― Chris Lyons, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Favorite Episode Available on Rihno: I Accuse My Parents or
Catalina Caper. Favorite Episode Overall: Alien From
L.A.. Favorite Short: The Days of Our Years. Favorite Riff
Sequences: The Beau Brummels at the Whiskey-A-Go-Go in Village of
the Giants and Fat Linda Rondstadt in The Incredible Melting
Man. Favorite Riff: The Albert Goldman/Greil Marcus ref in The
Pod People and the "...Massapequa, Massapequa Park, Amityville,
Copaigue, Lindenhurst and Babylon. Change at Jamaica for..." line in
The fifteen-minute promo they did for Nintendo; the "sandwich" sketch
at the end of The Undead; the long string of lesbian jokes in
Racket Girls; and, ultimately, the movie, which while v. good,
probably should never have been made; and finally, the various
asinine copyright issues that pretty much will ensure its limited
availability in non-bootleg form to future generations.
― Michael Daddino, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Herein a mystery -- what is this? Given that they're such gaming
addicts I'm not surprised they did it...
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
But if I'm being honest, I love nearly every one. The only one I
think I would destroy is Hamlet, because the adaptation was so static
and dull it was hard to make jokes from.
― Nicole, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
I brought the subject up because I think it's high time we discussed
it at length. A lot of Americans on ILx are pretty vocal about their
MST3K-love, but for obvious reasons, much of the UK posse have never
even seen the show. Those who have only know the Sci-Fi era shows
(and can't get Rhino tapes, either), so they're only getting part of
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Comedy-Central purist at all. The
primary reason I got slowly peeved at the AOL NY MST3K contingent was
because they were by and large vehemently Anti-Mike, going on and on
about how the show was a bunch of boring crap now and how cute and
sexy Joel was. I just couldn't see it. Admittedly, though, by the
time MST3K left CC, the show's early, woozy charm had long faded
away -- but it was replaced by something else that, while slick, was
still awfully entertaining. (Charm isn't everything.) At the other
end of the history spectrum, the KTMAs aren't bad at all, but
all woozy charm and few laffs. Still, that won't matter if you're
already a fan.
The worst movie they ever did was, easily, Monster A Go-Go.
Scroungily overamped "What'd I Say"-rip at the beginning, but
looooong stretches of black & white nothingness punctuated by perhaps
the most infuriating cinematic anticlimax ever. Next in line is
Manos: The Hands of Fate. It's my impression that MST3K almost
single-handedly velcroed this flick onto the Canon of Bad Movies, and
that's a good thing, because it's a startling artifact with a great
story behind it.
Favorite Sci-Fi-era Episode: Jack Frost. Indeed, every episode
involving a children's movie is sterling.
Best Acting in a MST3K Episode: Beverly Garland reads the riot act to
The Celery From Outer Space in It Conquered The World. Bela
Lugosi tells a fellow scientist off in Bride of the Monster.
Crow vs. Crow: Trace-Crow is more neurotic, Bill-Crow is more snide,
yet once Bill got in the groove, I seriously think they were in equal
Joel vs. Mike:
Extraneous thought: if in some alternative universe Catalina
Caper was a good, no, GREAT movie, the Avalanches' album would be
its soundtrack. Perhaps we could kindly suggest to Tim Burton a
I was going to throw in a link to the article with all the info, but
dammit, it's expired! Your vision of a new Catalina Caper
thrills and disturbs my soul.
― Josh, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― chaki, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
i is brit and loving the mst3k. it can grate if you're not in the
right mood, but fuck that for a game of toy soldiers. I also liked
the film (riffing on This Island Earth -- fave bit is when the alien
is explaining about the fate of his planet "a-huh, yeah, yup... got
― Alan Trewartha, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Michael Daddino, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Dan Perry, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Pete, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Anyway, I adored the show. Was a staunch Mike defender in the Mike
v. Joel days, now I'm not so sure. Favorite bit (of all time): "Are
You Happy In Your Work?"
― Colin Meeder, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Colin -- yeah, I remember you were firstname.lastname@example.org, but the
stalking? No, not that.
