Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

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Today's Guardian: Derek Hatton: I WAS THERE WHEN EVERTON WON THE CUP WINNERS' CUP

Goodison Park was absolutely heaving.... I bought tickets in the main stand with the lads, despite the fact that I was leader of Liverpool City Council at the time.... the noise was just incredible.... [The goal by Trevor Steven] simply captured the brilliance of that team and the glory of watching them. He received the ball on the left and gracefully lobbed the goalkeeper from quite some distance. That moment was better than any amount of sec you can possibly imagine.... Steven's run and lob probably lasted six seconds in total, but it seemed like 10 minutes. It was all about the majestic manner in which he did it and the perfect timing.... Only he had the grace and flow of movement to produce a moment of sheer majesty that could encapsulate the team's brilliance.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 07:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

'sec' = 'sex', of all things.

Personally I think the goal was better than lots of sec, but beyond that I'm not sure.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 07:32 (10 years ago) Permalink

Question that looking at this thread again raises: has the gap between the 2 clubs closed at all since we discussed it? I think possibly it has.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 07:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

Ahh, perhaps one of my most favourite ever threads!

In a way yes, although Everton are still a loooooong way of challenging for the league. But they do seem better under Moyes (the only British Premier league manager who has a UEFA coaching license apart from Fergie who used his nefarious powers to make himself get one due to ten years in the job) than they were with Smithy. But results such as the one against Man City trhe other week will always count against them. Inconsistecy, that's the problem.

― chris (chris), Monday, 9 September 2002 08:01 (10 years ago) Permalink

I come back to find the PF slating first Pynchon and now LFC. Is this a conspiracy? He naturally misrepresents the opposition which is more Z-Cars vs You'll Never Walk Alone. (PF's apparent hatred of LFC is probably a clinamenic swerve away from his unutterable distaste for the Gooners).

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 9 September 2002 08:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

I liked your crappo prediction for last year's champions, chris.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 9 September 2002 08:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

Also, I hate Kenny Glaldish, too.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 08:21 (10 years ago) Permalink

Actually I can only assume the Nipper is projecting his own fears for LFC onto others. Personally I haven't been so keen on them since May 1989.

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 08:25 (10 years ago) Permalink

(That means: I would like it if they won the League. Or even the Premiership.)

― the pinefox, Monday, 9 September 2002 08:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

my prediction least year was indeed, rub.

― chris (chris), Monday, 9 September 2002 08:27 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Merseyside derby approaching... and when were the two clubs last as closely matched as this?

It's up for grabs now!

― the pinefox, Monday, 25 November 2002 17:12 (10 years ago) Permalink

PF, the derby is always up for grabs. The pre-match media hype will of course concern Rooney, Rooney, Rooney whereas Owen will get a hat-trick.

Why haven't you been so keen on the greatest football club in the world since May 1989 then?

― Venga, Monday, 25 November 2002 19:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

*There's an argument that says that the Auld Firm buy up all middling-good-to-great players of the lower SPL teams thereby helping to suppress competition and maintain the monstrous gap. Meanwhile they don't play the players. So they just take them away for spite/utility. Poss. then that the SPL would become a better league if the Auld Firm went south.

The league has improved quite a lot over the last two years though. I'm impressed.

Some people say that this is the last year before Celtic will need a major overhaul; this team is on its way out. I say that the team is over-staying by one year and that the re-jig should have occurred before 2002-3. In the summer lull. Thomson out, he's as much a chimera as Craig Burley (the Celtic edition), Sylla out (another example of * above), so many other people. Leaving the backbone: Larsson, Sutton, Hartson, Hedman, Mjallby, Lambert/Lennon axis. Build around that, with an eye to getting rid of one of the 2Ls.

- dwh.

― dwh (dwh), Monday, 25 November 2002 19:47 (10 years ago) Permalink

Liked Bill Kenwright's line about changing the name of the Blues' website to WWWWWW.everton.com. And let's please have no more debate about who's going to replace David Seaman as England's #1. Ferchrissakes, how many clean sheets do you want?

