Oh and Psy has been placed on top of the rap charts, because obv "Gangnam Style" is what's hot in the streets right now.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:31 (8 months ago) Permalink
If you have any interest in this phenomenon, please read the Molanphy articles.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:33 (8 months ago) Permalink
another good reason to hate apple
― We demand justice: who murdered Chanel? (Matt P), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:34 (8 months ago) Permalink
http://billwerde.tumblr.com/post/33381394622/chart-attacks-pt-71-or-i-really-like-brandy-too
― Andy K, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:37 (8 months ago) Permalink
Are there charts for most genres? And did they change too?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:40 (8 months ago) Permalink
yeah the charts are bullshit but they have real ramifications in terms of what gets bankrolled
so does a list of 'what music is actually being bought'
― iatee, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:41 (8 months ago) Permalink
This is really interesting, Rev. We've never really had high-stakes multiple charts and the US system has always seemed incredibly complicated to me, but then we're a million times smaller so it's a different proposition, I guess.
― emil.y, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:43 (8 months ago) Permalink
well, they used to be lists of what music is actually being played and requested on the radio, too. but however they combine these different statistics always seems to heavily favor sales over overplay. (xpost)
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:44 (8 months ago) Permalink
I for one never liked the idea of airplay contributing to the charts here in the UK and I'm glad it remains sales based.
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:44 (8 months ago) Permalink
but I can see why it works better in the USA. You only ever got top 40 or oldies radio here and that was it until digital radio and 1extra.
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:45 (8 months ago) Permalink
Chris Mol@nphy wrote this column in ship's column last year:
All I'll add to the exhaustive data you offer is a hobby-horse I've been riding for a couple of years now: the need for Billboard to finally add digital-sales data to the R&B/Hip-Hop chart.
They've been resisting for years, on the (implied, not overtly stated) premise that it would ruin the character of a chart that has a long history with black-owned and oriented retailers. But with that segment (along with all brick-and-mortar music retail) at death's door anyway, the sales portion of Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs has been near-nonexistent for years, making it essentially a radio chart a la the deadly, predigital Hot 100 of 2000–05.
That's led to a problem where there's no longer a radio programmer-to-consumer-back-to-programmer feedback loop that makes for great charts. I'm sure there's a one-way influence from radio to the teen urban-music buyer who then downloads a Trey Songz MP3. But with that sale not reflected on the R&B/Hip-Hop chart, the loop ends there; programmers aren't given clear enough signals of how to reflect their most avid audience members' tastes (especially young audience).
In my ideal fantasy world, you'd be able to segment iTunes/AmazonMP3 song sales to pockets of the country that have large black populations or high urban-radio listenership, but that's probably impossible, or at least fraught. But at the very least, I think it'd be trivial for Billboard to set up a rule whereby a song eligible for R&B/Hip-Hop Songs would have to hit some kind of urban-radio threshold before their iTunes sales would count toward the chart.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:46 (8 months ago) Permalink
here's an explanation of the changes, which affect all genre charts:
http://www.billboard.com/news#/news/taylor-swift-rihanna-psy-buoyed-by-billboard-1007978552.story
the rock charts are much less affected by this than R&B or country -- for instance this week fun.'s "Some Nights" went back to #1 after falling to #8, because it had started to run its course on radio but is still selling strong on iTunes.
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:47 (8 months ago) Permalink
ok lol i spoke to soon -- Philip Philips and Train are now big on the rock charts
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:48 (8 months ago) Permalink
wtf is philip philips?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:49 (8 months ago) Permalink
Train are now big on the rock charts
chilling words in any context
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:49 (8 months ago) Permalink
also holy shit SIX Mumford & Sons songs in a row on the rock songs chart, because that was the last big album release so every song is getting bought individually on itunes
Phillip Phillips won American Idol last year
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:50 (8 months ago) Permalink
see that is bullshit with buying albums and the tracks being on a singles track
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:52 (8 months ago) Permalink
*chart
what i'm saying!