The boards also attracted a number of true mental cases, most
unforgettably KeijiKJ. He was similar to Gondola Blob in that he
indulged in casebook net.kook behavior: delusions of professionalism,
snottily dismissive of any random thing, threw around the
word "clique" a lot. I've even heard stories that he scared the
bejesus out of BB members during the first con. I personally had a
thoroughly pointless argument with him about the population of the
cities in California.
Concerning Mike, I'll say this: there are quite a few times during
the Sci-Fi-era when he seemed to be sending out his performance via
Fed Ex. Sad, because it was clear after CC he was capable of much
better. But you know, a lot of the Sci-Fi-era episodes that initially
seemed kinda minor and kinda eh to me now strike me as being
I'm waiting on Mike's next collection of essays and novel myself. The
Megacheese collection was a scream.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Stalking resulted from an unfortunate IRL encounter with a nice
enough person. I thought it was a lovely afternoon, she thought it
was TRUE LOVE FOREVER. Eek. The story resolved harmlessly enough --
she found TRUE LOVE FOREVER again with another MSTie, and this time
it was returned.
MST3K was never that big a part of my life - I watched it
sporadically, and I always seemed to be in the wrong state of mind to
truly enjoy it. I'll side with the Joel phreex, though, just because
bald is sexy. (I'm getting sexier by the minute.)
― David Raposa, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
But wasn't Mike balder than Joel? I'm confused. No matter. I'm
balder than both, and I agree with David.
― Brian MacDonald, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― ethan, Monday, 14 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Nicole, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
I think that my slight preference for Joel has something to do with a
sense that the guy's a bit . . . off, where Mike is merely charming
― Colin Meeder, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Michael Daddino, Tuesday, 15 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
But yes, Mike has the angst in there somewhere. He just tempers it
very beautifully -- thus his legendary turn as Morrissey.
― Colin Meeder, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
To add to the book recommendations -- Mike N.'s general essay book Mind Over Matters is another fine read (the TV essay alone is some kinda genius, the mock 19th century novel even more so), while I very much liked Kevin Murphy's A Year at the Movies. Chris Piuma mentioned he felt it was fairly Joe Queenan-like and therefore not as distinct as it could be, but I think it was handled very well and worked as both microstudy of the moviegoing experience and general reflection. Certainly any of the ILF/film-going hounds on this board should consider reading/borrowing a copy, at least. Then there's Mike's new novel Death Rat, which I really need to order next month...
And praise to all the other castmembers doing things and the continual rolling out of more DVDs, though apparently Rhino says they've exhausted what they have the rights to right now and are looking into securing more, hopefully...
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:08 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:11 (11 years ago) Permalink
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:12 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:16 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:21 (11 years ago) Permalink
― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:24 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Nicole (Nicole), Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:34 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:52 (11 years ago) Permalink
"Bad touch.""Does this mean I like guys now?""I feel ill.""Spanking time!"
― Ernest P. (ernestp), Sunday, 25 May 2003 15:58 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 May 2003 16:02 (11 years ago) Permalink
Keep in mind that the fidelity on these files is sometimes suprisingly good considering the size, and sometimes fairly bad, but even the worst files usually have more than enough detail for a person to get what's going on.
I'm hoping the DVD is a Santa Claus vs. The Martians/Santa Claus double fun pak. It is going to come out late 2003, after all.
Later I may want to say something about MST3K in light of Mark's venting on Zappa, but right now I want to go to Central Park and maybe the Malevich exhibit before it starts raining (again).
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 25 May 2003 16:33 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 25 May 2003 19:29 (11 years ago) Permalink
with rifftrax my only complaint is that some of the jokes, which feel natural when they're coming from a naive fictional character like crow or servo, instead feel hokey or strained when coming from one of the guys. they tried to recapture some of the puppet-feeling with disembaudio, like in the riff for "the room" where he kept doing bits while the sex scenes were happening, but it wasn't very successful.
― reddening, Monday, 28 April 2014 04:30 (4 months ago) Permalink
BTW they updated the Wired story with even more stuff!
