TS John Lennon vs. Lou Reed: Who Is The Better Rhythm Guitar Player?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (71 of them)

I would imagine the author of "Revolution In The Head" had access to multiple takes of songs from the Abbey Road days. He makes this claim a couple of times throughout the book. I don't agree with him based on officially released output. Just pointing it out.

Chilton is a deadly rhythm guitar player! Listen to Radio City in it's entirety. O My Soul, Way Out West. Absofuckinglutely brilliant guitar playing.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Lennon's playing is to my ears kind of anonymous

i'd say, au contraire, that lennon's playing is so ingrained into the song itself that it's hard to actually hear it as rhythm guitar playing. it just sounds like part of the songwriting. which is one of the things i like best about the beatles; they knew how to arrange songs and play their parts to maximum effect.

i love the deliberate acoustic guitar rhythms that shape the best songs on all those mid-period albums ("no reply" is a good example). my impression is that it's sometimes lennon and sometimes mccartney (and maybe sometimes harrison, too), so it's to know who to give the credit to. but there's some genius rhythm playing in there.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:07 (eighteen years ago) link

John. Lou's pretty typical of himself, y'know?
That pretty well sums it up. Although FOGGY NOTION is a pretty good argument.

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Tons of stuff on the Velvet Underground albums are good arguments.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:12 (eighteen years ago) link

for which side?

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:16 (eighteen years ago) link

There's tons of good rhythm guitar on VU albums.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Of course there is. And I like the VVU wau more than the Beatles. But Lou's playing on its own gets to be kinda dull after awhile.

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:25 (eighteen years ago) link

"VVU" m.

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Fact checking cuz OTM. I think another factor is the huge shadow cast by the Beatles - Lennon's playing may sound "anonymous" because so many people ended up playing like him afterwards. I'm not saying he was some sort of innovative genius on the instrument, but there are a number of truly excellent moments. Like all the Beatles, Lennon rarely did more than the song required, although I'll concede he often did somewhat less. But "No Reply" does indeed seal the deal, as does the rest of the good stuff on Beatles For Sale, and most everything on A Hard Day's Night. By "Help" he's really starting to get overshadowed by George Harrison's leads, and I feel like I don't really hear Lennon as a guitarist again until the White Album. But it's pretty much all good. If I stumble on a bad Lennon rhythm guitar piece while listening through the catalog sometime, I'll come back to this thread...

― Doctor Casino, Saturday, 29 October 2005 02:53 (eighteen years ago) link

"I feel like I don't really hear Lennon as a guitarist again until the White Album"

"Getting Better" is a good one.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 29 October 2005 05:18 (eighteen years ago) link

And the "Sgt. Pepper" theme.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 29 October 2005 05:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Not to put them down, far from it, but if we do the thought experiment and consider the alternate universe where one of the guitar players named by edd had been played on the Beatles records instead of John, would it really have worked? It just doesn't seem that there would have been room for, say, Nile Rodgers to do his thing.

― k/l (Ken L), Saturday, 29 October 2005 20:21 (eighteen years ago) link

but lou reed's infamously crap at guitar. whatever's good on the records is sterling

Rarely have I read such piffle in my life:

Ostrich guitar on "The Velvet Underground and Nico" = LOU
Lead guitar on "The Gift" = LOU
Lead guitar on "I Heard Her Call My Name" = LOU
All of the really weird and imaginative guitar playing on "Sister Ray" = LOU
Lead rhythm guitar on "What Goes On" (Live 1969 version) = LOU (tho Sterl's there as well)
Lead rhythm guitar on "We're Gonna Have a Real Good Time Together" (Live 1969 version) = LOU
Rhythm guitar on "Foggy Notion" = LOU

... etc etc etc

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 10:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Lead rhythm guitar on "What Goes On" (Live 1969 version) = LOU
Rhythm guitar on "Foggy Notion" = LOU

So. That settles it then, right?

Is there a TS: Mo Tucker vs. Ringo thread?

― A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:21 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think so, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Has it ever been verified somewhere that it is Lou who plays the lead on "I Heard Her Call My Name?" People always say that it is, but then I seem to recall that Sterling did the solo when they did it live in that reunion tour video.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Has it ever been verified somewhere that it is Lou who plays the lead on "I Heard Her Call My Name?"