I'm loving this little run, obv - but I expect it to end at Newcastle. I do genuinely expect us to be ahead of the red filth by the time The Golden Child signs that contract though. Of course, we'll start to slide in the spring - of course, we'll be mediocre again when the injuries come. But this is a far more impressive core EFC team than the one Royle took to Wembley and the top six in the mid-90s, or the free-scoring Campbell/Jeffers-led side that fancied a stab at a UEFA place for two-thirds of 99-00. Things have changed. Out of the Dark Ages at last.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 25 November 2002 23:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

And let's please have no more debate about who's going to replace David Seaman as England's #1.

CHRIS KIRKLAND. HAHA!

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 10:15 (10 years ago) Permalink

CHRIS KIRKLAND. HAHA!

Ooh, he might even get a game for his club now Jerzy Nolongerclassicek is flailing a bit.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 15:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

jerzy's still the man.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 16:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

Out of the Dark Ages at last.

False dawn!

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 26 November 2002 19:18 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

hoo hoo

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 16 December 2002 03:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

I fear the derby now. Liverpool's appalling run surely can't go much further. They may very soon Bounce Back. In an ideal world, they'll be out of both domestic cups and 10pts off the title pace in a month's time, but I know I'm hoping for too much.

Losing to Sunderland though, sheesh.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 16 December 2002 07:29 (10 years ago) Permalink

Im enjoying Pool's bad run, but I think it will end with the Merseyside Derby. I think it will be the point where Liverpool AND Everton's seasons start to go in opposite directions, sadly. In fairness to Pool, they're not far off the pace, points-wise. Even Arsenal have lost four already, and I reckon the Gunners will end up winning the Premiership. But that's another story.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 16 December 2002 09:19 (10 years ago) Permalink

You could be right - at the moment, suspensions are far more of a worry to EFC's shallow squad than injuries, but they will come and losing Yobo, Gravesen, Radzinski, TheGoldenChild et al for any length of time will see us slide. I don't see us in the bottom half at any point, though.

I don't know quite what to make of the Liverpool slump - previous winter blips have always carried an air of inevitability about them, as if LFC were riding their luck a little to be where they were, and a rough patch balanced things up. This season, Liverpool could (and should) have won their opening 12 league games and yet now seem utterly bereft of ideas - the swing seems more extreme than before. Alan Green is not a man to be trusted, but he was scathing about both teams on R5 yesterday.

So, on the one hand, Liverpool seem ripe for the picking by an organised, fluent Everton side full of confidence. On the other, they're, erm, spawny gets who might not lose again until March.

I dunno. I plan to go on a long walk next Sunday.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 16 December 2002 12:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

What... to Anfield?

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 17 December 2002 12:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

Revival time...

Final whistle goes at Anfield in a match described by the BBC as "tedious". Of course, I was a great big knotty bundle of scrunched-up bags of entangled nerves, so no trip to a Sky-sporting pub or earphones blaring R5 for me... contented myself with housework, a couple of Sea and Cake LPs and the 'live text' updates on the Beeb's website.

Seemed like LFC edged it, Rooney hit the bar and there were a flurry of nasty tackles and yellow cards at the end.

Thank God that's over. Merry Xmas everybody.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 22 December 2002 18:12 (10 years ago) Permalink

Do you mean it was 0-0, Michael? And what about the Man U-Blackburn game? (A less lazy person might visit a football website, of course...)

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 22 December 2002 18:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

Yes, it was goalless, just like in the 70s (well, usually).

Blackburn beat United 1-0, with a first-half Flitcroft goal. Some ex-international who's been knocking around the MUFC reserves came on for the last half-hour, to no great effect.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 22 December 2002 19:08 (10 years ago) Permalink

I thought it was a good game. Everton played like men possessed. It was like Joe Royle's dogs of war. Stubbs was heroic.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 22 December 2002 23:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

It gladdens me no end to read that, Kilian. It was the defence I was most worried about, what with Yobo and Unsworth missing.

