance, i'm tired of your endless posts 'for my own good'. can't you just fucking ignore me like you claim to so often? oh wait, i hope i didn't say 'fuck' too many times.
This I have to hear. Though I don't want a live demonstration, please.
Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope know that they're wack MCs. Much of their schtick is based on extraordinarily dodgy rhymes done for comedic effect. Ma$e, while he was still in the business, just knew he was the best MC out there. I'm much more willing to listen to someone who sucks in a funny way than someone who sucks in a self-aggrandizing, aggravating way. Also, while the things J and Shaggy are saying tend to be extraordinarily boneheaded, they at least do so with a reasonable sense of flow (particularly on the first three albums). Ma$e sounds as if he has his eyes closed and is desperately reeling off words that someone taught him by rote because he couldn't read fast enough to keep up with the beat.
I should point out that the two ICP albums everyone knows, _The Great Milenko_ and _The Amazing Jeckel Brothers_, are not very good. In fact, _TAJB_ sucks ass.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Professor Griff
― Myonga Vön Bontee, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 21:26 (fifteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Friday, September 7, 2001 8:00 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― and what, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 21:28 (fifteen years ago) link
i remember seeing puffy (who i can't say that i hate; i still dig "Can't Nobody Hold Me Down") and jimmy page doing that kashmir thing on SNL(?) and thinking that was pretty terrible
― flyover statesman (will), Wednesday, 15 October 2008 21:33 (fifteen years ago) link
best 00s Pac single poll?
― Annoying Display Name (blueski), Wednesday, 15 October 2008 21:34 (fifteen years ago) link
I saw the video for that Nelly duet with the Kelly Rowland and my god it made me want to stab a hobo puppy.
― Granny Dainger, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 21:36 (fifteen years ago) link
no way, this has some of the sickest drumming ever. just looked for it on youtube but it gotten taken down ;_;
― Jordan, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 21:39 (fifteen years ago) link
haha yeah i totally remember that drummer being a beast
― some dude, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 21:58 (fifteen years ago) link
I can't forget itWhy you did itI won't permit itAnd won't acquit itI want to fight youI'll fucking bite youCan't stand nobody like youYou can't runYou can't hideNo surpriseClose your eyesCome with me, yeah
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 22:07 (fifteen years ago) link
this thread is crazy
― t_g, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 23:08 (fifteen years ago) link
speaking of crazy...i really loved it when gnarls barkley really took hip hop to a new, more intelligent level....great album
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 23:11 (fifteen years ago) link
and no one thought to mention Ca$h Money or No Limit records? I mean "'bout it, 'bout it", "bling, bling"....some of the most cringe worthy stuff on commercial radio in the past ten years. Each label had it's exceptions, but mostly the songs they put out were vomitrocious.
― kevin says relax
LWJLEJFEWIJGLEIWJFLIDSJFLDSJFISJ Fldsijfldjslfjfl;sdjf;lijelivjleirnvlirjflrejf
― what U cry 4 (jim), Wednesday, 15 October 2008 23:17 (fifteen years ago) link
http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-10-05.gif
― cool app (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 15 October 2008 23:35 (fifteen years ago) link
it's always great when rap music incorporates other influences so that they manage to transcend the genre.
― t_g, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 23:41 (fifteen years ago) link
Geir?
― nabisco, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 23:56 (fifteen years ago) link
That you, buddy?
― nabisco, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 23:57 (fifteen years ago) link
nabisco i saw you interviewing robyn on pitchfork tv, and what struck me was that for the last 2 minutes she basically turned into geir hongro...did you notice this too or am i too quick to leap on scandinavians blathering about melody
― 100 tons of hardrofl beyond zings (Just got offed), Thursday, 16 October 2008 00:15 (fifteen years ago) link
I used to love "Pushin Weight" by Ice Cube when it came out!! that song and video was hilarious,
also, this is weird:
It's Top Genre worldwide, sure
british dude? or what...
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Thursday, 16 October 2008 00:49 (fifteen years ago) link
i've never liked hip-hop
― abusive comments (PappaWheelie V), Thursday, 16 October 2008 04:16 (fifteen years ago) link
four-ish words:
N. 2. GETHER. NOW.
― Cannabis Zed Omega (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 16 October 2008 04:31 (fifteen years ago) link
The real answer is, and always be, despite the highlights, mid-1985.
It was the era where the industry gave up on it being more than a "fad" after the breakdancing movies either failed to r.o.i., or failed to get made altogether (Cry of the City), but right before Russell Simmons signed his CBS M&D deal and made Krush Groove...therefore, a host of novelty records filled the gap acting as johnny come latelies.
Or, you're old like me, and haven't cared for hip-hop since the mid-to-late 90s.
Whichever.
― abusive comments (PappaWheelie V), Thursday, 16 October 2008 04:35 (fifteen years ago) link
Haha, this thread is amazing... In 2001 the lowest points of hip-hop included 2Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, "Crossroads", and gangsta rap. Has the ILM consensus really changed that much in 7 years, or have most of the 2001 posters simply left the board?
― Tuomas, Thursday, 16 October 2008 07:11 (fifteen years ago) link
Oh yeah, and Digital Underground too. I can see some validity of criticizing 2Pac, Biggie or Jay-Z, but how can anyone think DU suck?
