Hip-Hop: The Low Point

1) his incredible production.

2) the line about rocking from cancun to grant's tomb in 'feel so good'.

3) his fascinating persona.

4) the fact that he's such a safe choice for hip-hop illiterates to make fun of that even dave cocksucking popshots took a misguided cheap shot at him. hey dave, stick to what you shamefully know about all of your godforsaken indie bands instead of parroting some weak joke you saw on chris rock show.

5) 'i'm the reason they made the dress code / they thought i wouldn't wild out when i'm in my french clothes'

he was the first in the 'mo money, mo problems' line-up for christ's sake! i honestly don't understand how he became some universal answer to the wack mc question, he's competant enough to hold his own on anything i've heard, and has outrhymed puffy on more than one occasion. conclusion: hating on ma$e is fucking played, he's not the best but he's good enough and hardly the 'low point' in hip- hop.

Calm down, take a pill, it'll make your posts a lot more easy to respond to for everyone involved. I mean, hell, I mostly AGREE with you that all this thread has proven is how little this board knows about hip-hop and rap (the Jay-Z slams and the Biggie slams are my personal favorite), but you ain't seein' me turning around telling anyone who hates Jigga to go fuck themselves because they are so far beneath my level of Jay knowledge that they might as well go commit suicide because they aren't fucking worth my time.

Capiche? Purely friendly advice.

So what? What did Ma$e have to do with his production? NOTHING. Ma$e's production is one area where I'm willing to give Puffy credit. I do not credit Ma$e with shit.

2) the line about rocking from cancun to grant's tomb in 'feel so good'.

I'm sorry, but that entire song is dumb as shit. It's akin to watching an idiot getting his ego stroked by the popular kids so that they can make fun of him behind his back. The only good things in the song have nothing to do with Ma$e; the beat is nice and the female dancers in the video are slammin'. As a platform for Mc skills, it's awful.

3) his fascinating persona.

The only fascinating thing he did was quit the music business for the ministry, and it's not even like that's the first time that's happened (see, for example, Pebbles). His entire media persona was like a retarded version of Puffy. Ooh, how fascinating!

4) the fact that he's such a safe choice for hip-hop illiterates to make fun of that even dave cocksucking popshots took a misguided cheap shot at him. hey dave, stick to what you shamefully know about all of your godforsaken indie bands instead of parroting some weak joke you saw on chris rock show.

Now you're showing up the big weakness in your defense right there. You're only four points in, can only make one point about his skills which comes down not to delivery or flow, but one line in the first single he released, then you go on to say that he's an easy target for ridicule. If he's so damn good, why is he an easy target for ridicule? I'll answer for you; it's because he's a fucking awful MC whose sole purpose for existence was to prolong the fucking of Biggie's dead corpse so that Puffy could line his pockets with more cash. Do you honestly think that Ma$e would have had any type of commercial success had Puffy not introduced at the height of the post-Biggie Bad Boy mania?

5) 'i'm the reason they made the dress code / they thought i wouldn't wild out when i'm in my french clothes'

This is another stupid line.

he was the first in the 'mo money, mo problems' line-up for christ's sake!

And? Ma$e's entire function in that song is to make Puffy look credible before Biggie's verse kicks in. The track itself is kind of amazing because Ma$e's verse is so limpid and wrong that Puffy seems like a breath of fresh air. Then, Biggie's verse drops and you realize that Puffy is actually a gigantic hunk of shit.

i honestly don't understand how he became some universal answer to the wack mc question, he's competant enough to hold his own on anything i've heard, and has outrhymed puffy on more than one occasion.

Jesus Christ. My nuts could occasionally outrhyme Puffy. Sometimes being better than someone who is shit does not mean that you are not shit, particularly when more often than not the shit sounds good after you step away from the mic. As far as holding his own with others is concerned, the MCs on the Bad Boy label after Puffy's death were so horrible that a hemmrhoidal monkey could have jumped up on stage and shown everyone its ass and it would have been just as entertaining.

The majority of the Bad Boy Mcs are good for dancefloor fillers that you don't have to think very hard about. There is nothing wrong with that; in fact, it's a perfectly laudable go and I've got tons and tons of records in many genres that were created with that goal in mind. HOWEVER, don't even try to compare the lyrical skills of a no-talent simpleton like Ma$e with people like Biggy, Tupac, Digital Underground, Jay-Z, Nas, Ludacris, anyone in Wu-Tang, Eminem, or even fucking Insane Clown Posse, because the sad motherfucker does not rate and never will. People get dumber just from listening to his shit.