It was specifically Jim O'Rourke's "I Took The Opportunity To Antique My End Table" remix off Two Gentlemen that got me through the last seven minutes, if anyone's interested. It could work with, say, Brum-Villa too.

Any thoughts on just what Stevie G was trying to do with that 'tackle'? Apart from end Naysmith's career, that is.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 23 December 2002 11:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

He says that he was trying to pull out, and I must admit that through my red-tinged eyes it looked that way live too, if he had wanted to end Naysmiths career there he could have done, but his studs landed short of doing it.

For what it's worth I agree with Radio 5, neither team deserved to win it, but as the Guardian said this morning, Moyes bringing on Roonaldo just as the uintroductyion of Heskey and Smicer (who would ever have thought I'd write that sentence?) was a tactical masterstroke.

― chris (chris), Monday, 23 December 2002 11:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'd just like to point out that while it's nice to have a thread for the Merseyside also-rans, 2003 will be Chelsea's year. I already have my ticket for the final home game v Liverpool, and I look forward to celebrating as we clinch the title by trouncing the reds. Rather like we stuffed Everton already - twice.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 23 December 2002 11:15 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'd love to see an end to the Red hegemony, and the least evil option from the traditional chasing pack (EFC being Xmas guests, maybe on a visitors' visa) is a Chelsea triumph. You certainly stuffed us in the Worthless Cup, but quite how you got away from Goodison with three points is a bit of a mystery. Any team with Zola ain't all bad.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 23 December 2002 11:24 (10 years ago) Permalink

dr c, it is not long since you were calling for ranieris head!

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 23:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Oh no -- according to the www, Liverpool are losing at home to Crystal Palace!

Let's hope they survive.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 21:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

I was hoping for that result, and for Gillingham to beat Leeds, so that we'd have Gillingham vs Palace on live TV.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 21:49 (10 years ago) Permalink

That's a bit of a shocker! an own goal to compound the misery as well!

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 21:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

And palace were a man down for the last 20 mins.

Still never mind, they'll be able to concentrate on the league... must practice saying that for when Chris gets in....

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

2-0 to the Palace! And ten man Palace!

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

Concentrate on the league? What, on finishing sixth?

Fantastic. They'll be dancing on Westow Hill tonight.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

Yes, Liverpool can still qualify for Europe this season!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:08 (10 years ago) Permalink

intertoto

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

oh, yeah, forgot about the league cup final.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

Tom can you delete Gerard Houllier please.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 6 February 2003 10:33 (10 years ago) Permalink

Quoi?

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 6 February 2003 10:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

And the rest of the club too.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 6 February 2003 10:50 (10 years ago) Permalink

that heskey miss was sensational

― zemko (bob), Thursday, 6 February 2003 11:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

I heard Gerard say recently that Liverpool have actually had more shots on target than any other team in the P-ship this season - I guess they just haven't been very good shots on target. And judging by last night's performance I can believe it. So does mean that Liverpool's problem isn't lack of width/creative players but rather that the front pairing isn't right? Should Baros be given an extended spell in the 1st team? Should we sell Owen while we could still get big bucks for him?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 6 February 2003 11:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

JtN's last sentance would have been sacrilegous 6 months or more ago, but it's looking more and more like good business sense, I've had two very in-depth discussions about him on the last week and the topic has come round to one thing. Owen relies on one shot, the curled shot past the keeper into the top right of the goal, you can see him do it every time. However, now his confidence is low, he seems to be scuffing a hella lot more than he connects with, leading to the current plight. Can we wait for the confidence? I don't know to be honest, but Baros has played well enough to give him a run out. Maybe resting Owen for more than just one game could be the answer, not to do with tiredness but to do with him realisisng that he needs to fight for his place.

Word is that Reebok are sponsoring Liverpool to the tune of 100 million and that iit's going to be spent on players (hmmm, and not the new Anfield), but if we ain't in the hampions league, we ain't gong to get the best.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 11:43 (10 years ago) Permalink

Maybe it depends who's choosing them. Houllier spent 43 million on the following outfield ten:

Heggem, Xavier, Traore, Vignal; Cheyrou, Diomede, Biscan, Smicer; Diouf, Heskey.