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:55 (8 months ago) Permalink
it's one thing that rihanna has the #1 R&B song now, but when her album is released she'll probably take up the whole top 5
you mentioned itunes sales in the other thread shipz - i'm guessing those are discounted albums rather than individual tracks?
apart from that and
economically privileged listeners, who are more likely to be white, are much more likely to purchase digital music
i'd be interested to know why r&b/rap/country etc might not be as digitally-driven...?
― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:59 (8 months ago) Permalink
it's funny, you might've thought before this all happened that iTunes impacting singles charts might mean that new artists and grassroots successes that have been shut out by the radio industry might get a better shot at breaking through. instead, it feels like any song by the biggest stars is stomping out songs people love by less famous artists via the power of name recognition and fanatical fanclub followings.
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:04 (8 months ago) Permalink
Not discounted albums, people buy lots of album tracks individually from popular albums all the time. A hit album is almost guaranteed to have several album tracks enter the Hot 100 on its week of release because of this.
That isn't quite true of country, but white demographics are a lot more likely to have internet in their homes than black/latinos. And even if they do, the white listener is a lot more likely to have spare $$$ to spend on digital music.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:04 (8 months ago) Permalink
i mean if you want to go by the stereotype that country fans are rural/poorer than the same would apply to them too
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (8 months ago) Permalink
seems pretty obv
ok...how does that square with the boom in free rap mixtapes?
also, i don't think i realised til now how airplay-driven charts would help songs specifically popular in demographics with no spare $$$ to actually buy them in whatever format.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (8 months ago) Permalink
Note that of the top 20-selling songs in the US during the first half of 2012, only two, #16 "Rack City" and #18 "The Motto" reached the top 50 of the r&b chart.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (8 months ago) Permalink
what genre of music dominates the US singles charts now?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:09 (8 months ago) Permalink
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I don't think this is as true as one might assume? A lot of well-off suburban country listeners. Or at least country seems to do fairly well on Itunes.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:09 (8 months ago) Permalink
capital-p Pop -- Katy Perry, Rihanna, Gaga, Kelly Clarkson, Pink, One Direction, etc. although this year stuff like Gotye and fun. has mixed things up a bit. (xpost)
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:10 (8 months ago) Permalink
there's also the argument that buying your favorite song on iTunes (as opposed to just listening to it on the radio, streaming it on YouTube now and again, or buying the album) is a generational habit, and so things that skew younger benefit from this -- Taylor, Rihanna etc.
i mean it sucks because a lot of these formats had been fostering new stars and putting interesting songs at #1 lately, but you're never gonna see Miguel top the R&B chart or Eric Church top the country chart again after this
― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:11 (8 months ago) Permalink
don't forget Maroon 5
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (8 months ago) Permalink
interesting stuff. i don't have my head entirely around the numbers & methodologies here, but there's something about a "return to monoculture" either in real terms or as a measurement phenomenon.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (8 months ago) Permalink
is the pop domination due to itunes or changing of radio playlists/genre stations changing to top 40 or just one of those things that happens?
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (8 months ago) Permalink
It's been happening on radio for a while. It's impossible to break the Rihanna-Goyte-Katy-Perry-Maroon-5 stranglehold on Clear Channel Radio. I mean, I hear "One More Night" every 45 minutes.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:15 (8 months ago) Permalink
but you're never gonna see Miguel top the R&B chart or Eric Church top the country chart again after this
to be blunt about this, it's because, even though Rihanna makes club trance, she "is R&B" (because, you know), and Taylor Swift makes pop dubstep, she "is country" (again, because, you know). right?
in a way it seems like this is a identity/identification/musicalogical problem. almost.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:16 (8 months ago) Permalink
Taylor Swift... makes pop dubstep?
― The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (8 months ago) Permalink
p much
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (8 months ago) Permalink
well, it's because when five Rihanna tracks become available her fans will download them at once from iTunes.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (8 months ago) Permalink
SWIFTSTEP
― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (8 months ago) Permalink
What would an ideal modern chart system look like?
― wk, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (8 months ago) Permalink
I'll assume you don't want to hear her latest track.
― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (8 months ago) Permalink
"Adorn" and "Springsteen" topping every chart.
http://soundcloud.com/taylorswiftofficial/i-knew-you-were-trouble
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:12 PM Bookmark
Both of those things are happening. Another part of this phenomenon I wanted to get into is how specialized radio stations have been getting pushed off the airwaves. A few years ago another change that happened is how Arbitron, the company that measures radio station ratings (and thus, how much $$$ stations get from advertisers), changed their own system from one in which their sample listeners kept diaries of what they listened to to one in which an electronic device automatically records what radio they listen to. There have been arguments about their sampling methodology underrepresenting minorities and related issues, but the effect of this switch has been black- and latino-focused radio stations plummeting in ratings. A lot have switched formats and this is compounded by the fact that many talk, news, and sports stations have been ditching AM radio for FM, which has traditionally been the domain of music stations due to its higher fidelity. A few years ago, Seattle had three high-powered commercial stations that focused on black music - a rap/r&b station, an "adult rhythmic" station that focused on 80s-2000s dance & r&b hits, and a smooth jazz/adult r&b station. Today only the former is left, and it skews much more towards pop.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:25 (8 months ago) Permalink
lol hell no
― The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:27 (8 months ago) Permalink
this is a identity/identification/musicalogical problem
it has always been this way. R&B is just shorthand for "black", 'twas ever thus
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:29 (8 months ago) Permalink
The adult rhythmic station is now top 40 and the smooth jazz station is now sports, fwiw. KUBE, the r&b/rap station, used to be an unassailable ratings kingpin, but now lags behind both the newly-top 40 Movin 92.5 and the already existing top 40 station Kiss 106, which used to have very mediocre ratings.
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:30 (8 months ago) Permalink
xp to Rev: something like this happened in the twin cities too. there was a lone black oriented pop station up and running for quite a few years (B96). interestingly it was a new startup at the time (i need to look up exactly when but it was in the 00s) i could tell that the advertiser base was becoming increasingly reliant on only a few businesses as the years went by. and then one day it was done, changed to a pretty generic 80s-10s pop/rock station, a bit like the JackFM format.
xp idk how common this phenomenon was across black radio nationally but this station had its slice of white club pop: gwen stefani, justin timberlake, lady gaga, and right before the end, kesha.
― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:31 (8 months ago) Permalink
kinda lol but mostly sad: http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/1556367/macklemore-ryan-lewis-thrift-shop-sets-record-on-hot-rbhip-hop-songs-chart
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 11:07 (2 months ago) Permalink
read every instance of "while" in that article as "white"
― how's life, Saturday, 6 April 2013 11:35 (2 months ago) Permalink
meanwhile "adorn" RETURNS to #1 on r&b/hip-hop airplay after many weeks of other songs being #1. this would have been its... 23rd week at #1??
― teledyldonix, Saturday, 6 April 2013 14:08 (2 months ago) Permalink
oh jk just saw that was mentioned on the miguel thread lol
― teledyldonix, Saturday, 6 April 2013 14:33 (2 months ago) Permalink
it's ok, teddy dominatrix
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 15:28 (2 months ago) Permalink
i kinda wonder about an alternate universe where "adorn" had been released ten years ago - it would probably have been a double digit week long hot 100 number one, maybe even have had a record breaking stay there.
but in 2012/13 a 23 week long r&b airplay number one only gets you a top 20 hot 100 hit. depressing.
― prolego, Saturday, 6 April 2013 16:23 (2 months ago) Permalink
yeah i dunno... old-fashioned elements of the song aside, "Adorn" feels very much of its time, as does Miguel's whole career. and he probably wouldn't have an Usher-type profile in any era. although it does have some things in common with Mario's "Let Me Love You," which was #1 for nine weeks in '05, so you may have a point.
