Which film critics do you trust (if any?)

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Twentieth Century is great, yeah... but Eric already gave it a mere 2-1/2 stars on Slant.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:17 (eighteen years ago) link

I remember saying that, but obviously not enough to carry a grudge, whatever the context of that "enraged" bit.

Yeah, I didn't really like Twentieth Century or Monkey Business much. (Only Angels is yet to be viewed and I have high hopes.) I accept the Hawks situation as my loss, as of yet.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:21 (eighteen years ago) link

tv values can certainly be traced as far back as Paddy Chayefsky. who was attacking, you know, television.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:22 (eighteen years ago) link

tv values -- haha, am researching bbc tv's first director of drama (1936-9) currently. with a number of people he argued that tv should be more like film (ie taped, edited) than theatre (performed live). it took a few years before this was possible, but, well, it happened guys! get the net!

enrique's pseudonym, Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:26 (eighteen years ago) link

What would be great is if movies became more like old school, live tv soaps and sitcoms! No outtakes! Completely confusing plots and flubbed dialog! Bad make up and lighting! And don't even bring up Lars von Trier in my face cos the face ain't listening to that noise. I'm talking like Dark Shadows level of ridiculous.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:30 (eighteen years ago) link

I would have loved Revenge of the Sith had Ian MacDiarmid played Palpatine as Barnabas.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:33 (eighteen years ago) link

it took a few years before this was possible, but, well, it happened guys! get the net!

Still too busy trying to snare Vlada Petric in Bright Leaves.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:35 (eighteen years ago) link

I wouldn't have brought up LvT, ally, but I would consider Paul Morrissey.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:37 (eighteen years ago) link

The problem with discussing this "tv values" vs. "movie values" thing NOW is that you've got movie directors raised on TV going back to TV and back again. "movie values" AND "tv values" have been crosspolinating for a while. If there's anything to talk about, it's the rise of "DVD values" in TV.

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:37 (eighteen years ago) link

and vice versa.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:39 (eighteen years ago) link

;_;

it was just a joke, jesus is sad when people really do imitate Dark Shadows.

xpost what the hell are "DVD values" now? I'm going to claim it's "Pop Up Video Values" that are ruining movies and stick with that, see how many people I can convince.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Anthony OTM. For every friend who crows that TV offers more developed characters than film, I remind them that they often have to buy the shows on DVD and watch the supplemental material to buttress their claims.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:40 (eighteen years ago) link

if that guy has problems with 'crash', let him state them without getting into an inevitably wrongheaded 'x = essence of medium' type argument. these *never* work. bbc duder i was talking about had to put up with ppl who thought soviet-style montage was 'the essence of cinema'. today it's neo-bazinian types who think the medium is all about kiarostami (well, not today, but recently) or the taiwanese guys.

it's plain as day that there is no essence of the apparatus 'cinema' -- it's motion picture technology put to this or that purpose, and even the 90 minute feature form changes, has changed radically, and always has.

enrique's pseudonym, Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:41 (eighteen years ago) link

A lot of shows are kept on longer because they sell well on DVD, some even resurrected after cancellation. Some shows are being tailored to a different market now.

x-post re: "DVD values"

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:42 (eighteen years ago) link

4 real?

enrique, west wing fan, Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:44 (eighteen years ago) link

For the original question: David Sterritt comes closer to my tastes and opinions than anyone else I know.
-- sleep (enemy.airshi...), April 12th, 2006.

this literaly landed in my inbox from another list:

"April 13, 2006
Re: Scatology
From: David Sterritt

Has anyone mentioned "La Grande bouffe," the 1973 Marco Ferreri film? Higher up the artistic scale is Godard's intricate "Numero Deux," which uses conspitation as a central metaphor and signals its multivalent concerns with same right from the title.

David Sterritt, Ph.D.
Adjunct Professor of Language, Literature and Culture
Maryland Institute College of Art
Chairman, National Society of Film Critics
Programming Associate, Makor/Steinhardt Center of the 92nd Street Y
Special Correspondent, The Christian Science Monitor
Professor Emeritus of Theater and Film, Long Island University"

enrique's pseudonym, Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:47 (eighteen years ago) link

wait, people actually buy DVDs of shows? Currently on the air, weekly shows?? I thought that was made up.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:49 (eighteen years ago) link

major "TV value": every theme and plot point being presented explicitly (thru dialogue or action), pref numerous times, because people leave the theater (or talk) during a film nearly as often as they take a whiz or answer the phone during TV watching.
(And don't cite exceptions, cuz we're talking tendencies.)