What a team, eh? To be fair, in a few cases, they helped win LFC those three cups. But a few more were intended to take LFC to the next level. Next level down, I guess. Houllier does seem to be becoming increasingly paranoid and delusional though (not necessarily about the shots-on-goal thing - they do waste a lot of chances, think of the 0-0 home draw with Sunderland).

Or is this a False Dusk?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 6 February 2003 13:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

I hope it is Jonesy, I really do.

Out of those ten, I would keep Vignal (will be good in the future and was pretty cheap, he was flying before he got injured), Diouf (apparently had his best 45 minutes for Liverpool in the first half last night) and of course Heskey, who is a god to me (but I haven't seen *that* miss yet).

Smicer though? the sooner we're rid of him the better, he's rubbish. And I ain't too sure about Cheyrou either.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 13:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

if we'd scored even a third of the chances we got last night then we'd have been hailing a very good performance but then that's been the case all season, hasn't it? some strange noises coming out of anfield re. hamann yesterday also.

― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:03 (10 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 1498 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Carlos Puyol won the National Ploughing Championships in 1993

― ooooiiiioooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaoooooh un - bi - leevable! (LocalGarda), Friday, 18 May 2012 17:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

is there something patronizing about celebrating atypical football players like xabi? like to not only refrain from beating up call girls, but to actually read books and drink coffee

hes clearly an intelligent, relatively thoughtful 30 yr old man, it shouldn't be so unexpected

― navihchkan (nakhchivan), Friday, 18 May 2012 17:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

Which footballer was it who attempted to read Ulysses again? Something in my mind is telling me Kevin Kilbane but I'm sure that must be wrong.

― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Friday, 18 May 2012 18:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

11 months pass...

Everton FC are going to have a new manager for the first time since before ilx started.

Austere technicians of School of Science.

― the pinefox, Friday, 10 May 2013 18:14 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I think ILX predates David Moyes, it was created in the Walter Smith era.

Liverpool have had five managers in that time. Spurs have had eight.

― Matt DC, Friday, 10 May 2013 18:29 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22483636

tony conte clearly angling for the plum goodison role

― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 10 May 2013 18:32 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

The Internet's origins are pretty foggy afaict, but Utd are definitely about to get their first new manager since before The Web started.

― Ismael Klata, Friday, 10 May 2013 18:53 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Not so. Use the search function:

Another shocking display from United tonight - I think Big Ron's days in the job are numbered. And I suspect that one day in the distant future he'll accidentally broadcast some racist abuse.
- Ned Raggett, 4 November 1986 21:42 (26 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― Hearing moyes confirmedare we hearing m (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 10 May 2013 20:17 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

That's excellent.

I can't believe I was daft enough to say Moyes at EFC predated ilx -- he's been there for 11 years, I forgot that ilx was over 12 years old.

― the pinefox, Friday, 10 May 2013 21:07 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I think Kendall will struggle at Bilbao; Colin Harvey is the tactical brain in that partnership. I have no such fears for EFC - the squad is strong and with the impending addition of Barnes and Beardsley (where else would they go?) I can't really see anyone challenging us for the next few years. I think we may match LFC's 16 titles by the late-'90s!
- Michael Jones, 18 June 1987 17:55 (25 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― Michael Jones, Saturday, 11 May 2013 12:22 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Everton 2-0 West Ham United

a fine first Toffee goal here: all passed along the ground, 'your Brazilian blend' (John Helm)

Fulham 1-3 Liverpool

Liverpool look increasingly dangerous -- seems they will do better next season.

― the pinefox, Sunday, 12 May 2013 23:05 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

i am watching the highlights of the liverpool game, they don't look any great shakes in this one. but they have looked better lately (easy to play when their season has been over since whenever, though?)

― i gave ten pounds and all i got was a lousy * (darraghmac), Sunday, 12 May 2013 23:23 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

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