Well considering three other people have all said, in short unspecific format, the exact same thing, don't you feel like a cockfarming tosser now? I understand that your posts aren't 100% serious, Ethan (I mean, if they were and you were honestly this psychotic, someone would've killed you by now, if you hadn't already self-destructed), which is why I don't reply to them in kind 99% of the times and instead try to point out to you why people are consistently taking you the "wrong way". I understand that you are a particularly childish, stupid and immature little boy. I understand that. I love you for it. I also understand that a lot of other people are going to read the absolutely derogatory, disgusting and irritating way you talk to everyone around here, decide you are serious, and start shit with you and that if you want to avoid being treated like an asshole, you shouldn't act like such a psychotic dickhead.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation, fuckwad.

dan: against this very thoughtful and well- reasoned response, i merely offer that you are a fan of the insane clown posse. if there is anyone else on this forum who would like to put forth that those wacky 'rappers' from icp are somehow better than ma$e in any way, shape, or form, please come forth now and explain.

ned: no.

'ally cat': the only problem with 'posting style' i see here is that you have somehow used your wonderful magnetic personality to somehow redirect this thread to be about my apparent inability to communicate above an 'eight-year old's level'. hey, at least i can 'motherfucking' stay on the 'fucking' topic instead of making bizarre unprovoked attacks. i mean, hello, your posting style isn't exactly, like, totally the greatest either, duh, but you don't see me writing a fucking manifesto on it. if you want to play mommy so bad, go find one of the many ilmers who would filthily jump at the chance, i'm tired of your endless posts 'for my own good'. can't you just fucking ignore me like you claim to so often? oh wait, i hope i didn't say 'fuck' too many times.

This I have to hear. Though I don't want a live demonstration, please.

Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope know that they're wack MCs. Much of their schtick is based on extraordinarily dodgy rhymes done for comedic effect. Ma$e, while he was still in the business, just knew he was the best MC out there. I'm much more willing to listen to someone who sucks in a funny way than someone who sucks in a self-aggrandizing, aggravating way. Also, while the things J and Shaggy are saying tend to be extraordinarily boneheaded, they at least do so with a reasonable sense of flow (particularly on the first three albums). Ma$e sounds as if he has his eyes closed and is desperately reeling off words that someone taught him by rote because he couldn't read fast enough to keep up with the beat.

I should point out that the two ICP albums everyone knows, _The Great Milenko_ and _The Amazing Jeckel Brothers_, are not very good. In fact, _TAJB_ sucks ass.

Hip Hop is just one long low-point.

For me, it's meant the gradual decline of pop culture into a doldrum of meritless braggadoccio where only the basest of possible concerns (big butted women and the gratuitous display of suspiciously-acquired wealth) take precedence.

And this is different from the majority of rock how, exactly?

Your blinkers are showing, Motel Hell. Get off yer high horse.

nah, that's for little kids and amateurs. ;) But yeah Ma$e is probably worse than Mc Astma. But then again I don't understand the negative comments about Missy. So I'll exile myself from any hip-hop discussion since I don't know motherfuckin' shit.

You just wait until my nuts drop. An album.

B-Rock & The Bizz - Baby Daddy (the 12" has an acapella version that defies all conventional notions of flow, rhythm or coherence. basically ghetto autism.)

World Class Wrecking Cru's "Wrapped in Romance" (pre-NWA luuurve rap w/ Dre!)

MotelHell - are you HeyBuddy?? That would be awesome!

hahahaha lolz awesome

it was really the video that sold me on it - I think when I first heard it I had come across the Graham Central Station version a few weeks prior and was sorta nonplussed by her minimal take on it. but the video... I was like "oh yes FINALLY a weird arty female success story for hip hop - more plz"

By the third video I was hooked on her visual style but most of the time, as I stated above, I really wanted her to sing instead of rap. It really wasn't until "She's A Bitch" that I started appreciating her rhyming.

i remember just getting worn out with get ur freak on, but she really has been consistently great

yeah that one got a bit overexposed

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Jah Rule

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned either rap songs that contain the word "low" in the title, or rappers that have the word "Lo" as part of their name.

baby girl you telling lies
cuz when i look you in yo face i cna see im on yo mind
and it dont matter when them hoez may say i know your love is blind
for me, every bitch needs a thug nigger in their life
could it be you enjoy me fucking you, while you be loving me
trick and destroy us mentally
thats why they freak wit me frequently
love is life (?)
[...]
being nokio's a bit much
i got bitches in the states that love ta suck
i got bitches overseas that love to fuck
what the fuck yall want from me?
ghetto celebrity from b'more
murderer do-or-die from N-Y
and everbody's here right
N-O-K-I-O, baby, R to the U-L-E, baby
know a lot of yall bitches hate me cuz you cant relate to me
what the fuck you want from me?
let them hoes know not a thing
ice they wrists neck ear and ring
you are everything

from what i remember of a ja rule song on sisqo's CD. lol @ my memory from being 12

I want to change my answer and say the low point of hip-hop / rap is the fact that Missy Elliot exists.

― Ally

Missy Elliot just needs to sing. She's great when she sings and HOOOOOOOORIBLE when she speaks (I refuse to call that rapping).

― Dan Perry

would have been a better revive if you'd left the date stamps on

2001.

those new "classic hip-hop" radio stations play "get ur freak on" SO MUCH and i'm already sick of it, it's like the hotel california of rap