1970-1979 WTF - The Hard 'n' Heavy 'n' Loud + Krautrock, Arty, Noisy, Weird, Funky, Punky Shit - Albums Poll! - VOTING THREAD! Closes Mar 8th 11.59 PM UK Time - All ILXORS/LURKERS WELCOME

and there was a LOT of complaints when some was included in this poll

early minimalism is v. clearly more abrasive and dissonant than the more florid later works. and w/the 80s, there was so much genre convergence, that minimalism was already in a sense included in the poll in a number of different guises that I've referenced above. look, what's done is done w/r/t the poll, but denying the connections between the obsessive psych Reich was pushing and later rock is madness.

I hope you guys aren't sleeping on the riffage, hard rock onslaught on these records!!!
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8186/8131243843_de6b10cee2.jpg
Sabbath will probably take this poll, but meanwhile Bang was feeding Christians to lions on their self titled Metal Monster!! Here's my favorite RYM review of Bang
“Bang” by Bang, from 1971, it’s a futile, stupid exercise on the Black Sabbath mimicry, a singer who sings like Ossie Osborne, a guitarist who guitars like Antonio Iommi, and a drummer who drums like William Ward.
Ack: throw me all the fucking shit you want: Bang, and their retarded synonymia bores the fucking Atlantic ocean out me: songs that want to emulate the menacing vibe of Balck Sabbath, meh and more meh.
How, for the life of me will you name “Bang” a band? And their first and eponymicist album is also called “Bang”??!!? Wot the chac?
There are in here attempts of a sensitive folk bullshit, namely “Last will”, which is deader than your GYBE! (get yer bollocks east) Or how the fuck is called.
I don’t get tired of repeating all these proto metal obscurities are a 87,6 percent crap, what’s the point, what’s THE GRACE in digging this? Who the fuck? These are the Black Sabbath roadies: I don’t want, give me the originals, or give me Soulja Boy, or Soja, or soy, but not these lousy impersonators.
In the tune “Come with me” there is “tapping”, fact that shows that Edward Van Hat did not invent this technique, technique that, on the other hand, is quite a twathead of a way to play guitar, if you ask me. “Our home” is, regardless, such a fine cunt-rock, barbaric admixture of Black Sabbath with The Beatels, with heavy-hippie chorus, and I bet that “Bang” barely used to take showers: did I guess right? On the other hand, “Future shock” is more kleptomania from...from who could be? YES: YOU GUESSED RIGHT
It’s from Black Sabbath...but then is not on the other hand: it’s on the same hand, heh *falls unconscious, stands up suddenly, keeps on typing* Someone told me that this kind of music is to listen to if you are stoned, but I think that if you listen to Bang being stoned, the hallucinations may turn into vivid nightmares, especially because Bang are horrible.
I recently knew that the guitarist composed the whole album in 2 hours, listening to “Paranoid” out loud with headphones, and drinking wino “pajarito”: at this stage of the game, the mimetism turns into unbearable for the listener to stand these souls with out a personality, playing the same caveman’s riffola which goes the fuck nowhere, I mean: yeah, “you imitate Sabbath: great, but hey: why the cocks don’t you do “the shift”, and cut the fucking crap once for all: cannot do something a bit different?”
No: Bang cannot do something else than this poor art, this beggars’ banquet: after a song that has an 1% of Uriah Heep influence, the blessed end to these 34 minutes comes, with “Redman”: more stolid riffa-raffa, cowbell, and overall, less grace than a shoe soup.
Unfortunately after the release, the bassist committed suicide while listened to this, but survived, because the bullet experienced a weird parabola into his skull, and the bullet still is there: into his skull today, 2009, the doctors say that if the bullet is extracted, this poor man would get suddenly dissolved in seconds, turning into a gluey dough like that Edgar Poe’s Mr. Valdemar, lol.
Possibly if Black Sabbath never existed Bang would have played skifle; or Paraguayan polka, tango nuevo, maybe Andean folklore, carnavalito perhaps? Don’t know, it’s hard to guess. Listen to Bang!!!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8336/8131112722_14ec0fb864.jpg
Jeff Liberman channels Carlos Santana on his second record titled 'Solitude Within' and it is kind of a lonely record, when you can turn out solos like this!!! The record is spit between instrumentals and hammered vocals where he sings like he's trying to charm a lady out of her dress. This record shreds!!!!