And yeah, the proles are dumber than they've ever been.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:50 (eighteen years ago) link

And don't cite exceptions, cuz we're talking tendencies.

k. does that mean you'll cite actual examples?

enrique's flabbergasted pseudonym, Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:51 (eighteen years ago) link

That value has existed in cinema since the day they first opened the doors on the first motion picture theatre.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:51 (eighteen years ago) link

wait, people actually buy DVDs of shows? Currently on the air, weekly shows?? I thought that was made up.

The Sopranos, Sex in the City, Six Feet Under, Queer as Folk...

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link

actually yeah, plz to expand on:

"every theme and plot point being presented explicitly (thru dialogue or action)"

cos without dialogue or action, you have something like an empty screen.

enrique, interested, Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link

the proles are dumber than they've ever been.

Poor, rural, uneducated Depression-era audiences to thread.

phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Between DVD and the internet, TV and movie makers are dealing with a lot of relatively new influences on what & how people want to consume things. You have a show like the US Office where the ratings aren't so hot, but clips of it are some of the most popular downloads. People are trying to find a way to make a show profitable in the short run AND in these new slow-burn markets. Movies and TV still affect each other, but the give and take is harder to pinpoint, less noteworthy 50 years in.

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:55 (eighteen years ago) link

wait, people actually buy DVDs of shows? Currently on the air, weekly shows?? I thought that was made up.

I work at a video store, and believe me they do. A LOT more than shows that are off the air.

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:57 (eighteen years ago) link

It's a way to catch up, to see an extended narrative on your own time and free of ads.

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Wow! Actually I have the Sex in the City DVDs which were gifted to me since I didn't have cable, so I shouldn't be very surprised by this. I think I assumed Anthony meant sitcoms and network television shows only for some reason, which is completely mental behavior in my mind.

xpost Wow!!

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 13:59 (eighteen years ago) link

lol nrq

cos without dialogue or action, you have something like an empty screen.

this sounds like the best movie ever!

sleep (sleep), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:01 (eighteen years ago) link

But depending on the show you're talking about, it's not just the show itself, but the extra features that lend insight into the creative process, talk about the history of the show, etc., etc. The Simpsons DVD sets are the ne plus ultra of this, IMO.

phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Ilxors are the kind of people who'd make other friends (assuming they have other friends) run to the DVD store to catch up on what they've been prattling about.

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link

I have no idea what that means and I don't buy your YSI culture.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:05 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't really know if that's always the case, Phil D. We have to include Bonus Features discs with the last disc of episodes in rentals, because most people do not give a shit.

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:05 (eighteen years ago) link

"every theme and plot point being presented explicitly (thru dialogue or action)"

cos without dialogue or action, you have something like an empty screen.

...

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Really? Because, I mean . . . really? Huh. But, well, in the specific case of the Simpsons, every episode, through seven seasons of DVDs now, has a commentary which includes the producers, artists, episode directors, voice talents, etc. If you're into that sort of thing, it's very illuminating.

I can't imagine just renting the show for the show itself. Weird.

phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Not to mention people that buy the DVDs of every cartoon ever shown on Adult Swim, including Futurama and Family Guy. Oh yeah, and Arrested Development, which people apparently only really watch on dvd.

mike h. (mike h.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Even a door opening and closing for 3 hours straight is an action explicitly depicting a plot. I know you only acknowledge in film discussions the existance of Eric, jaymc, and Alfred, each a fine gentleman of course, but if you're going to revive threads and try to engage discussions--and then complain Kate-style about how people didn't follow your script--it'd do you well to make any attempt to actually engage with the people talking to you, Morbius, and stop insulting them. Even if they're "idiots" like enrique, blount, or myself.

Now plz to continue blatantly ignoring everything I say and making snarky comments elsewhere, it silently entertains several people and quite frakly me at this point.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Futurama and Family Guy were cancelled until they came out on DVD, weren't they? Maybe Futurama was never actually revived into a new series.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:14 (eighteen years ago) link

"every theme and plot point being presented explicitly (thru dialogue or action)"
cos without dialogue or action, you have something like an empty screen.

