seems pretty obv
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink
ok...how does that square with the boom in free rap mixtapes?
also, i don't think i realised til now how airplay-driven charts would help songs specifically popular in demographics with no spare $$$ to actually buy them in whatever format.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink
Note that of the top 20-selling songs in the US during the first half of 2012, only two, #16 "Rack City" and #18 "The Motto" reached the top 50 of the r&b chart.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink
what genre of music dominates the US singles charts now?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:09 (7 months ago) Permalink
i mean if you want to go by the stereotype that country fans are rural/poorer than the same would apply to them too
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I don't think this is as true as one might assume? A lot of well-off suburban country listeners. Or at least country seems to do fairly well on Itunes.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:09 (7 months ago) Permalink
capital-p Pop -- Katy Perry, Rihanna, Gaga, Kelly Clarkson, Pink, One Direction, etc. although this year stuff like Gotye and fun. has mixed things up a bit. (xpost)
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:10 (7 months ago) Permalink
there's also the argument that buying your favorite song on iTunes (as opposed to just listening to it on the radio, streaming it on YouTube now and again, or buying the album) is a generational habit, and so things that skew younger benefit from this -- Taylor, Rihanna etc.
i mean it sucks because a lot of these formats had been fostering new stars and putting interesting songs at #1 lately, but you're never gonna see Miguel top the R&B chart or Eric Church top the country chart again after this
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:11 (7 months ago) Permalink
don't forget Maroon 5
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (7 months ago) Permalink
interesting stuff. i don't have my head entirely around the numbers & methodologies here, but there's something about a "return to monoculture" either in real terms or as a measurement phenomenon.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (7 months ago) Permalink
is the pop domination due to itunes or changing of radio playlists/genre stations changing to top 40 or just one of those things that happens?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (7 months ago) Permalink
It's been happening on radio for a while. It's impossible to break the Rihanna-Goyte-Katy-Perry-Maroon-5 stranglehold on Clear Channel Radio. I mean, I hear "One More Night" every 45 minutes.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:15 (7 months ago) Permalink
but you're never gonna see Miguel top the R&B chart or Eric Church top the country chart again after this
to be blunt about this, it's because, even though Rihanna makes club trance, she "is R&B" (because, you know), and Taylor Swift makes pop dubstep, she "is country" (again, because, you know). right?
in a way it seems like this is a identity/identification/musicalogical problem. almost.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:16 (7 months ago) Permalink
Taylor Swift... makes pop dubstep?
― The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (7 months ago) Permalink
p much
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (7 months ago) Permalink
well, it's because when five Rihanna tracks become available her fans will download them at once from iTunes.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (7 months ago) Permalink
SWIFTSTEP
― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink
What would an ideal modern chart system look like?
― wk, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink
I'll assume you don't want to hear her latest track.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink
"Adorn" and "Springsteen" topping every chart.
http://soundcloud.com/taylorswiftofficial/i-knew-you-were-trouble
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:12 PM Bookmark
Both of those things are happening. Another part of this phenomenon I wanted to get into is how specialized radio stations have been getting pushed off the airwaves. A few years ago another change that happened is how Arbitron, the company that measures radio station ratings (and thus, how much $$$ stations get from advertisers), changed their own system from one in which their sample listeners kept diaries of what they listened to to one in which an electronic device automatically records what radio they listen to. There have been arguments about their sampling methodology underrepresenting minorities and related issues, but the effect of this switch has been black- and latino-focused radio stations plummeting in ratings. A lot have switched formats and this is compounded by the fact that many talk, news, and sports stations have been ditching AM radio for FM, which has traditionally been the domain of music stations due to its higher fidelity. A few years ago, Seattle had three high-powered commercial stations that focused on black music - a rap/r&b station, an "adult rhythmic" station that focused on 80s-2000s dance & r&b hits, and a smooth jazz/adult r&b station. Today only the former is left, and it skews much more towards pop.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:25 (7 months ago) Permalink
lol hell no
― The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:27 (7 months ago) Permalink
this is a identity/identification/musicalogical problem
it has always been this way. R&B is just shorthand for "black", 'twas ever thus
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:29 (7 months ago) Permalink
The adult rhythmic station is now top 40 and the smooth jazz station is now sports, fwiw. KUBE, the r&b/rap station, used to be an unassailable ratings kingpin, but now lags behind both the newly-top 40 Movin 92.5 and the already existing top 40 station Kiss 106, which used to have very mediocre ratings.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:30 (7 months ago) Permalink
xp to Rev: something like this happened in the twin cities too. there was a lone black oriented pop station up and running for quite a few years (B96). interestingly it was a new startup at the time (i need to look up exactly when but it was in the 00s) i could tell that the advertiser base was becoming increasingly reliant on only a few businesses as the years went by. and then one day it was done, changed to a pretty generic 80s-10s pop/rock station, a bit like the JackFM format.