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 April 2014 12:59 (4 months ago) Permalink
Also they are only doing the riffs as stand-alone audio files, which changes things entirely,
Oh man that is a dealbreaker. I always thought having silhouettes in the frame was a necessary for the show even though they're just dumb silhouettes or whatever. Just like what reddening is saying how it imparted puppet feeling.
Anyway I am hell of nostalgic for this show it is so classic. They used to record it a few miles from my house in Hopkins. I watched it as a little kid and it changed my life and made me a bigger nerd for which I am actually thankful. But I'll be damned if I can remember any jokes now except for stuff from the Gamara movies. Those are forever my favorites.
It'd be rad if they resurrected the show I'd totes watch.
― davey, Monday, 28 April 2014 13:03 (4 months ago) Permalink
anyway given that rifftrax (and that other thing hodgson does I can't remember the name of as well) exists i'm not sure how integral puppet shadowrama really is to the whole thing.
Cinematic Titantic no longer exists (final show at end of 2013.) Maybe that has something to do with the timing of this.
― I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Monday, 28 April 2014 13:36 (4 months ago) Permalink
he kept doing bits while the sex scenes were happening, but it wasn't very successful
I mentioned this on the The Room thread, but jesus, those parts of the riff were awful
― Vinnie, Monday, 28 April 2014 15:24 (4 months ago) Permalink
Set XXX (ooer missus) out tomorrow:
The Black ScorpionOutlaw (Of Gor)The Projected ManIt Lives By Night
Next set at the end of the year:
203- JUNGLE GODDESS with short: THE PHANTOM CREEPS PT 1510- THE PAINTED HILLS with short: BODY CARE AND GROOMING912- THE SCREAMING SKULL with short: ROBOT RUMPUS1012- SQUIRM with short: A CASE OF SPRING FEVER
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 July 2014 19:50 (1 month ago) Permalink
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 28 July 2014 19:52 (1 month ago) Permalink
Yeah Outlaw is one of my all time favorites. The whole clutch of movies in the latter half of the fifth season after Mike took over is actually a great run.
Should also note that with the release of Black Scorpion the first season now has a complete release on DVD in full, counting two from the Rhino years. I guess with Jungle Goddess they're going to try and fill in the holes in season 2 -- dare I say it, MAYBE the Godzillas -- but they're still missing Rocketship X-M, one of the all time greats and the debut episode of both TV's Frank and Kevin Murphy as Servo.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 July 2014 19:57 (1 month ago) Permalink
Yeah, I'd say nearly everything from season 5.5 and 6 stands up with the best the show ever achieved.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Monday, 28 July 2014 20:05 (1 month ago) Permalink
And I say that as a still die-hard Joel stan.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Monday, 28 July 2014 20:06 (1 month ago) Permalink
Yeah I wonder if a lot of the latter day hate is less predicated on the Joel/Mike split in the end than it is Trace/Bill.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 July 2014 20:16 (1 month ago) Permalink
Trace/Bill is what keeps me from exploring the last few seasons - it's just jarring - but Mike hate stems from immediate post-Joel reactions on Usenet etc. I love the 5-7 Mike episodes now, and it's been kinda great to get to discover them. We're working on Sword and the Dragon which has my new favorite OTM riff from Mike himself: "This legend could have used some punching up." Also: the Coleman Francis trilogy, Zombie Nightmare, Incredible Melting Man, Escape 2000... just amazing. The only thing I really miss is the invention exchanges - without them, the effort to come up with that many good host segments starts to show. There are still some great ones, they're just spread a little thinner.
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 28 July 2014 21:00 (1 month ago) Permalink
i'm far less inclined to watch the mike hosting bits than the joel ones, but the movies themselves remain top quality through the syfy years imo
gotta check if i still have my vhs dub of Squirm/Case Of Spring Fever
― da croupier, Monday, 28 July 2014 21:05 (1 month ago) Permalink
― da croupier, Monday, 28 July 2014 21:09 (1 month ago) Permalink
― SEEMS TO ME (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 28 July 2014 21:54 (1 month ago) Permalink
fkn hate that guy
― SEEMS TO ME (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 28 July 2014 21:55 (1 month ago) Permalink
"You'll be the first to die!"
