Led Zeppelin: Classic Or Dud?

yeah I had no idea how likeable he was until I saw that doc. -- the rest of it was p much garbage, for sure.

Yeah, it was a really bad documentary but mostly worth it just to watch Page air-guitar to Rumble like a giddy school boy learning his first song.

the thing that really blew me away was that he spent 3/4 of that documentary talking about his life *before* he even joined Led Zeppelin. When it was laid out like that, it was kind of astounding what a rich life, musically, he led.

I actually kind of want to see that now.

it's 100% worth it for jimmy. Edge is okay. White is just kind of, I dunno. I normally like him, and I've heard interviews where he's relaxed and cool but he was embarrassingly pretentious in It Might Get Loud.

Yeah, Jack White came across as completely artificial in the doc. The Edge was mostly "look at me, I might possibly still be relevant!" Page seemed to be the only one who had fine things to say about music and guitar. Also, I love that he's a super-sloppy guitarist and doesn't even try to hide it.

there were parts of Edge that were okay, where he went back to the room where they played their first gig, and some of the early archive footage was p cool

Yeah, The Edge's bits about going back to Dublin where the band formed were kinda cool. The stuff with him hanging around in his practice room playing "Get On Your Boots" a zillion different ways was a drag.

u_u yes

Picked up that When Gods Walked the Earth book again last week and tried to get through it again. It was pretty agreeable if I skipped the second person parts, but then there was an enormous chapter devoted to Aleister Crowley. As far as I can tell, it was completely unnecessary.

I did love, however, that the song they all chose to play together wasn't some guitar wank showdown where they all tried to cut heads with each other. It was "The Weight".

yeah, that was a nice touch.

back on topic, I wonder what other kind of unreleased material Page could possibly dig up in the vaults. if there's stuff like How The West Was Won lying around in a mislabelled shoebox, bring it on I say.

iirc, when the first box was released in 1990, Page said there were literally no unreleased studio recordings, that everything had come out on Coda.

yeah that's what I thought too

that being said more live stuff like HTWWW would be very welcome, love those discs

we need to initiate a worldwide search of abandoned houses, attics, and mislabelled shoeboxes.

just to be sure

the lack of led zep rarities has always been really odd, esp in comparison every other major classic rock band

there are demos and alt versions around. Maybe not all complete, but good enough for an archival release.

He may have said something like that in 1990 because he was still trying to promote a solo career. I bet now that there's a whole generation of new money to be made, Led Zep outtakes will be recovered and released pronto.

I dig HTWWW, but I'm hoping for early-early stuff to come out, like the '68-'69 US shows where they had to pad out their set with things like Spirit's "Fresh Garbage."

i couldn't even imagine, but like what if it's like "oh hai guys did i tell you there was this complete other song we left off of IV"

*Page opens trunk he's been using as a coffee table for 40 years*

"Yeah so about that whole 'we don't have any unreleased studio recordings..."

"Loud" doc is OK, but it's worth it for the scene where the Edge shows Jack White and Jimmy Page how to play "I Will Follow," and you can see in their eyes that they're thinking, "holy shit, I can't believe this guy built the biggest band in the world by doing that."

haha yeah they are totally just humoring him like...oh ok you just chukka chukka this little suspended chord with a delay pedal...yeah..edge...wow...that's neat...good for you

"here's a ball. maybe you'd like to bounce it"

lol

Edge's comeback was, "Yeah, I got the idea from some guy named Jake Holmes. Ever hear of him, Jimmy?"

I wonder how many completed "new" songs there are besides "Swan Song". That and alternate mixes/different takes of things from Physical Graffiti are all I know. Honestly, if they just released an appropriate era live show with each album I'd be stoked.

Physical Graffiti pretty much *was* them clearing the decks aiui. If they'd just recorded a normal single album in 1975 we'd be in for a treat now.

I don't understand why there aren't tons of mint gigs ready for a polish and release though. Like a post facto Bootleg Series. If I was in a band that rich and good - or even just a band - I'd be archiving everything.