That is absolutely 100% Lou Reed - nobody else can play the guitar simultaneously that badly and that brilliantly. Everybody else was well pissed off with Lou on that for track for sneaking back into the studio and mixing the lead guitar 10 times louder than everything else on the track - which I don't see Lou doing if it was Sterling Morrison on lead guitar, do you? Sterl's lead work is very distinctive also of course - see "Foggy Notion"!

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:45 (eighteen years ago) link

It is Lou on IHHCMN. Sterling's tone is so much cleaner.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:46 (eighteen years ago) link

And, of course, by the time of the reunion tour Lou couldn't or wouldn't get it together to play it properly.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Sterling used fuzzboxes, too, Alfred.

I remember something about Lou mixing the guitars way high, but I didn't know it was specifically to do with that track.

x-post: Lou played solos on the reunion tour. That's him on "Hey Mr. Rain."

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:51 (eighteen years ago) link

Here is what happened when I discussed "I Heard Her Call My Name" with Mr. Alex Chilton

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:54 (eighteen years ago) link

By the way, Sterling Morrison was great rhythm guitar player too (two in one band!) - listen particularly to "The Gift" (positively funky!) and the Live 1969 "What Goes On" (Sterl's is the lighter spikier guitar)

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:57 (eighteen years ago) link

It would be cool to know for sure who played which parts on those records.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link

I think they both had different styles but also the tone of the guitar is different - e.g., on "Live 1969", Lou has a heavier blundering sound - plus Sterl's rhythm playing is very precise and sharp in comparison to Lou's thrashing around. Sterling's soloing is distinctive, it's all over "Loaded". Tho "Loaded" is problematic because Doug Yule's playing guitar on it too.

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:15 (eighteen years ago) link

At first I thought you meant problematic because you had a beef with Doug Yule playing guitar, but now I think you mean it's problematic to know who played what.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 20:03 (eighteen years ago) link

seven months pass...

I'd have to say John Wicks (from UK bands The Records and Kursaal Flyers) is a better rythm guitarist than John Lennon or Lou Reed. English guys seem to have an inherited feel for rythm.

― David Duran, Friday, 2 June 2006 00:37 (seventeen years ago) link

"English people got natural rhythm" is one I haven't heard before.

― Keywords: revenge, knife, granddaughter, demonic-possession, rock-star, eel (Aus, Friday, 2 June 2006 00:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Gotta go with Lou, though it pains me to pick one, based alot on a famous bootleg of What Goes On from a live show where it's Lou's guitar only for some reason, boot called something like Guitar Tape...I downloaded it free once from a VU site, it is MINDBLOWING, never heard anything remotely like it

― douglas eklund (skolle), Friday, 2 June 2006 01:00 (seventeen years ago) link

four years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGC3p5ASZus&feature=related

― Bali Eiffel Tower Hai (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 17 August 2010 03:38 (thirteen years ago) link

three years pass...

Sugar plum fairy, sugar plum fairy

― The Cantor Dust Brothers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 25 December 2013 22:01 (ten years ago) link

Your Alex Chilton link doesn't work anymore

― curmudgeon, Thursday, 26 December 2013 21:43 (ten years ago) link

Really? Hold on.

― Can One Hear the Shape of a Ron Decline Bottle? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 December 2013 21:58 (ten years ago) link

Here is what happened when I discussed "I Heard Her Call My Name" with Mr. Alex Chilton

― Can One Hear the Shape of a Ron Decline Bottle? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 December 2013 22:06 (ten years ago) link

I'd have to say John Wicks (from UK bands The Records and Kursaal Flyers) is a better rythm guitarist than John Lennon or Lou Reed. English guys seem to have an inherited feel for rythm.
― David Duran, Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:37 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"English people got natural rhythm" is one I haven't heard before.
― Keywords: revenge, knife, granddaughter, demonic-possession, rock-star, eel (Aus, Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:42 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is a friggin hilarious exchange.

― Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Friday, 27 December 2013 03:21 (ten years ago) link

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.