wtf is philip philips?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:49 (7 months ago) Permalink
Train are now big on the rock charts
chilling words in any context
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:49 (7 months ago) Permalink
also holy shit SIX Mumford & Sons songs in a row on the rock songs chart, because that was the last big album release so every song is getting bought individually on itunes
Phillip Phillips won American Idol last year
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:50 (7 months ago) Permalink
see that is bullshit with buying albums and the tracks being on a singles track
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:52 (7 months ago) Permalink
*chart
what i'm saying!
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:55 (7 months ago) Permalink
it's one thing that rihanna has the #1 R&B song now, but when her album is released she'll probably take up the whole top 5
you mentioned itunes sales in the other thread shipz - i'm guessing those are discounted albums rather than individual tracks?
apart from that and
economically privileged listeners, who are more likely to be white, are much more likely to purchase digital music
i'd be interested to know why r&b/rap/country etc might not be as digitally-driven...?
― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:59 (7 months ago) Permalink
it's funny, you might've thought before this all happened that iTunes impacting singles charts might mean that new artists and grassroots successes that have been shut out by the radio industry might get a better shot at breaking through. instead, it feels like any song by the biggest stars is stomping out songs people love by less famous artists via the power of name recognition and fanatical fanclub followings.
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:04 (7 months ago) Permalink
Not discounted albums, people buy lots of album tracks individually from popular albums all the time. A hit album is almost guaranteed to have several album tracks enter the Hot 100 on its week of release because of this.
That isn't quite true of country, but white demographics are a lot more likely to have internet in their homes than black/latinos. And even if they do, the white listener is a lot more likely to have spare $$$ to spend on digital music.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:04 (7 months ago) Permalink
i mean if you want to go by the stereotype that country fans are rural/poorer than the same would apply to them too
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink
seems pretty obv
ok...how does that square with the boom in free rap mixtapes?
also, i don't think i realised til now how airplay-driven charts would help songs specifically popular in demographics with no spare $$$ to actually buy them in whatever format.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink
Note that of the top 20-selling songs in the US during the first half of 2012, only two, #16 "Rack City" and #18 "The Motto" reached the top 50 of the r&b chart.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink
what genre of music dominates the US singles charts now?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:09 (7 months ago) Permalink
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I don't think this is as true as one might assume? A lot of well-off suburban country listeners. Or at least country seems to do fairly well on Itunes.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:09 (7 months ago) Permalink
capital-p Pop -- Katy Perry, Rihanna, Gaga, Kelly Clarkson, Pink, One Direction, etc. although this year stuff like Gotye and fun. has mixed things up a bit. (xpost)
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:10 (7 months ago) Permalink
there's also the argument that buying your favorite song on iTunes (as opposed to just listening to it on the radio, streaming it on YouTube now and again, or buying the album) is a generational habit, and so things that skew younger benefit from this -- Taylor, Rihanna etc.
i mean it sucks because a lot of these formats had been fostering new stars and putting interesting songs at #1 lately, but you're never gonna see Miguel top the R&B chart or Eric Church top the country chart again after this
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:11 (7 months ago) Permalink
don't forget Maroon 5
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (7 months ago) Permalink
interesting stuff. i don't have my head entirely around the numbers & methodologies here, but there's something about a "return to monoculture" either in real terms or as a measurement phenomenon.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (7 months ago) Permalink
is the pop domination due to itunes or changing of radio playlists/genre stations changing to top 40 or just one of those things that happens?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (7 months ago) Permalink
It's been happening on radio for a while. It's impossible to break the Rihanna-Goyte-Katy-Perry-Maroon-5 stranglehold on Clear Channel Radio. I mean, I hear "One More Night" every 45 minutes.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:15 (7 months ago) Permalink
but you're never gonna see Miguel top the R&B chart or Eric Church top the country chart again after this
to be blunt about this, it's because, even though Rihanna makes club trance, she "is R&B" (because, you know), and Taylor Swift makes pop dubstep, she "is country" (again, because, you know). right?
in a way it seems like this is a identity/identification/musicalogical problem. almost.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:16 (7 months ago) Permalink
Taylor Swift... makes pop dubstep?
― The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (7 months ago) Permalink
p much
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (7 months ago) Permalink
well, it's because when five Rihanna tracks become available her fans will download them at once from iTunes.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (7 months ago) Permalink
SWIFTSTEP
― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink
What would an ideal modern chart system look like?