I think there are lots of shows, but it's a matter of finding the good ones, and how/if they should be edited. Some of the songs on HTWWW are composites (e.g., "Stairway" is parts of both LA shows, and the mellotron is from a '73 show), so I can imagine it being an arduous undertaking if they wanted to release more shows in the same way.

If they put out the pre-75 from Physical Graffiti and Coda today? Mind blowing.

I bet they have decent live shows from say, 70-71 onward. But Page is a perfectionist, and we all know Jimmy was far from perfect live. Far, far from perfect most nights, especially as the drug use took over like on the 1977 tour. Though the setlist on that tour was mind boggling.

Edge's comeback was, "Yeah, I got the idea from some guy named Jake Holmes. Ever hear of him, Jimmy?"

― and I scream Fieri Eiffel Tower High (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, December 4, 2012 12:45 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and then page was all "jake holmes, was he the guitarist on the song "public image" by public image limited?...oh sorry no that was keith levene"

Like a post facto Bootleg Series

Oh ffs, like there's any other kind. A world where the gigs get leaked in advance, like Tony Blair's speeches. Never use Latin.

Well played.

xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDoqk1Ltr8w

^^^one of my fave zep recordings, and, as far as i know, an unreleased outtake. THERE MIGHT BE MORE OUT THERE.

xpost The thing with Page – and to be fair, I base this only on one 45-minute interview with him – is that he only wants to talk about music, and if you want to talk about music he is happy and engaged. He'll talk about mic positioning on Sun recordings and how he tried to replicate that for as long as you'll let him. And he is passionate about it. But the minute you try to talk about the other parts of Zeppelin – basically anything that isn't the music - he shuts down immediately. Brad Tolinski's book of interviews is well worth getting for anyone who wants to read Page talking about making music.

But the minute you try to talk about the other parts of Zeppelin – basically anything that isn't the music - he shuts down immediately.

Doesn't wanna incriminate himself, innit.

Never mind studio trickery, I want to know about his grooming secrets. To hear Des Barres tell it, he was the Brian Wilson of rock hair.

Eh, he'll have to compete with Bryan Ferry, who actually credits his hair stylist on each album.

Ha that's right, but then it's Ferry's stylist he'd be competing with.

Edge's comeback was, "Yeah, I got the idea from some guy named Jake Holmes. Ever hear of him, Jimmy?"

― and I scream Fieri Eiffel Tower High (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, December 4, 2012 12:45 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and then page was all "jake holmes, was he the guitarist on the song "public image" by public image limited?...oh sorry no that was keith levene"

― U.S. State Department, Office of Rare Psych (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, December 4, 2012 2:03 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So bummed Jake didn't prevail in his "Dazed and Confused" plagiarism lawsuit earlier this year. The evidence that Page nicked it is overwhelming. Holmes played "Dazed" when he opened for the Page-era Yardbirds in 1967, after which it became a Yardbirds concert staple. Their live recording made in '67-'68, Cumular Limit, credits Holmes as the sole songwriter.

god who cares, by the time Zep got through Dazed & Confused it was basically just a jumping off point for 30-minute improvs

but then I am not big on authorial claims in general

AP Carter stole all his songs too etc

i was just reading a book on the history of blues, and obviously one of zep's big ripoffs was "you shook me" by willie dixon...but as it turns out...guess who was sort of renowned for taking songs that had been floating around in the blues scene for a long time, writing them down and copywriting them as his own?....mr. willie dixon!

that scamp

It's different when you're talking ancient blues and folk songs that have been handed down for centuries, and some enterprising bluesman from 1920 recorded and popularized it and applied for copyright. But "Dazed" was an all-new song and the Zep version, including the 30-minute improvs, are built on the same original bassline (the song's most distinctive attribute), rhythm, lyrical themes, and title.

How did he lose the plagiarism suit then?

pretty sure Jake Holmes did not invent the phrase "Dazed and Confused" nor it's lyrical themes fwiw. rhythms are not copyrightable. descending bassline = eh isn't this how Page won the lawsuit, by changing enough of it and the melody?