― Tuomas, Thursday, 16 October 2008 07:13 (fifteen years ago) link
You have to remember it was Dave Q who said that.
― A. FIND MISSING LINK B. PUT IT TOGETHER C. BANG! (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 16 October 2008 07:26 (fifteen years ago) link
also freak like me and missy. such a weird thread.
― t_g, Thursday, 16 October 2008 08:03 (fifteen years ago) link
The alleged "golden age" of ILM.
― A. FIND MISSING LINK B. PUT IT TOGETHER C. BANG! (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 16 October 2008 08:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Hip-Hop: The Lol Point
― SIR -- (The Reverend), Thursday, 16 October 2008 20:33 (fifteen years ago) link
― Jordan, Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:39 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― some dude, Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i am 90% sure that drummer is mario winans
― max, Thursday, 16 October 2008 20:43 (fifteen years ago) link
make that 100%: Soon after, Winans teamed up with P. Diddy and his Bad Boy roster. His first work with Bad Boy was playing drums on "Come With Me" in 1998 by Diddy and Jimmy Page, based on the classic Led Zeppelin song "Kashmir" from their 1975 album Physical Graffiti.
― max, Thursday, 16 October 2008 20:44 (fifteen years ago) link
wow, that is crazy
― Jordan, Thursday, 16 October 2008 20:47 (fifteen years ago) link
here's the video: http://www.imeem.com/camphorhall/video/4o-IqpBJ/puff_daddy_feat_mario_winans_and_jimmy_page_come_with_me_mu/
― Jordan, Thursday, 16 October 2008 20:52 (fifteen years ago) link
4:00 - 4:30, mario winans u bad
― Jordan, Thursday, 16 October 2008 20:59 (fifteen years ago) link
(actually it's not quite as crazy as i remember it but still)
lol I like how I made a complete 180 on Missy
― Like sicking a little bit of water into my mouth (HI DERE), Thursday, 16 October 2008 21:08 (fifteen years ago) link
can't fathom ever having hated on Missy - she was awesome from the first single
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 16 October 2008 21:14 (fifteen years ago) link
I really hated the first single, was lukewarm on the second and really loved the third. At the time, I was still very much in "if it's not A Tribe Called Quest, it's CRAP!"-mode.
― Like sicking a little bit of water into my mouth (HI DERE), Thursday, 16 October 2008 21:15 (fifteen years ago) link
hahahaha lolz awesome
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 16 October 2008 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link
it was really the video that sold me on it - I think when I first heard it I had come across the Graham Central Station version a few weeks prior and was sorta nonplussed by her minimal take on it. but the video... I was like "oh yes FINALLY a weird arty female success story for hip hop - more plz"
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 16 October 2008 21:18 (fifteen years ago) link
By the third video I was hooked on her visual style but most of the time, as I stated above, I really wanted her to sing instead of rap. It really wasn't until "She's A Bitch" that I started appreciating her rhyming.
― Like sicking a little bit of water into my mouth (HI DERE), Thursday, 16 October 2008 21:21 (fifteen years ago) link
i remember just getting worn out with get ur freak on, but she really has been consistently great
― flyover statesman (will), Thursday, 16 October 2008 21:24 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah that one got a bit overexposed
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 16 October 2008 21:27 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm surprised no one's mentioned Jah Rule
― matt o, Friday, 17 October 2008 00:00 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned either rap songs that contain the word "low" in the title, or rappers that have the word "Lo" as part of their name.
― Carrie Bradshaw Layfield (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Friday, 17 October 2008 00:06 (fifteen years ago) link
baby girl you telling liescuz when i look you in yo face i cna see im on yo mindand it dont matter when them hoez may say i know your love is blindfor me, every bitch needs a thug nigger in their lifecould it be you enjoy me fucking you, while you be loving metrick and destroy us mentallythats why they freak wit me frequently love is life (?)[...]being nokio's a bit muchi got bitches in the states that love ta suck i got bitches overseas that love to fuck what the fuck yall want from me?ghetto celebrity from b'moremurderer do-or-die from N-Yand everbody's here rightN-O-K-I-O, baby, R to the U-L-E, babyknow a lot of yall bitches hate me cuz you cant relate to me what the fuck you want from me?let them hoes know not a thingice they wrists neck ear and ringyou are everything
from what i remember of a ja rule song on sisqo's CD. lol @ my memory from being 12
― Kevin Keller, Friday, 17 October 2008 00:10 (fifteen years ago) link
I want to change my answer and say the low point of hip-hop / rap is the fact that Missy Elliot exists.― AllyMissy Elliot just needs to sing. She's great when she sings and HOOOOOOOORIBLE when she speaks (I refuse to call that rapping).― Dan Perry
― Ally
Missy Elliot just needs to sing. She's great when she sings and HOOOOOOOORIBLE when she speaks (I refuse to call that rapping).
― Dan Perry
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:14 (nine years ago) link
would have been a better revive if you'd left the date stamps on
― pissbaby nobody in the corner (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:30 (nine years ago) link
2001.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:40 (nine years ago) link
those new "classic hip-hop" radio stations play "get ur freak on" SO MUCH and i'm already sick of it, it's like the hotel california of rap
― example (crüt), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:55 (nine years ago) link