― wk, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink
I'll assume you don't want to hear her latest track.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink
"Adorn" and "Springsteen" topping every chart.
http://soundcloud.com/taylorswiftofficial/i-knew-you-were-trouble
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:12 PM Bookmark
Both of those things are happening. Another part of this phenomenon I wanted to get into is how specialized radio stations have been getting pushed off the airwaves. A few years ago another change that happened is how Arbitron, the company that measures radio station ratings (and thus, how much $$$ stations get from advertisers), changed their own system from one in which their sample listeners kept diaries of what they listened to to one in which an electronic device automatically records what radio they listen to. There have been arguments about their sampling methodology underrepresenting minorities and related issues, but the effect of this switch has been black- and latino-focused radio stations plummeting in ratings. A lot have switched formats and this is compounded by the fact that many talk, news, and sports stations have been ditching AM radio for FM, which has traditionally been the domain of music stations due to its higher fidelity. A few years ago, Seattle had three high-powered commercial stations that focused on black music - a rap/r&b station, an "adult rhythmic" station that focused on 80s-2000s dance & r&b hits, and a smooth jazz/adult r&b station. Today only the former is left, and it skews much more towards pop.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:25 (7 months ago) Permalink
lol hell no
― The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:27 (7 months ago) Permalink
this is a identity/identification/musicalogical problem
it has always been this way. R&B is just shorthand for "black", 'twas ever thus
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:29 (7 months ago) Permalink
The adult rhythmic station is now top 40 and the smooth jazz station is now sports, fwiw. KUBE, the r&b/rap station, used to be an unassailable ratings kingpin, but now lags behind both the newly-top 40 Movin 92.5 and the already existing top 40 station Kiss 106, which used to have very mediocre ratings.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:30 (7 months ago) Permalink
xp to Rev: something like this happened in the twin cities too. there was a lone black oriented pop station up and running for quite a few years (B96). interestingly it was a new startup at the time (i need to look up exactly when but it was in the 00s) i could tell that the advertiser base was becoming increasingly reliant on only a few businesses as the years went by. and then one day it was done, changed to a pretty generic 80s-10s pop/rock station, a bit like the JackFM format.
xp idk how common this phenomenon was across black radio nationally but this station had its slice of white club pop: gwen stefani, justin timberlake, lady gaga, and right before the end, kesha.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:31 (7 months ago) Permalink
for the last decade or so, there have been 3 contemporary R&B/rap stations in Baltimore and D.C. that all pretty much play the same things from the top of the R&B/Hip Hop Songs chart. in the last year, one of the D.C. stations began dropping Ellie Goulding and Katy Perry and Gotye and Flo Rida into their playlist. and they're the only R&B station i've heard Rihanna's now-#1 R&B hit "Diamonds" on.
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:31 (7 months ago) Permalink
xp to myself: er when i say "lone" that's not quite true, there's been a lower-powered black community radio station, KMOJ, on the air here for years. this was the only black radio station with broadcasting reach over the entire metro.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:33 (7 months ago) Permalink
Until now, only country stations contributed to the Hot Country Songs chart, or R&B/hip-hop stations to Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs; the same held true for Latin and rock. The new methodology, which will utilize the Hot 100's formula of incorporating airplay from more than 1,200 stations of all genres monitored by BDS, will reward crossover titles receiving airplay on a multitude of formats. With digital download sales and streaming data measuring popularity on the most inclusive scale possible, it is only just the radio portion of Billboard chart calculations that includes airplay from the entire spectrum of monitored formats.
UGH.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:33 (7 months ago) Permalink
I mean not what kind of music would make up the charts, but how would a properly designed modern chart system function?
I'm trying to wrap my head around how all of this works, but the idea that there was this beneficial feedback loop between radio and what the audience was buying is interesting and something I've never really considered. It makes sense that a chart that allows for some input from tastemakers would work better than one that strictly tracks sales. I always thought of that feedback loop in a negative way, as a pointless echo chamber, and a decade ago I would have thought that something like an itunes chart would end up being more diverse and interesting than a radio-driven chart, but obviously that's not the case.
So I'm kind of wondering what other kinds of gatekeeper or tastemaking factors could be input into the equation besides radio? Like in theory it seems like you could develop some kind of interesting combination of online sales and listening metrics (itunes, spotify listens, lastfm) and then add in something like hype machine data for the gatekeeper input. But that wouldn't really work in the same way and wouldn't result in the kind of beneficial feedback loop that existed between radio and retail.
