― MarkH, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I think Reynolds nailed it when he described jungle as having arrived at a fully-formed image of itself and then realising it had nowhere else to go. What made the early years of jungle so exciting was that producers kept on throwing in stuff from way out of leftfield in a series of inspired mistakes that got churned over and spat out with what now seems like amazing haste. Now that drum & bass is literally just that, there's much less room for innovation or development.
On the other hand, what was arguably just as important to jungle's deterioration was the shift from, say, 4-bar rhythm loops to basically one-bar loops; a technique possibly inspired by post-Mills techno, and certainly the defining factor in the two styles' strange similarity. The one-bar loops give drum & bass of the last couple of years a sort of oppressive, numbing feel that even the most nasty early techstep avoided. Unsurprisingly, when producers like Paradox or Klute pull out complex-but-dancable breakbeat arrangements my ears automatically prick up with excitement.
I don't think jungle sounds particularly dated now. As a cultural reference point there's a certain datedness about it (although the general UK dance music press has been overwhelmingly positive about the scene for the last six months or so, to a perhaps unwarranted/undeserved degree. I dunno - I don't go out dancing as much as I used to), but the music is to my ears still astonishingly fresh.
There's something so, I don't know, frontier-like about the best jungle, like you're standing at the edge of a yawning musical crevice that no-one, neither producer nor audience, has yet learnt how to cross. In that sense I think jungle's only chance to really surge forward again would be a shift in recording technology as with glitch vis a vis techno, especially if it combined with a generational/geographical shift of recording artists.
All this said, I'm currently listening to Certificate Eighteen Records' latest Hidden Rooms compilation (number 3) and it's astonishingly good - a good reminder that, yo, minimalism can be a good thing.
― Tim, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dave q, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Mickey Black Eyes, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
In the canon goes:
Dread Bass - Dead Dread, maybe my favourite jungle tune ever.
Shadowboxing - Nasty Habits, maybe my favourite dance tune ever.
The Water Margin - Photek
Music - Bukem
Terrorist - Ray Keith (iirc)
The License - Krome & Time
Squadron - Ed Rush
Mindweaver - Source Direct
Music Box - Roni Size
B.S.T.-era A Guy Called Gerald
Thru the Vibe - Omni Trio
and loads more...
― Omar, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
1. Omni Trio - "Renegade Snares (Foul Play VIP Mix)" 2. Leviticus - "The Burial" 3. Danny Breaks - "Droppin Science Vol. 2" 4. DJ Hype - "Rrrol Da Beats" 5. Ganja Kru - "Computerised Cops (Pascal Remix)" 6. Foul Play - "Open Your Mind" 7. Marvellous Cain - "The Hitman" 8. Dillinja - "The Angels Fell" 9. DJ Zinc - "Super Sharp Shooter" 10. Dead Dred - "Dred Bass"
(Note, most of my favorite breakbeat tracks are actually hardcore tunes...I tried to limit it to stuff which is generally regarded as "jungle.")
― jess, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
1) Jungle was actually in many ways slower than the hardcore that preceded it, 'cos while the breaks were very fast the dub basslines running at half-speed allowed dancers to dance slower and gave the music the sensation of a groove. It did speed up slightly around late '98, but really I think the sensation of oppressive speed arises from the fact that most of the tracks since then have been locked grooves - there's no development across bars, whether it be rhythms, basslines or melodic arrangements.
2) The music actually underwent a tonne of cross-hybridisation with different musical styles, of which dancehall, dub, ambient, jazz, funk, hip hop, Belgian hardcore and minimalist techno are only the most prominent. There's even been attempts to forge links with house (see Alex Reece, Nookie's collaborations with Larry Heard and some of Doc Scott's recent work) and R&B (vocal bootlegs done by folks like Ganja Kru and Teebee). A lot of that has in the last couple of years been cut out of the equation or paired down to formalist cliches - again, to jungle's loss.
― Kodanshi, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
The best jungle of course was the superbly uncoordinated, sometimes arrythmic mixes which came out of Rush FM/Touchdown FM/ad infinitum circa '91-3, preferably listened to in a smelly alley in Pimlico.
Destroyed by re-christening as "drum and bass" and fatal aspiration towards "proper music" by artisans whom we would prefer to view as iconoclasts but who really saw Hancock's "Headhunters" as their Sermon on the Mount. That bloody Fender Rhodes.