Rise Above reissued the Bang albums.

yeah they're on spotify too, I'm checking them out for sure!

I dont think they're on spotify here

or they weren't a month ago when i checked. Just albums by someone else with the same name but it looks like some stuffs been added

Albini built a goddamn cottage industry from this robo-pound impulse (did you think the cover of The Model was strictly for laffs?). after that, Ministry, Nine Inch Nails, Gore, Prong, Pantera, etc. all fell into line.

and w/the 80s, there was so much genre convergence, that minimalism was already in a sense included in the poll in a number of different guises that I've referenced above.

Come on, saying that Ministry and Nine Inch Nails may have been influenced on some level by minimalism is not the same as saying that minimalism itself was thus included in the 80s poll. (Plenty of psychedelic rock has been influenced by Indian classical music but that does not mean that Hindustani music itself is part of the poll.) And thinking that Reich should be excluded from this poll is not the same as denying that there is any connection between his work and that of rock artists.

With any sort of genre distinction, there is some grey area. If you're mainly emphasizing abrasiveness and dissonance as the defining criteria, then perhaps you would include this stuff (although it would make even more sense to include Penderecki and Ligeti then, which you might also favour). I tend to place significant importance on timbre/instrumentation and beat/rhythmic patterns, to a lesser extent song forms, although not exclusively. Many of the bands in these lists played around with all of these elements but still seem to use them as a reference point. There is an obsessively repetitive and heavily emphasized rhythmic pulse in Reich but I don't see it as having much to do with a rock backbeat. (It has more to do with West African drumming patterns, if anything.)

In any case, I think it's going too far to say that people who would want to exclude Steve Reich, who is almost universally categorized as a classical composer, from a 70s heavy rock poll are trolling.

Come on, saying that Ministry and Nine Inch Nails may have been influenced on some level by minimalism is not the same as saying that minimalism itself was thus included in the 80s poll. (Plenty of psychedelic rock has been influenced by Indian classical music but that does not mean that Hindustani music itself is part of the poll.)

the key phrase I used was "in a sense". obv minimalism per se wasn't included in the 80s poll, but I think that a lot of its more aggro traits had by that time been absorbed by rock (and can even be said to have been transforming rock during that period). also, minimalism in the 80s (at least in its most commercial incarnations) had really evolved (or devolved, depending on your perspective) into a cloying sort of lite/NPR-approved art music that I think is fairly distant from rock (I think minimalism split itself in two at some point, perhaps towards the late middle of the 70s, with its more aggressive elements being absorbed and transformed by a number of other genres, while minimalism proper gradually grew more and more baroque and compromised). the really key early 70s works, though, obviously hadn't been absorbed until after their appearance, and for this reason I think the notion of their inclusion in this particular poll has merit (even though it's kind of ridiculous to argue about it at this point).

I threw out the terms "abrasive" and "dissonant" merely to emphasize the radical starkness of the v. early minimal works as compared to the later, more complex and more melodic pieces that most people actually associate w/minimalism. while I think that minimalism's radical simplicity was in and of itself hugely influential (especially in punk-related spheres), I agree that rhythm is really more of the defining characteristic. now, the issue of minimalism's inclusion doesn't pivot around Reich's intentionality in terms of whether or not he in any way saw himself and what he did as being related to rock, but rather the effect of his music on rock. also, while "West African drumming patterns" may be the academically correct way of referring to Reich's rhythms, I hear in his early works speed-freak tempos and a monomaniacal drive that easily transcends the realm of the metronomic and pushes clear into rock territory. also, any relation to West African drumming necessarily brings us in a roundabout way back to rock (or a "rock backbeat"). so, in a way I don't really care if Reich is "universally categorized as a classical composer", b/c that's a mere abstraction and I'm talking about v. specific and concrete traits regarding his early work that I think were hugely influential in rock.