― wk, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:33 (7 months ago) Permalink
Boston's R&B/hip-hop station has been a ClearChannel property for years and has therefore already been on this bandwagon; the interesting thing happening here is the dismantling of all of the alternative stations
xp: goole I was gonna ask if KMOJ disappeared after this summer!
― The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:34 (7 months ago) Permalink
i think that the genre charts should have remained dictated by airplay on only stations of particular formats. the Hot 100 and various Digital Sales charts already did a good job of showing what was selling even if it wasn't getting airplay. MAYBE the genre charts could have digital sales factored in, but at a much lower rate than they are now, where it just feels like this trump card that overrides all other factors.
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:35 (7 months ago) Permalink
if you look at Billboard's Radio Songs chart, which is all airplay from all formats, you can see that there's clearly just way more pop stations than anything else right now. the 10th biggest pop song on it often outperforms whatever the biggest song on urban radio is.
DJP: i can't/don't listen to it at all really but it's still around afaik: http://kmojfm.com/
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:38 (7 months ago) Permalink
I share most of the above concerns about these changes. But is it possible this move could actually prove a good thing by allowing stations to rely less on the charts? Stations still ultimately have agency over what they play, so I don't think urban stations are going to start playing Rihanna just because her songs appear on their charts as a technicality, and if these charts really do become as messy and random as we're predicting here, isn't it possible that could make them such unreliable barometers that stations begin ignoring them?
― Evan R, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:39 (7 months ago) Permalink
I don't know how you break the interdependence of stations and the charts tbh
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:41 (7 months ago) Permalink
that's a nice thought, but generally anytime some shit happens that makes me hope "maybe this is the breaking point and from here on out things will get more regionalized and freeform and open-minded!" i'm wrong. (xpost)
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:42 (7 months ago) Permalink
Rev, re limited American radio options, this started back last century, blame Clinton for signing the Gingrich pushed Telecommunications Act of 1996; and radio programmer Lee Abrams homogenized commercial rock radio back in the late 1970s
http://futureofmusic.org/article/research/radio-deregulation-has-it-served-musicians-and-citizens
The radical deregulation of the radio industry allowed by the Telecommunications Act of 1996 has not benefited the public or musicians. Instead, it has led to less competition, fewer viewpoints, and less diversity in programming. Deregulation has damaged radio as a public resource.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:43 (7 months ago) Permalink
I was hoping no one was going to bring up the Act.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:43 (7 months ago) Permalink
"Harlem Shake" has finally dropped from the #1 spot after five weeks. "Thrift Shop" would have been at #1 for eleven weeks without the recent rejiggering.
― skip, Friday, 29 March 2013 13:20 (1 month ago) Permalink
out of the frying pan
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 29 March 2013 16:39 (1 month ago) Permalink
like it or not, at least thrift shop "feels" like a number one record
― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 29 March 2013 17:21 (1 month ago) Permalink
amazing dissection of how "Harlem Shake" happened: http://qz.com/67991/you-didnt-make-the-harlem-shake-go-viral-corporations-did/
― staten island on my pinky, queens on my (some dude), Friday, 29 March 2013 22:06 (1 month ago) Permalink
That's a cool article - amongst other things underlines how every viral hit is due to network effects. You either hit a hub or you don't.
― Newgod.css (seandalai), Saturday, 30 March 2013 00:48 (1 month ago) Permalink
kinda lol but mostly sad: http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/1556367/macklemore-ryan-lewis-thrift-shop-sets-record-on-hot-rbhip-hop-songs-chart
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 11:07 (1 month ago) Permalink
read every instance of "while" in that article as "white"
― how's life, Saturday, 6 April 2013 11:35 (1 month ago) Permalink
meanwhile "adorn" RETURNS to #1 on r&b/hip-hop airplay after many weeks of other songs being #1. this would have been its... 23rd week at #1??
― teledyldonix, Saturday, 6 April 2013 14:08 (1 month ago) Permalink
oh jk just saw that was mentioned on the miguel thread lol
― teledyldonix, Saturday, 6 April 2013 14:33 (1 month ago) Permalink
it's ok, teddy dominatrix
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 15:28 (1 month ago) Permalink
i kinda wonder about an alternate universe where "adorn" had been released ten years ago - it would probably have been a double digit week long hot 100 number one, maybe even have had a record breaking stay there.
but in 2012/13 a 23 week long r&b airplay number one only gets you a top 20 hot 100 hit. depressing.