xp idk how common this phenomenon was across black radio nationally but this station had its slice of white club pop: gwen stefani, justin timberlake, lady gaga, and right before the end, kesha.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:31 (7 months ago) Permalink
for the last decade or so, there have been 3 contemporary R&B/rap stations in Baltimore and D.C. that all pretty much play the same things from the top of the R&B/Hip Hop Songs chart. in the last year, one of the D.C. stations began dropping Ellie Goulding and Katy Perry and Gotye and Flo Rida into their playlist. and they're the only R&B station i've heard Rihanna's now-#1 R&B hit "Diamonds" on.
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:31 (7 months ago) Permalink
xp to myself: er when i say "lone" that's not quite true, there's been a lower-powered black community radio station, KMOJ, on the air here for years. this was the only black radio station with broadcasting reach over the entire metro.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:33 (7 months ago) Permalink
Until now, only country stations contributed to the Hot Country Songs chart, or R&B/hip-hop stations to Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs; the same held true for Latin and rock. The new methodology, which will utilize the Hot 100's formula of incorporating airplay from more than 1,200 stations of all genres monitored by BDS, will reward crossover titles receiving airplay on a multitude of formats. With digital download sales and streaming data measuring popularity on the most inclusive scale possible, it is only just the radio portion of Billboard chart calculations that includes airplay from the entire spectrum of monitored formats.
UGH.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:33 (7 months ago) Permalink
I mean not what kind of music would make up the charts, but how would a properly designed modern chart system function?
I'm trying to wrap my head around how all of this works, but the idea that there was this beneficial feedback loop between radio and what the audience was buying is interesting and something I've never really considered. It makes sense that a chart that allows for some input from tastemakers would work better than one that strictly tracks sales. I always thought of that feedback loop in a negative way, as a pointless echo chamber, and a decade ago I would have thought that something like an itunes chart would end up being more diverse and interesting than a radio-driven chart, but obviously that's not the case.
So I'm kind of wondering what other kinds of gatekeeper or tastemaking factors could be input into the equation besides radio? Like in theory it seems like you could develop some kind of interesting combination of online sales and listening metrics (itunes, spotify listens, lastfm) and then add in something like hype machine data for the gatekeeper input. But that wouldn't really work in the same way and wouldn't result in the kind of beneficial feedback loop that existed between radio and retail.
― wk, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:33 (7 months ago) Permalink
Boston's R&B/hip-hop station has been a ClearChannel property for years and has therefore already been on this bandwagon; the interesting thing happening here is the dismantling of all of the alternative stations
xp: goole I was gonna ask if KMOJ disappeared after this summer!
― The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:34 (7 months ago) Permalink
i think that the genre charts should have remained dictated by airplay on only stations of particular formats. the Hot 100 and various Digital Sales charts already did a good job of showing what was selling even if it wasn't getting airplay. MAYBE the genre charts could have digital sales factored in, but at a much lower rate than they are now, where it just feels like this trump card that overrides all other factors.
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:35 (7 months ago) Permalink
if you look at Billboard's Radio Songs chart, which is all airplay from all formats, you can see that there's clearly just way more pop stations than anything else right now. the 10th biggest pop song on it often outperforms whatever the biggest song on urban radio is.