Kill all canons.
― Marcello Carlin, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― jess, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Timothy, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― turner, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Tim, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― gareth, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Last time I went to a club, you had Peshay in one packed hall playing really fast and boring jungle. In the other hall DJ Assault scratched every sort of dance music into one happy holistic NOW. Too bad a lot of people weren't paying attention.
― Omar, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― David Gunnip, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
the ss/formation axis seems to have been shunted out of the picture a little when it comes to looking back over jungle?
― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 15 December 2002 01:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chupa-Cabras (vicc13), Sunday, 15 December 2002 01:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:38 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:49 (twenty years ago) link
A lot of the best jungle comps are out of print now. DJ Hype did a couple last year that collected a lot of the classics tho. "Jungle Massive 2002" I believe it was called.
― Ben Williams, Sunday, 25 May 2003 16:12 (twenty years ago) link
There are a few Hype classic mixes. One called Old Skool Classics: In The Mix is very good.
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 25 May 2003 17:43 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Sunday, 25 May 2003 18:46 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Sunday, 25 May 2003 18:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 25 May 2003 18:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 25 May 2003 19:20 (twenty years ago) link
Other impressions: it sounds so contemporary, but it doesn't sound that much more than contemporary. Maybe I should just shut up and listen since I'm only up to track two or three. Hmmmm. I wish there weren't that continuous WOMP (it doesn't really sound like that). I like the loose part of drum n bass, but I don't like the heavy bam bam regularlity of it. Maybe that's just in some songs and not all. For "Heavy bam bam regularlity" think of the rhythm Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the U.S.A." But I like the nervous, scatteriness in drum n bass, though maybe not in huge doses.
Oh here we go again: "Remember the ti-imes we shared!"
― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 26 May 2003 14:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 26 May 2003 15:58 (twenty years ago) link
rockist, it's a bit of a controversial choice, but if you want a nice mix of the ants-in-your-pants rhythm stuff and the jazzy vibe, look for the first metalheadz platinum breakz comp which you can still sometimes find in borders and such.
― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 26 May 2003 16:08 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Monday, 26 May 2003 16:19 (twenty years ago) link
the reason i say i don't think the brazilian drum 'n' bass stuff sounds very latin is because its basically the same beats as english d'n'b, rather than some cool merengue fusion or something. i haven't listened to lots of it so maybe i haven't heard the best stuff, but sticking some lilting guitar on top doesn't really make it stand out imho.
― Ben Williams, Monday, 26 May 2003 16:27 (twenty years ago) link
I haven't heard that much of this stuff myself. Maybe as few as a half dozen CDs worth, plus the odd drum n bass element that will turn up in other contexts.
― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 26 May 2003 16:31 (twenty years ago) link
"Platinum Breakz" is wonderful, yes. Volume II is pretty good as well - kind of like the death throes of rhythmic complexity as techstep/neurofunk took over completely.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 01:00 (twenty years ago) link
rockist - you want the ministry of sound's "back to the old skool drum and bass", even though it's not actually 100% old skool.
am i the only person that bought platinum breakz vol. 3 and enforcers vol. 3?
― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 02:44 (twenty years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 03:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 03:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 03:47 (twenty years ago) link
And it's SO dead in the water.
― russ t, Tuesday, 27 May 2003 09:07 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 09:20 (twenty years ago) link
anyway, i'm gonna back up gareth and agree that Formation just don't get its dues for how important it was then back in the early to mid-90s (maybe because it lost its way big-time after that). in its prime, they'd remix their big tunes countless time, so that you'd go every week and get lost in a maze of VIP pressure. The Highly Recommended comp stands up so well.
― nebbesh (nebbesh), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 11:42 (twenty years ago) link
― nebbesh (nebbesh), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 11:54 (twenty years ago) link
chai. cushions...spring heel jack. a live drummer (that guy from that cleveland watkiss thing?). a big ugly dancefloor like a basketball court. vision like they hadn't turned off the house lights.
a group of punters trying to dance.
hands a-jitter like 70's kung fu stars whose nylon mustaches are about to fade... and whose stuttering pose on frame declares the machine malfunctioing if not broke.
no movement below the hips. well, none other than skittering.
phew, the tracks are loOoong.
so after a couple of "tunes" a large group of them sat down. like a pictic in the, by now, otherwise uninhabited wilds of the dancefloor. and stayed sitting down, chatting and moving their hands, for the rest of the set.
― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 12:02 (twenty years ago) link
And for the record - accept it... jungle is music for people who have absolutely no natural rhythm. Ugly music. It's the genre that the genuine clubbers avoid like the plague because of the hideous attitude and violence that it's associated with. Uusally because most 'junglists' are aged 15.
And I never ever went to any clubs where jungle would get people err... 'tearing out'. And I live in Bristol, mate, one of the natural original homes of jungle, so there aint nothing you can preach or teach to me about the genre.
Jungle - you'll be hiding your jungle vinyl with acute embarrassment in a few years. See also Happy Hardcore, another kiddie genre.
Deeply dud, extremely nasty.
― russ t, Tuesday, 27 May 2003 12:28 (twenty years ago) link
If you go here you can d/l a load of mix tapes from '91 - '95 by Bukem, Randall, Hype, Peshay, Jumpin' JAck Frost and Mickey Finn.
I hope somebody enjoys...
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 4 August 2005 22:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― ghetty green (eman), Friday, 5 August 2005 03:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― ghetty green (eman), Friday, 5 August 2005 03:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― Raw P, Friday, 5 August 2005 09:47 (eighteen years ago) link
Excellent tracker for mixsets - loads of old school amongst many others.
― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 5 August 2005 13:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― strng hlkngtn, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:30 (eighteen years ago) link
(that site does not show up in safari for some reason)
― amon (eman), Thursday, 11 August 2005 03:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 11 August 2005 05:20 (eighteen years ago) link
Thanks for the links!
(ps how cool is it reading vintage ILM!)
― Mika, Thursday, 11 August 2005 06:07 (eighteen years ago) link
it's times like this i am glad i don't have broadband.
― strng hlkngtn, Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:55 (eighteen years ago) link
i've gone for the K&S/Goldie and Grooverider sets from '96 for starters. I would like to hear a 94/95 jump up set tho - which of the ones on the page do you recommend the most?
― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 05:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 18 August 2005 05:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 18 August 2005 06:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Thursday, 18 August 2005 06:47 (eighteen years ago) link
Is that a Method Man vocal sample on it?
― Neil Stewart (Neil Stewart), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link
i need to get this: Ray Keith's Vintage Dread
or at least i need to get a copy of 'Sing Time' RIGHT NOW
― blueski, Thursday, 26 July 2007 23:05 (sixteen years ago) link
:D
(didn't know about TrackItDown site, looks good)
― blueski, Thursday, 26 July 2007 23:07 (sixteen years ago) link
Radical Sound's "What Is Love (VIP Mix)" - just because. (also I increasingly think this is the greatest) http://www.zshare.net/download/86436989db6c28/
― Tim F, Saturday, 8 March 2008 21:47 (sixteen years ago) link
Marcello is my hero.
-- jess, Saturday, September 1, 2001 12:00 AM (6 years ago) Bookmark Link
― ian, Saturday, 8 March 2008 23:00 (sixteen years ago) link
i played some (non-jungle) records at the local drum and bass night the other night, but after me one of my friends dropped a set of early-mid 90's atmospheric jungle. it was so beautiful, it almost made me want to cry when he dropped "atlantis (i need you)". wonderful shit.
― pipecock, Sunday, 9 March 2008 01:38 (sixteen years ago) link
I've been rocking DJ Rap's "Journeys Through The Land Of Drum 'N' Bass" for the last couple of weeks and it's really nice. Okay, so it's got 'd&b' in the title but this is very much jungle on the cusp of d&b. How cool is it that she included an old Carl Craig track (as Urban Culture) - 'Woders of the wishing' as well as FSOL's 'Papau New Guinea'. Refreshingly open minded for a commercial mix cd. I'm glad I picked it up.
http://www.discogs.com/release/125712
― sam500, Sunday, 9 March 2008 03:02 (sixteen years ago) link
>Radical Sound's "What Is Love (VIP Mix)" - just because. (also I increasingly think this is the greatest)
Thanks for the link, Tim - that track is f'cking *mint*!
On a heartbreaking junglistic note, I dug out my original (CD) copy of Moving Shadow & Sub Base's "The Joint LP" with an ear to relive a bit of the old "Breaks The Unbreakable" magic and the CD has crapped out! There's not a scratch on the disc, but when I try to play it in any player it makes awful "skittering" noises in the background of every track.