now, generally speaking, I'm mainly referring to the earlier minimalist works, so perhaps our disagreement stems in part from a misunderstanding on that point. you may also be using Carducci's definition of rock and automatically excluding everything that doesn't refer to small-band music centered around guitar and live drums. the main problem w/sticking with this formula is that you end up green-lighting horseshit like Bon Jovi and excluding Keiji Haino. for me, music that can be described as rock (or rock-influenced, or rawk or rocking or w/e) generally has to have either a v. genuine sonic or conceptual aggression, and I hear both in Reich's music, and furthermore can very easily hear where this aggression later emerges in rock music. (I suppose using the general definition of this poll, Bon Jovi is rock but doesn't rawk, while Reich's early synth and piano works definitely rawk).

finally, the 80s poll was trolled incessantly by people up in arms about the criteria, and when this poll's inclusion of minimalism looked like it was going to ignite a similar amount of controversy, the plug was almost instantaneously pulled. now we have a v. nice, normal poll w/out any drama, but this has proved unexpectedly unfortunate.

it's an internet bulletin board poll.
get a grip !

^^^

c'mon man, this is the most action this poll has seen in two weeks!

and wtf, the very definition of internet bulletin board poll involves inane hair-splitting and ridiculous arguments.

ah, i see.
IMO the qualification criteria were wildly elastic and inconsistent, but it wasn't ever my poll, so fair do's.
back in the seventies rock was rock. reich was fringe academic classical. at that time very different spheres / audiences. rhythm pre-dates minimalism.
BTW i nearly nommed algarnas tradgard, but it didn't get over my own rock threshold despite guitars & drums.

Albini built a goddamn cottage industry from this robo-pound impulse
urgh i was sick in my mouth there for a second

IMO the qualification criteria were wildly elastic and inconsistent, but it wasn't ever my poll, so fair do's.
back in the seventies rock was rock. reich was fringe academic classical. at that time very different spheres / audiences. rhythm pre-dates minimalism.

tbf, no one could ever find any cluster of criteria that would satisfy everyone. I think the poll has been fairly consistent given the task at hand, but there have been times when my own picks were booted, so naturally I have gripes. really, my point here is more to boost Reich in the context of 70s psych than tear down the poll. in terms of "rock was rock", we ran into the same issue w/the 80s poll where REM were v. early on in their career lumped in by association w/punk, but in retrospect seem v. twee and not at all punk rock.

urgh i was sick in my mouth there for a second

ha! it does have a distinctly stomach-churning quality, for a variety of reasons.

oh yeah - nowt against AG or the poll. genres only exist by distinction & no two people distinguish the same so, there's always going to be friction. i'm still peeved that i didn't get my cecil taylors through, but it doesn't really matter.
the very thought of assigning any value to anything steve albini has ever done makes me queasy, though.

but he's #!

Ha, I think I'd sooner include Steve Reich than Cecil Taylor (whom I also like plenty).

Hm, Black Oak Arkansas are actually sounding pretty good.

BOA sound great! Very underrated band, IMO.

Have you guys been checking out Blue Mountain Eagle!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Otc_okvDfzU/TOn18hjdy1I/AAAAAAAAATE/nbCkLCjtA48/s1600/bluemountaineagle01jpg.jpg
Searing Heavy Heavy Psych with a hint of southern rawk , it's got melodies too!! Check out Feel Like a Bandit, Loveless Lives, and Trivial Sum.

checking it out now!!

also been going through things I kinda know about but not really... This has stood out as an easy ballot choice for me:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519dR4rjVVL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

This is one "supergroup" that deserves the designation!

ok I finally finished my albums ballot... time to move on to tracks!

My (late as usual) verdict on Satori - good, but not quite as good as Yeti.

One thing I've discovered, 70s Boomtown Rats >>>> 80s Boomtown Rats.

Hoping that plenty of you will be joining me in giving a vote to the Runaways' self-titled album as one of the ultimate good-times albums. Teenpop-loving old men of ILM, time to do your duty. ;)

hey guys im gonna extend voting til basically after the EOY polls. It gives everyone more time to check out albums before voting. Dont worry its not cancelled it will resume january or feb at the latest when the big eoy poll is done. Anyone who voted; your ballot is safe. Anyone can still vote in the meantime and of course you can resend ballots later too if you wish to change.

Feel free to keep discussing albums here as i intend to do that.