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 July 2014 22:08 (1 month ago) Permalink
I keep being surprised at how many 2nd half season 5/season 6 episodes have yet to get the proper release treatment. Girls Town is so giddily great -- Mamie Van Doren, Paul Anka, Mel Torme, Elinor Donohue, the Platters, general insanity!
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 July 2014 22:10 (1 month ago) Permalink
We tried to watch Girls Town and were really really turned off by the attempted rape that opens the movie. My girlfriend ended up writing a post about it on an MST3k Facebook group that she frequents - got a pretty mixed reaction. She wasn't condemning the Brains, just questioning their judgment, and/or looking for a somewhat stronger reaction from Mike and the Bots, like they sometimes give to indicate they're really condemning a choice by the filmmakers, not just mocking the badness with which it was made. Anyway, we ditched it for, I think, Rocketship X-M in the end.
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 28 July 2014 22:56 (1 month ago) Permalink
Yes, but ... at no point in the movie is Chip's death really taken as any sort of major tragedy or miscarriage of fate/justice. The happy ending comes when both sisters are scot free and Mel Torme gets roughed up by some nuns.
Not invalidating anyone's take; just wondering if there aren't better targets.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Monday, 28 July 2014 23:04 (1 month ago) Permalink
Usually they're very attuned to icky subtexts, "ew"-ing their way through the pervasive misogyny of The Brain That Wouldn't Die, for instance.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Monday, 28 July 2014 23:06 (1 month ago) Permalink
It was kind of a triggering thing, I dunno. It kinda happens and they just sort of riff on like usual. For me, I'd have appreciated something in the vein of what they do in other scenes, a chorus of "Boos," some "Nobody wants to see this," I dunno. My girlfriend I think really would have just rather they picked a different movie. For both of us it was also a reminder that this episode was made twenty years ago - as long as the time between the early MST3k seasons and some of the movies they riffed!
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 28 July 2014 23:17 (1 month ago) Permalink
Ehh, I shouldn't have said "triggering." Just super uncomfortable, touching on very bad memories, etc. But it could be for someone else, I think.
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 28 July 2014 23:36 (1 month ago) Permalink
Right, the episode was 20 years ago, and the movie was 60 years ago.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 01:24 (1 month ago) Permalink
Right......... just saying that the reaction from M&tB is dated in its own way. Like, I would expect literate, sharp, savvy comics in 2014 to 'catch' this scene in a different way today. Even in 1994 it would have been nice, and not out of character based on other episodes of the show where they do call this kind of thing out and make clear that they don't see it as of the same zinging order as "oh isn't this badly plotted" or "oh isn't this quaint."
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 02:09 (1 month ago) Permalink
I fully admit to having no real memory of that sequence. The version I had taped off of cable lopped off the first 20 minutes or so, and I never did see the rest until much later.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 02:16 (1 month ago) Permalink
IIRC they aren't just simply GOOFING during that bit -- there are definitely a few grumbles from Tom and cheering Elinor's character on and all. That said, it's a good take that I'd never thought of before. (Reminds me of a viewing back in 1993/94 where a bunch of us were watching Eegah!.)
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 02:22 (1 month ago) Permalink
just re-watched the scene (which is longer than i remembered at a minute and a half). the jokes are pretty glib ("oh that kennedy compound," "a weasel ripped my dress -RZZZZ!"), but when the guy falls mike notes "oh look, a moral" - they're pretty glib about the dude's death too. i totally get the scene being a real sour note for the viewer based on their own experiences, but the sequence is pretty OTT in the first place and while they could have underlined a "that is not cool!" stance the way they'd tend to for scenes involving slapping, it'd be a stretch to suggest they leave open the possibility they DO think it's cool.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 02:40 (1 month ago) Permalink
there's also a "hit him harder!"