I tried to rip it to burn a copy and the same thing happened. Of my couple of thousand CDs this is the FIRST one that I have had this problem with; I know people talk about CDs having a limited lifespan, but is there any way to rescue this?
― Bill A, Monday, 10 March 2008 13:37 (sixteen years ago) link
Also, if the description "dance music you can't dance to" can be applied to Cabaret Voltaire, how much more can it be applied to Jungle!
It may be tricky to do so with grace or style, but it's still enormous fun to bust a move to! There's nothing quite like the explosion of movement which occurs on the drops in a sweaty jungle/dnb club.
― chap, Monday, 10 March 2008 14:02 (sixteen years ago) link
I totally love Lexis, who made cinematic, beautifully sculpted post-techstep for Certificate 18 in the late 90s. Posting "Irrampent", one of my favourites by him - the beats on this are mindbogglingly good: http://www.zshare.net/audio/87602446672097/
― Tim F, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 06:41 (sixteen years ago) link
DJ Rap & Voyager's provocatively-titled Intelligence album from 1995 is actually very good! I didn't know it existed until I stumbled across it in a shop.
Except that the motivational R&B (meets Kate Bush circa The Sensual World) ballad "Two Loves" should be the first entry in a thread titled "Weirdly Compelling Strategic Errors"
― Tim F, Monday, 31 March 2008 14:33 (sixteen years ago) link
Heh Voyager is Pete Parsons (who is like the engineer on a million jungle tracks.) Never heard this either (except for "Ruffest Gunnark" and Engineers Without Fears version of "Spiritual Aura"--no idea if either mix is the same, but both originals are quite good.) I'd forgotten how ridiculously attractive she was. Definitely a DJ who jungle's faceless DJ/producer meme did no favors for.
― Alex in SF, Monday, 31 March 2008 16:15 (sixteen years ago) link
yeah she was my crush #1 between the releases of 'spitirual aura' and her solo pop single 'bad girl'
― blueski, Monday, 31 March 2008 17:30 (sixteen years ago) link
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/4d/da/f05d828fd7a07c9bc122f010._AA240_.L.jpg
?
― Jordan, Monday, 31 March 2008 17:35 (sixteen years ago) link
Had one of those fleeting thoughts this afternoon and yeehaw the Internet comes up trumps again:
http://www.oneinthejungle.com/
Substantial archive of One in the Jungle sets for your listening pleasure. Good times.
― SB OK (Noodle Vague), Monday, 27 June 2011 18:23 (twelve years ago) link
This is gold, NV!
― kkvgz, Monday, 27 June 2011 18:49 (twelve years ago) link
Isn't it? This site: http://www.allcrew.co.uk/pages/jungle.html has a few full shows by the looks of it.
― SB OK (Noodle Vague), Monday, 27 June 2011 19:09 (twelve years ago) link
thanks noodle.any standouts? duds?what's up with the "alternate versions"?
― m0stlyClean, Tuesday, 28 June 2011 01:37 (twelve years ago) link
Good find. There's some great stuff on the Peshay mix (which I got down on tape at the time). Going to have to check some more of these - recommendations please...
― sam500, Tuesday, 28 June 2011 02:05 (twelve years ago) link
what's up with the "alternate versions"?
― m0stlyClean
the mixes came from different sources? the first Krust link seems to contain some radio interference (inaudible on the alternative mix).
― sam500, Tuesday, 28 June 2011 02:46 (twelve years ago) link
Always liked Ray Keith for a bit of the ruffer stuff, anything with Zinc on it, Mickey Finn and Aphrodite obv. A lot of these I don't remember outside the context of the show itself, used to have quite a few on tape but the programme was pretty relentless on a good night.
― SB OK (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 28 June 2011 07:30 (twelve years ago) link
This blog is gold: http://dnb365.blogspot.co.uk/
― millmeister, Friday, 14 February 2014 17:00 (ten years ago) link
Wow thank you, I've been wanting something like that for ages.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Friday, 14 February 2014 17:19 (ten years ago) link
this is the place on the internet where I say Marvellous Cain - Gun Talk has to be one of the best full lengths in jungle!
Also, if you're interested in downloading the entire Suburban Base catalog: https://archive.org/details/Suburban_Bass_Complete_Discography
― Dominique, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 22:11 (six years ago) link