DJP: i can't/don't listen to it at all really but it's still around afaik: http://kmojfm.com/
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:38 (7 months ago) Permalink
I share most of the above concerns about these changes. But is it possible this move could actually prove a good thing by allowing stations to rely less on the charts? Stations still ultimately have agency over what they play, so I don't think urban stations are going to start playing Rihanna just because her songs appear on their charts as a technicality, and if these charts really do become as messy and random as we're predicting here, isn't it possible that could make them such unreliable barometers that stations begin ignoring them?
― Evan R, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:39 (7 months ago) Permalink
I don't know how you break the interdependence of stations and the charts tbh
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:41 (7 months ago) Permalink
that's a nice thought, but generally anytime some shit happens that makes me hope "maybe this is the breaking point and from here on out things will get more regionalized and freeform and open-minded!" i'm wrong. (xpost)
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:42 (7 months ago) Permalink
Rev, re limited American radio options, this started back last century, blame Clinton for signing the Gingrich pushed Telecommunications Act of 1996; and radio programmer Lee Abrams homogenized commercial rock radio back in the late 1970s
http://futureofmusic.org/article/research/radio-deregulation-has-it-served-musicians-and-citizens
The radical deregulation of the radio industry allowed by the Telecommunications Act of 1996 has not benefited the public or musicians. Instead, it has led to less competition, fewer viewpoints, and less diversity in programming. Deregulation has damaged radio as a public resource.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:43 (7 months ago) Permalink
I was hoping no one was going to bring up the Act.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:43 (7 months ago) Permalink
to be fair radio HAS learned to ignore songs with iTunes sales bumps for a long time -- if it's a new artist like fun. or PSY then sales helps show the interest, but so far it's rare that some superstar's deep cut that jumps on the Hot 100 purely from sales gets added to playlists (although sometimes sales can help pick singles -- Molanphy had a good column a few months ago how big sales for "Set Fire To The Rain" as an album track contributed to it becoming a single)
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:45 (7 months ago) Permalink
Both KUBE and Kiss 106 in Seattle are Clear Channel. It should be noted that as KUBE is playing an increasing amount of pop (although mostly by black artists - Flo Rida, Rihanna et al), Kiss has eschewed playing rap and r&b at all. The Flo Rida brigade is the only music by black artists they play, and only a few such songs at a time. Their playlist is otherwise white white white white white, which wasn't the case ten years ago, when they were playing 50 Cent just like every other station in America. 92.5 the other, non-Clear Channel top 40 station here, doesn't seem as averse to dropping "Mercy" or whatever from time to time tho.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:45 (7 months ago) Permalink
in ten years all commercial radio is either gonna be chr or talk
― balls, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:48 (7 months ago) Permalink
― some dude, Thursday, October 11, 2012 4:35 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well, obviously there was an irreconcilable problem that the feedback loop had disappeared, right? that radio was just arbitrarily dictating airplay
i mean radio is already fraught w/ payola & etc.
it seems to me the real problem is that online sales produce no demographic information.
― The rain in Spin circles mainly on the mansplain (D-40), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:48 (7 months ago) Permalink
like, genre used to be determined by audience, now it's determined by ... the billboard people guessing based on ???
― The rain in Spin circles mainly on the mansplain (D-40), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:50 (7 months ago) Permalink
yeah, that's a huge problem
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:51 (7 months ago) Permalink
D-40: as i was arguing earlier, just by how the artist in question came up and/or what the song sounds like (often contradictory)
ie Rihanna is and R&B artist so everything she does now is R&B.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:52 (7 months ago) Permalink
*is an
I kind of get the impression payola is actually less of a problem in the post-Act world, because playlists are much more likely to be dictated by some suit at the top then by a radio dj who may be more amenable to an envelope full of bills. Not that that is a case for allowing corporations to buy up 1,000s of stations.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:52 (7 months ago) Permalink
billboard's always pulled this shit though, i can think of twice in the past 15 years where they modified the hot 100 calculation effectively cuz it was skewing too r&b.
― balls, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:52 (7 months ago) Permalink
thanks to mergers there are no local morning zoo deejays getting paid off.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:53 (7 months ago) Permalink
yeah i dunno... old-fashioned elements of the song aside, "Adorn" feels very much of its time, as does Miguel's whole career. and he probably wouldn't have an Usher-type profile in any era. although it does have some things in common with Mario's "Let Me Love You," which was #1 for nine weeks in '05, so you may have a point.