Yeah, that sounds good. Made any good new discoveries?

Not as yet, but I will do hopefully as I have given us all time to do exactly that! Also afaik the tracks poll is going ahead so everyone can concentrate on it and worry about albums later. Its a lot of listening.

Oh God AG thank you!

Really liked Area - Crac! Ironically, I wasn't checking out that many tracks at all since I was trying to catch up on albums.

Campaigning for albums should still continue as it gives everyone time to check out albums. And if you want to vote go ahead! pollwill still happen dont worry.

OK in the spirit of keeping conversation going -
I'm still working my way through the albums that are sort of cult favorites on here & elsewhere but that I'd not heard previously. Yesterday I gave Sir Lord Baltimore - Kingdom Come a listen. First thoughts - love the guitar sound on it, not so mad about some of the actual songs and the singing style. That guitar sound though - scorching!

Also appreciate the general manic atmosphere that the album has.

There's still some doubles on spreadsheet (Ace Frehley s/t and Ace Frehley - Ace Frehely, I'm drinking cold gin with you) ... Should I be concerned? Filling out ballot today/tonight and gettin' to ya.

ok will sort it. Keep your ballots coming they will be safe til they get counted.

Ok, but delaying up to 3 months is quite a long time! From what I've seen, this will lose momentum/energy within a few weeks. Why not set the deadline for mid-December and roll it out then? EOY doesn't roll out until later in January at the latest, so it wouldn't interfere.

I'm continuing to check out stuff from the list, but nothing from the past few weeks so far that's going to impact my top 100. For example, I'm glad I was reminded to check out Beck, Bogert & Appice. It's cool to hear what happened when they finally together post-Cactus. Their musicianship is tip-top, but as much as I like it and Cactus, the songs are not quite up to the standards of anything in the top 100.

However, if your schedule simply got too busy to do this before next year, then by all means do what you gotta do. But I don't think the rest of us need more than another 30-40 days!

*later in January at the EARLIEST

Does this mean nominations open up again? Can't believe no 'Look At Yourself' by Uriah Heep (and many others, actually)...

Perhaps a clean up of 'The' and no 'The' for bands in the spreadsheet layout?

I'll have a look and see if i can edit it if not i'll ask seandalai

that's for removing "the" btw. Wont be reopening nominations

maybe a mod could change the title to voting still open but doesnt close til feb 2013?

That would be nice! Also, maybe less TEXT IN CAPS? It makes it very visible, but also harder to read, IMO.

Yeah it's pretty quiet. I still support just doing it in December, but up to AG.

http://lisathatcher.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/ns-1.jpg%3Fw%3D594%26h%3D509

Night Sun - Mournin' (Zebra/Second Battle, 1972)
Among previously overlooked cult albums by Jerusalem, Lucifer's Friend, Bang, Blues Creation and Blackwater Park, Night Sun's Mournin' stands out in the pack as an exceptional piece of German proto-metal with elements of spacy, jazzy prog, screamy Ian Gillian style vocals, and even some moments of doomy heaviness surpassed at the time only by Sabbath. Though it was produced by Conny Plank at windrose in Hamburg, Mournin' was not celebrated along with the likes of Plank-produced Kraftwerk, Faust and Ash Ra Tempel mainly because its proggy proto-metal was simply not fashionable, at least until recently. Many of the members have a background in 60s jazz band Take Five, and it shows in their chops. The keyboard-heavy grooves still have that satisfyingly lumbering stomp, but they can spin on a dime when they need to, like on the scorching "Nightmare." The instrumental "Got A Bone Of My Own," "Plastic Shotgun" and "Crazy Woman" are just as impressive and compare well against the best that Uriah Heep and Atomic Rooster have to offer from all their albums.

Night Sun is back in stock at Aquarius records and also available at Reckless Records in Chicago.

Full album: http://youtu.be/Iy6GbLoSxBg

So I can still vote in this? Cool. Deadline again?

february/march?

Sheeit. I just noticed there is no Kevin Coyne on here. Any chance for late nominations seeing as there is more time?

Decided to finally take the plunge with Hawkwind - after one listen through Space Ritual I can already see why some people get so heavily into these guys.

Whatever happened to this poll? Is it still going to happen?