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 02:41 (1 month ago) Permalink
if the scene didn't quickly move from "dude ripping dress" to "dude falling down ravine" - if it seemed like the director was actually trying to titillate - i bet they would have spoken up
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 02:44 (1 month ago) Permalink
in a more earnest manner, i mean.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 02:45 (1 month ago) Permalink
Just watched it again too and, agreed on basically all counts. Contrast with their genuine anger when what's her name gets killed in the final reel of The Girl in Lovers Lane.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:02 (1 month ago) Permalink
All fair posts above. I definitely didn't think the Brains thought the sequence was cool. Maybe it just seemed wide open for a point to be made (through humor or otherwise) that there was something pretty fucked up about the (male) makers of a Wild Good Time Teen Movie thinking this scene was the best way to get the plot rolling. Complete with the people who seem to be the protagonists (? I could be wrong?) just not paying any attention to the screams because they're making out in the car! Ha ha ha! I mean at best it's super super tone deaf, and that should be rife for the MST team's skills to point up in a way that....ehhh, I'm beating a dead horse here, it just bugged us, but y'know, there's plenty other episodes to watch.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:15 (1 month ago) Permalink
Actually it's the main villain (Mel Torme, admittedly, but still) who does nothing even after hearing screams.
One possible reason why the jokes don't take a back seat to indignation is perhaps because it's the first minute of the film. Short of walking out en masse, I'm not sure what they could've done. That's right when Mike and the 'bots have to establish their riffs.
Zero-sum argument, tho.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:22 (1 month ago) Permalink
i definitely think if it was done today they'd be more apt to call out the threat of assault as a plot device, even if the would-be rapist was going to be a puddle a minute later
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:25 (1 month ago) Permalink
Or they might have just cut the scene entirely, as they've done with any number of other movies.
Now I'm sort of curious to know what the response was on the MST3k Facebook group. If there's one unintended side-effect of the MST3K mindset that still gives me (minuscule) pause every now and again, it's the total alienation from all contexts that aren't based in postmodernist larffs.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:27 (1 month ago) Permalink
oh man considering my own apparent defensiveness, i can't even imagine what degree of "how DARE you suggest they had any responsibility to acknowledge the audience's potential reaction to sexual violence" facebook would offer
― da croupier, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:30 (1 month ago) Permalink
"And now let's watch Willa Cather doing her Baby Snooks impression."
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:34 (1 month ago) Permalink
you know, this was a great series, and i never wanted to watch it for 20 years, so i haven't.
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:41 (1 month ago) Permalink
Uh...yay? (I mean considering the amount of baseball specific references throughout the series, I figure you would enjoy that!)
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:44 (1 month ago) Permalink
you know, this was a great series
100 percent true. Very much agreed. A fantastic and enduring classic TV show. So glad we could share this moment together.
― You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 03:52 (1 month ago) Permalink
The reaction was mostly defensive as y'all have guessed, plus some people suggesting other ones to avoid (e.g. Sidehackers) and sharing the trivia that up until Sidehackers they supposedly did not have a policy of watching the whole movie before deciding to use it for the show. That sorta confused me and made me wonder: how exactly did their rights agreements work? Were they obligated to run a movie they'd agreed to, or were they just on too tight a budget to drop a movie they'd paid for? Did they come as package deals?
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 04:31 (1 month ago) Permalink
The various things I've seen, via the original episode guide and other posts, was that they could pick individual films but that sometimes there were package deals. Start of season 8 is a good example -- they were plowing their way through a lot of old B/W Universal films that the SciFi Channel had rights to.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 04:34 (1 month ago) Permalink
That makes sense. I remember in one of the interviews or something, they talk about taking package deals from distributors, who relied on desirable movies to force airers to pay fees for awful B-crap in their archives; for the Brains it was the other way around. Or something like that? But it would surprise me if they were obliged to run all the films in the package. Surely the distributor wouldn't care, so long as they were paid for.
On a lighter note, not sure if this has been posted, but: http://io9.com/wheres-servo-is-the-greatest-mst3k-poster-of-all-ti-1561516889 Hours of fun!
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 15:46 (1 month ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 August 2014 00:54 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Not really fair that the 'bots don't get to riff the hell out of those lyrics.
― It's Autumn Sunrise (Eric H.), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 02:36 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
This is true.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 August 2014 02:42 (4 weeks ago) Permalink