― prolego, Saturday, 6 April 2013 16:23 (1 month ago) Permalink
yeah i dunno... old-fashioned elements of the song aside, "Adorn" feels very much of its time, as does Miguel's whole career. and he probably wouldn't have an Usher-type profile in any era. although it does have some things in common with Mario's "Let Me Love You," which was #1 for nine weeks in '05, so you may have a point.
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:03 (1 month ago) Permalink
It doesn't matter, for if I get gay-married, "Adorn" will be the First Dance.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:08 (1 month ago) Permalink
actually found that article pretty weak, like he doesn't rly deliver on the nefarious corporate force pulling the strings he's implying w/ that tone & intro. like he counts Mad Decent & two internet media ones as the corporations responsible for making harlem shake happen... MD released the single & the other two are only implicated because, like, someone at College Humour posted it. (Thousands of “Harlem Shake” videos were uploaded during the week of Feb. 11, many of them from businesses with something to sell. many! oh, no!) and like, hey guess what guys, Youtube is a corporation too! and they're owned by Google, who are really BIG. and the video was posted on Youtube.
also this image linked within the article (although too small to read the text) doesn't seem to support his thesis at all. does make me wonder how they figure out if you're an african american twitter user using harlem shake in its original context tho
― flopson, Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:08 (1 month ago) Permalink
clive davis was on bill maher a few weeks ago doing book promotion and they were essentially talking about how EDM is crap (in so many words) and clive was talking about highlighting REAL MUSICIANS at his pre-grammy party and the first person he mentioned was miguel, thought that was kinda cool
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:09 (1 month ago) Permalink
a mention of a cool person in the middle of what sounds like a very uncool chat
― flamenco drop (lex pretend), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:10 (1 month ago) Permalink
well it was an old white hippy directing a conversation about current pop music, so yeah
i mean clive was being much more conciliatory but i'm sure he's not exactly jamming swedish house mafia in the crib
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:13 (1 month ago) Permalink
Clive devotes a chapter in his memoir to Taylor Dayne. I read it in Target.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:32 (1 month ago) Permalink
aww clive and kelly clarkson are gonna have a reconciliation over a miguel slow dance
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 18:06 (1 month ago) Permalink
ha
agree w/flopson re: that harlem shake article. it's like... MD promoting their own song? the wool has been pulled over your eyes! It didn't even really get into the real story of corporations making money off of "Harlem Shake" which is not only google as flopson said but also the companies who paid for the ads in expectation of a return.
― The Reverend, Saturday, 6 April 2013 19:10 (1 month ago) Permalink
also I have even more incentive to marry Alfred now
I'll even let you diddle those woman things.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 20:04 (1 month ago) Permalink
nah. great song, but probably way too sophisticated and subtle to be that big of a hit. it doesn't have a big undeniable chorus.
― wk, Saturday, 6 April 2013 20:11 (1 month ago) Permalink
I definitely do not rep for the overall tone or conclusions drawn by the harlem shake article, I just loved the granular chronology of events mostly
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:12 (1 month ago) Permalink
love the set up that was like: after discovering social media in the 2013 superbowl half-time show, corporations were ready to exploit the next meme for their advantage... all they needed was for someone to do a quirky dance to a dubstep song & upload it to youtube
― flopson, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:26 (1 month ago) Permalink
they gathered together into corporation headquarters for the corporation meeting
― iatee, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:31 (1 month ago) Permalink
"men...we need a meme"
― iatee, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:32 (1 month ago) Permalink
macklemore commanding the top 2 spots on r&b/hip-hop songs now :((((
― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Friday, 19 April 2013 07:34 (1 month ago) Permalink
round my way a lot of people who like music don't have even bank accounts (tho pre-paid disposable cards are becoming popular).
― zvookster, Friday, 12 October 2012
i see beiber is launching a pre-paid debit card
― rather ugged man (zvookster), Friday, 19 April 2013 14:49 (1 month ago) Permalink
A debeibit card
― gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Friday, 19 April 2013 15:17 (1 month ago) Permalink
those Rush card commercials w/Russell Simmons are on all the time
― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 19 April 2013 15:43 (1 month ago) Permalink
― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Friday, April 19, 2013 3:34 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well culture, we had a good run...
― Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Sunday, 21 April 2013 01:52 (1 month ago) Permalink