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:03 (1 month ago) Permalink
It doesn't matter, for if I get gay-married, "Adorn" will be the First Dance.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:08 (1 month ago) Permalink
actually found that article pretty weak, like he doesn't rly deliver on the nefarious corporate force pulling the strings he's implying w/ that tone & intro. like he counts Mad Decent & two internet media ones as the corporations responsible for making harlem shake happen... MD released the single & the other two are only implicated because, like, someone at College Humour posted it. (Thousands of “Harlem Shake” videos were uploaded during the week of Feb. 11, many of them from businesses with something to sell. many! oh, no!) and like, hey guess what guys, Youtube is a corporation too! and they're owned by Google, who are really BIG. and the video was posted on Youtube.
also this image linked within the article (although too small to read the text) doesn't seem to support his thesis at all. does make me wonder how they figure out if you're an african american twitter user using harlem shake in its original context tho
― flopson, Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:08 (1 month ago) Permalink
clive davis was on bill maher a few weeks ago doing book promotion and they were essentially talking about how EDM is crap (in so many words) and clive was talking about highlighting REAL MUSICIANS at his pre-grammy party and the first person he mentioned was miguel, thought that was kinda cool
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:09 (1 month ago) Permalink
a mention of a cool person in the middle of what sounds like a very uncool chat
― flamenco drop (lex pretend), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:10 (1 month ago) Permalink
well it was an old white hippy directing a conversation about current pop music, so yeah
i mean clive was being much more conciliatory but i'm sure he's not exactly jamming swedish house mafia in the crib
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:13 (1 month ago) Permalink
Clive devotes a chapter in his memoir to Taylor Dayne. I read it in Target.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:32 (1 month ago) Permalink
aww clive and kelly clarkson are gonna have a reconciliation over a miguel slow dance
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 18:06 (1 month ago) Permalink
ha
agree w/flopson re: that harlem shake article. it's like... MD promoting their own song? the wool has been pulled over your eyes! It didn't even really get into the real story of corporations making money off of "Harlem Shake" which is not only google as flopson said but also the companies who paid for the ads in expectation of a return.
― The Reverend, Saturday, 6 April 2013 19:10 (1 month ago) Permalink
also I have even more incentive to marry Alfred now
I'll even let you diddle those woman things.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 20:04 (1 month ago) Permalink
i kinda wonder about an alternate universe where "adorn" had been released ten years ago - it would probably have been a double digit week long hot 100 number one, maybe even have had a record breaking stay there.
nah. great song, but probably way too sophisticated and subtle to be that big of a hit. it doesn't have a big undeniable chorus.
― wk, Saturday, 6 April 2013 20:11 (1 month ago) Permalink
I definitely do not rep for the overall tone or conclusions drawn by the harlem shake article, I just loved the granular chronology of events mostly
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:12 (1 month ago) Permalink
love the set up that was like: after discovering social media in the 2013 superbowl half-time show, corporations were ready to exploit the next meme for their advantage... all they needed was for someone to do a quirky dance to a dubstep song & upload it to youtube
― flopson, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:26 (1 month ago) Permalink
they gathered together into corporation headquarters for the corporation meeting
― iatee, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:31 (1 month ago) Permalink
"men...we need a meme"
― iatee, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:32 (1 month ago) Permalink
macklemore commanding the top 2 spots on r&b/hip-hop songs now :((((
― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Friday, 19 April 2013 07:34 (1 month ago) Permalink
round my way a lot of people who like music don't have even bank accounts (tho pre-paid disposable cards are becoming popular).
― zvookster, Friday, 12 October 2012
i see beiber is launching a pre-paid debit card
― rather ugged man (zvookster), Friday, 19 April 2013 14:49 (1 month ago) Permalink
A debeibit card
― gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Friday, 19 April 2013 15:17 (1 month ago) Permalink
those Rush card commercials w/Russell Simmons are on all the time
― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 19 April 2013 15:43 (1 month ago) Permalink
― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Friday, April 19, 2013 3:34 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well culture, we had a good run...
― Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Sunday, 21 April 2013 01:52 (1 month ago) Permalink