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:03 (2 months ago) Permalink
It doesn't matter, for if I get gay-married, "Adorn" will be the First Dance.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:08 (2 months ago) Permalink
actually found that article pretty weak, like he doesn't rly deliver on the nefarious corporate force pulling the strings he's implying w/ that tone & intro. like he counts Mad Decent & two internet media ones as the corporations responsible for making harlem shake happen... MD released the single & the other two are only implicated because, like, someone at College Humour posted it. (Thousands of “Harlem Shake” videos were uploaded during the week of Feb. 11, many of them from businesses with something to sell. many! oh, no!) and like, hey guess what guys, Youtube is a corporation too! and they're owned by Google, who are really BIG. and the video was posted on Youtube.
also this image linked within the article (although too small to read the text) doesn't seem to support his thesis at all. does make me wonder how they figure out if you're an african american twitter user using harlem shake in its original context tho
― flopson, Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:08 (2 months ago) Permalink
clive davis was on bill maher a few weeks ago doing book promotion and they were essentially talking about how EDM is crap (in so many words) and clive was talking about highlighting REAL MUSICIANS at his pre-grammy party and the first person he mentioned was miguel, thought that was kinda cool
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:09 (2 months ago) Permalink
a mention of a cool person in the middle of what sounds like a very uncool chat
― flamenco drop (lex pretend), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:10 (2 months ago) Permalink
well it was an old white hippy directing a conversation about current pop music, so yeah
i mean clive was being much more conciliatory but i'm sure he's not exactly jamming swedish house mafia in the crib
― J0rdan S., Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:13 (2 months ago) Permalink
Clive devotes a chapter in his memoir to Taylor Dayne. I read it in Target.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:32 (2 months ago) Permalink
aww clive and kelly clarkson are gonna have a reconciliation over a miguel slow dance
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 18:06 (2 months ago) Permalink
ha
agree w/flopson re: that harlem shake article. it's like... MD promoting their own song? the wool has been pulled over your eyes! It didn't even really get into the real story of corporations making money off of "Harlem Shake" which is not only google as flopson said but also the companies who paid for the ads in expectation of a return.
― The Reverend, Saturday, 6 April 2013 19:10 (2 months ago) Permalink
also I have even more incentive to marry Alfred now
I'll even let you diddle those woman things.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 20:04 (2 months ago) Permalink
nah. great song, but probably way too sophisticated and subtle to be that big of a hit. it doesn't have a big undeniable chorus.
― wk, Saturday, 6 April 2013 20:11 (2 months ago) Permalink
I definitely do not rep for the overall tone or conclusions drawn by the harlem shake article, I just loved the granular chronology of events mostly
― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:12 (2 months ago) Permalink
love the set up that was like: after discovering social media in the 2013 superbowl half-time show, corporations were ready to exploit the next meme for their advantage... all they needed was for someone to do a quirky dance to a dubstep song & upload it to youtube
― flopson, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:26 (2 months ago) Permalink
they gathered together into corporation headquarters for the corporation meeting
― iatee, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:31 (2 months ago) Permalink
"men...we need a meme"
― iatee, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:32 (2 months ago) Permalink
macklemore commanding the top 2 spots on r&b/hip-hop songs now :((((
― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Friday, 19 April 2013 07:34 (2 months ago) Permalink
round my way a lot of people who like music don't have even bank accounts (tho pre-paid disposable cards are becoming popular).
― zvookster, Friday, 12 October 2012
i see beiber is launching a pre-paid debit card
― rather ugged man (zvookster), Friday, 19 April 2013 14:49 (2 months ago) Permalink
A debeibit card
― gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Friday, 19 April 2013 15:17 (2 months ago) Permalink
those Rush card commercials w/Russell Simmons are on all the time
― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 19 April 2013 15:43 (2 months ago) Permalink
― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Friday, April 19, 2013 3:34 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well culture, we had a good run...
― Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Sunday, 21 April 2013 01:52 (1 month ago) Permalink
so these both exist:
Wale - Bad (Remix) [feat. Rihanna]Blake Shelton - Boys 'Round Here (Celebrity Mix) [feat. Jason Aldean, Luke Bryan, Ronnie Dunn, Miranda Lambert, Brad Paisley, Reba, Josh Turner, Keith Urban & Hank Williams, Jr.]
i don't think it's a coincidence that they're both remixes to songs that are owning the r&b/country airplay charts but having trouble scaling the corresponding main billboard charts. in the case of "bad", it's been #1 on airplay for weeks, but had only barely scraped the top 10 on the "real" chart, and even now with the remix it's only gone to #5 (behind 2 macklemore songs and a few songs that are largely pop crossover). meanwhile "boys 'round here" is at #2 on airplay, likely to reach #1 next week (so i'm guessing that the remix's release was timed very deliberately), and has been sitting at #2 on the "real" chart for ages behind florida georgia line's "cruise" (which ITSELF is being assisted by its chr-crossover-catalyzing remix with nelly).
i used to think that this trend of releasing desperate remixes to temporarily boost chart positions of songs (which was quite a thing on the pop charts for a time, peaking in 2011 with "till the world ends", "s&m" and "last friday night") had died out, but now it appears to have found a home within the genres being screwed over by billboard's new rules. and man, these remixes are pretty desperate. the original version of "boys 'round here" already features 'pistol annies & friends', meaning pistol annies and the songwriters and producers, but the feature is basically limited to these people singing one phrase. in the "celebrity mix", most of the 'featured' artists are literally limited to one syllable ("red"), and yet all their names are written in full in the track name on itunes, probably so more people will find the song in an itunes search.
weird stuff.
― dyl, Friday, 14 June 2013 22:16 (5 days ago) Permalink
Wait a minute. "Boys 'Round Here" keeps climbing on the Hot 100.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2013 22:19 (5 days ago) Permalink
(terrible song imo)
I think he means it climbed to a new peak after the remix. Big missed opportunity not putting Cali Swag District on the rmx imo.
― some dude, Friday, 14 June 2013 22:22 (5 days ago) Permalink
lmao totally
― dyl, Friday, 14 June 2013 22:23 (5 days ago) Permalink
Chris Brown missed an opportunity
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2013 22:23 (5 days ago) Permalink
"boys round here" and "cruise" are both super obnoxious
― ttyih boi (crüt), Friday, 14 June 2013 22:24 (5 days ago) Permalink
but yes, i meant that it was having trouble climbing farther before the remix, which normally wouldn't matter (its hot 100 placement was one of blake shelton's highest) if not for the fact that it was basically parked at #2 on the country charts. idk maybe i am reading too much into this.
― dyl, Friday, 14 June 2013 22:25 (5 days ago) Permalink
and also by "corresponding main billboard charts" i meant hot r&b/hip-hop song and hot country songs. sorry i wasn't v clear ;_;
― dyl, Friday, 14 June 2013 22:27 (5 days ago) Permalink
Blake Shelton's tabloid/glossy profile never higher too.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2013 22:27 (5 days ago) Permalink
yes, i would agree that he is more famous than ever
― dyl, Friday, 14 June 2013 22:28 (5 days ago) Permalink
I'm not sure how adding a bunch of country stars helps Sheldon cross over like adding Rihanna to the Wale song does? I mean, I think Aldean's the only one of those people I've ever heard on top 40.
― The Reverend, Friday, 14 June 2013 23:45 (5 days ago) Permalink
putting a star-studded non-album remix on iTunes as a single = sales-driven chart spike
― some dude, Saturday, 15 June 2013 01:03 (4 days ago) Permalink
i.e. it's a way of improving Hot 100 without pop radio support, not a way of shoring up pop radio support
― some dude, Saturday, 15 June 2013 01:04 (4 days ago) Permalink
Ah, in that case I think there's more to Wale putting RiRi on his song than a desperado Katy Perry f/ Missy move.
― The Reverend, Saturday, 15 June 2013 01:53 (4 days ago) Permalink
yeah it's "omigod omigod omigod rihanna knows who i am"
― some dude, Saturday, 15 June 2013 02:01 (4 days ago) Permalink
oh i think they liked me when they heard me on the other wayso its only right that i hit you with the riri riri
― r|t|c, Saturday, 15 June 2013 09:25 (4 days ago) Permalink
that remix is pure brand synergy at work, rihanna's managers probably put guns to people's heads demanding she bumrush that shit to keep the mythos cash rolling in
― r|t|c, Saturday, 15 June 2013 09:31 (4 days ago) Permalink