...

-- Dr Morbius (wjwe...), April 13th, 2006.

oh! the pwnage!

how to come back, i just don't know...

enrique's wounded pride, Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't imagine just renting the show for the show itself. Weird.

Is it really that weird? The only TV I watch is music videos (or stations I wish were playing music videos), so if I do bother to watch a show, it's through DVD. Admittedly I get to see them for free, but it's a lot more enjoyable than waiting once a week to catch a show with ads. People also get to see another episode immediately on the same disc. I assume it's more popular to watch shows on DVD than on TiVo.

x-post Family Guy is kind of the classic example (Though adult swim helped too)

Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, Futurama never came back, but the DVDs allowed them to get out several episodes that never aired on FOX thanks to their dumbass scheduling. Great DVDs, too, since showrunner/writer David X. Cohen is a nerd extraordinaire who delights in explaining all the physics, math and computer science jokes that eluded about 90% of the audience.

phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 13 April 2006 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm pretty sure '24' continues on the air only partially because of the pretty good ratings. it's mostly because of the DVD sales and the overseas success.

gear (gear), Thursday, 13 April 2006 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link

and i've only seen 'goodbye, dragon inn' by Tsai ming-Liang, which i thought was as good a film as i've seen in the past few years. much like 'once upon a time in the west', it moved by swiftly in what seemed to be half the running time, despite (perhaps because of?) the slow pace.

gear (gear), Thursday, 13 April 2006 15:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Dave Thomas' writes in such, lovely, irony aware, self concicously dazzling prose, that i am seduced to agreeing w. him, and never sure i really do. A perfect example is his last two ppghs of his review of the new anthology of american film writing published by the Library of America, speaking of said, has anyone read the anthology?

anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 13 April 2006 15:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Thomson, sorry

and while we are at it, go read Ebert on BI:2

anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 13 April 2006 15:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I like Thomson a lot, but he's one of those nostalgists we attacked upthread. The sentimentality with which he couches some of his most trenchant writing (in his recent The Whole Equation he can't resist wearing sackcloth when the careers of Erich von Stroheim and Griffith are discussed, and he latches on to Nicole Kidman as if she was the Carole Lombard or Gloria Grahame of our time ) makes him a woozy read.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 April 2006 16:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Tsai ming-Liang has interested me since the first feature, with the bad plumbing, odd musicality and the queer James Dean/Sal Mineo presence of Lee Kang-Sheng, but really hit his stride with The River (bottoming out with family despair) and then What Time Is It There? -- hopeful, generous, the family gone global and beyond death. And this new one's got watermelons and porn.

Nicole Kidman is great in The Portrait of a Lady.

See the Seitz blog link comments for multiple angles on TV, film, distribution.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 April 2006 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Vive L'Amour was a little bleak!

sleep (sleep), Thursday, 13 April 2006 16:31 (eighteen years ago) link

not compared to The River!

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 April 2006 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link

The second half of the G. Cheshire interview, on nonfiction, indie distrib and his own doc feature:

http://mattzollerseitz.blogspot.com/2006/04/cinema-dead-and-alive-interview-with_15.html


"...The rise of documentaries is related to the decline of European auteurs, and the failure of significant American auteurs to arise from and remain in the independent world in very significant numbers. If you look at the whole Sundance phenomenon, there was such promise there, but while you’ve got a few interesting directors coming up, most of them just go on to the majors or whatever. In the past, people would go to the independent theaters and art theaters for foreign films, and specifically the great tradition of European films. That has dried up."

Also, Seitz quotes Dave Kehr in the Comments: "In other words, ‘straight-to-video’ once meant ‘not good enough to be shown in theaters.’ Now it means ‘too good to be shown in theaters.’ That’s the reality.”

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 17 April 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago) link

he latches on to Nicole Kidman as if she was the Carole Lombard or Gloria Grahame of our time

this is only wrong insofar as the studio/star system that made grahame/lombard possible died 45 years ago; but kidman is certainly 'as good'.

25 yr old slacker cokehead (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 April 2006 13:37 (eighteen years ago) link


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