Dub / Reggae: An Idiot's Guide

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spend the money on reggae records - you won't regret it. live concerts are a nice way to see your heroes, but for a music which is all about skilful production and beautiful voices, live music venues don't really cut it. i think selective CD purchasing is more likely to turn someone on to reggae than a concert

m jemmeson, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Then again, sometimes Mad Professor can be killer.

cybele, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Nope. Mind made up. There's also the risk that my brand new company car could have an illicit rendevous with a cement brick. I like M's idea better - save the money, buy some discs, and acquaint myself with the music that way. I wouldn't mind going, but for TWENTY FIVE bucks?

David Raposa, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

we've talked about this before, david i'm sure. NO show is worth $25 bucks. not even miles davis' corpse in a daishiki.

jess, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Bullshit. I saw Lee Perry a few years ago with Mad Professor. He played for four hours, smoking giant spliffs that would have felled a lesser man in seconds the whole time. You have to see him just to see him prance around. (Great nude photo in Vanity Fair this month).

Ben Williams, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Also, dub IS a live music. You can't get the true physical impact of the music without hearing it booming out of enormous bass bins. Just go and hear a really kickass sound system and be transported to another dimension. I don't know if Abu Shanti still plays in London, but he's great.

Ben Williams, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Not to change the subject, but I think paying $32 to see Mission of Burma is pretty fair. Sort of. Maybe. Well, if they dedicate the set to me. And make "Einstein's Day" into "Raposa's Day". And change their name to Dave Is All Good. Yeah, then it'd be worth it.

But never mind me and my minor griping. Have I thanked you all for your recommendations yet? I haven't gone out and bought anything, mind you, but when I do, you'll be the 10th or 11th to know.

David Raposa, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

weed smokers in tha hay-ouse!!!! :)

fuckin contrary: Towers of Dub is better than Yabby U

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

To whoever said that dub needs to be experienced on a giant sound system: word.

You just can't get it loud enough at home. It's gotta be so heavy that you can feel the bass from your fingers through to your toes. I'd pay $25 for that--then again, I'm Canadian. Don't know whether I'd pay $25 US.

cybele, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Live Dub soundsystems are the best way to hear dub, unless you've got a 200k rig in your front room, seeing Jah shaka live the physicality of the bass is sickening, especially mixed with some weed, perfect!

jk, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I saw Lee Perry recently and it was dross. Having said that, dub can work live. Dennis Bovell and the Dub Band, for example, with DB making special effects with his voice. Staggering.

Daniel, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

People with serious knowledge have joined since the last time we covered this territory. I'm sure I'll be returning to this thread before my next trip to the record store. Nice work.

Mark, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i was talking about live reggae concerts, i.e. with a band, singers etc, which *usually* wouldn't be a great introduction to reggae.

dub sound-systems play a variety of *records*, and are a safer bet as an introduction (as well as getting the impact of the bass. Jah Shaka is very good, another big UK name is Aba Shanti. most JA sound systems will play dancehall.

m jemmeson, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Right there with you...Reggae is and will always be producer/sound engineer music.

Bring on the Scratch, Jammy, and Tubby...and forward the bass.

cybele, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Anybody know anything about the Recall label? They're doing some 2-CD sets - Augustus Pablo, King Tubby, Horace Andy etc. I bought the Augustus Pablo one, called "Jah Inspiration" and I'm pretty disappointed - some lifeless, poorly recorded trundles on one disc, and some King Tubby dubs (so it says) on disc 2. Have I bought a pup?

Dr. C, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...
My other *real* thing at the moment is 70s Gregory Isaacs. More Gregory.

Soon Forward and Mr. Isaacs are incredible. Smooooth mofo.

A step back a little further to rocksteady can't do any harm

Love love love rocksteady. Anybody who likes American soul music should check into it. Some favorites: John Holt (and the Paragons), Slim Smith (and the Techniques/Uniques), Pat Kelly, Ken Boothe, The Heptones.

The Pressure Sounds comps are great too.

The Royals singles compilation on Pressure Sounds, 'Pick Up the Pieces', has been kicking my ass recently. Classic from beginning to end. Dubwise, the Joe Gibbs comp. 'No Bones for the Dogs' is quality throughout as well.

Other shit that I've been hooked on and can usu be found at a good price: Delroy Wilson 'Good All Over' (rocksteady at the cusp of reggae), Dub Over Dub (27 tracks of Errol Thompson's mixing, with solid tracks as a base), the Wailing Souls self-titled debut (superb, utterly beautiful singing and catchy yet rough tunes), Scientist vs Space Invaders (um, it's early 80s Scientist. nuff said), Gladiators 'Proverbial Reggae' (you know reggae is the shit when an album this good hardly gets discussed)

oops (Oops), Saturday, 21 June 2003 07:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

the only dub reggae album you need is best dressed chicken in town by dr alimantado. it has the best sleeve ever as well

ss, Saturday, 21 June 2003 16:59 (9 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...
"A History of Dub: The Golden Age" is an amazing comp.

Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 07:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

Also: are there any record stores in NYC where I can find CHEAP used dub LPs? (where cheap is like $5-$7.)

Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 07:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

Just want to plug for the King Jammy's book--probably one of the best stuff, certainly one of the only things, about that era of dancehall written. Plus...Intro design!

Born Fi Dead by Laurie Gunst is also essential to get that time, tho less about music than politics.

Ian, check Jammyland in the East Village. Might be more $8-$12 but the selection is all essential. Everything above and more. In JA fashion, will play you 45s and LPs if you ask. If you can make it out to Moodies in the north Bronx, it's also amazing. More stuff straight from JA distributors. VP, of course, too in Queens.

Jeff Chang, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 16:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

Other thing is Shanachie has just re-released Augustus Pablo's King Tubby Meets The Rockers Uptown in deluxe edition with extra dubs. It's incredible.

Jeff Chang, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 16:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

I have the old version on Shanachie and the tracks are mislabeled, causing me to not know which was the title track, ie it says it's track #8 but it's really #9 IIRC. AMG has it wrong, too.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 16:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

Now I love A. Pablo as much as the next man, probably even more. But am I the only one who feels a bit underwhelmed at the prospect of hearing more versions of those classic Rockers rhythms? I know that one's not supposed to say this but more cuts of those rhythms = diminishing returns, I fear.

Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 16:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

I could listen to him all day at the moment. The best album I've bought in the last year or so is this :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008LKHZ/ref=sr_aps_music_1_1/202-0254809-4916649

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 17:22 (9 years ago) Permalink

4 years pass...

if you stick to Blood and Fire, Pressure Sounds, On-U, Trojan etc at first you should avoid the real stinkers, although all these labels have been guilty of barrel-scraping with certain releases.

On what discs is Blood & Fire ''barrel-scraping''? I mean, I've only got about 25 of their discs (RIP to B&F, BTW), but I haven't heard any ''barrel-scraping.''

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 2 March 2008 17:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

Forget Heart of the Congo's, overrated.

-- Omar, Wednesday, October 31, 2001 8:00 PM (6 years ago)

huh

am0n, Sunday, 2 March 2008 18:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

i just ordered that jammys book mentioned upthread

am0n, Sunday, 2 March 2008 19:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

5 dolla

am0n, Sunday, 2 March 2008 22:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

'Nother good dub/reggae book is supposed to be Michael E. Veal's Dub: Soundscapes & Shattered Songs in Jamaican Reggae (2007).

Also 5 dolla, perhaps?

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 2 March 2008 23:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

I just randomly found Lee Perry's Ape-ology, BTW. Will be spinning it this evening. Should I prepare myself to be disappointed or is this a "change your life"-type experience (or does it fall somewhere in between, perhaps)?

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 2 March 2008 23:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

judy mowatt.
gregory isaacs.

dylannn, Sunday, 2 March 2008 23:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

I just randomly found Lee Perry's Ape-ology, BTW. Will be spinning it this evening. Should I prepare myself to be disappointed or is this a "change your life"-type experience (or does it fall somewhere in between, perhaps)?

-- Daniel, Esq.

I like Ape-ology but prefer the Arkology boxset which is full of great vocalists (Max Romeo et al.) and is therefore a bit more accessible. Ape-ology is a much heavier / claustrophobic proposition.

sam500, Monday, 3 March 2008 05:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

Ape-ology is just Super Ape (super awesome) + Return of the Super Ape (not as awesome) + Roast Fish, Collie, & Cornbread (awesome, but Perry vocals get a little wearying after a while), right? Yeah Arkology is better.

Alex in SF, Monday, 3 March 2008 19:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

i agree with the poster that said heart of the congo is overrated. there are a couple of very nice trax on it, but....
why come nobody has mentioned Black Uhuru on this thread? i can't think of a better reggae group from the eighties - Anthem and Red are both pretty stellar

outdoor_miner, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

Anyway the answer to the original B&F question is that Congos and Burning Spear and Tubby stuff that were among their original releases were so strong that for a while everything else kind of paled in comparison and so a lot of reggae trainspotters got down on the label. Specifically I recall the Morwells, U-Brown, Impact All Stars getting a lot of flack (needlessly frankly.)

Alex in SF, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

re: congos being overrated

this is truly an idiot's guide

elan, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:11 (5 years ago) Permalink

Roast Fish, Collie Weed & Cornbread is classic Perry. Also a big fan of "Kung Fu Man" on The Mighty Upsetter.

ian, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hell, I haven't heard any Perry I didn't like. Double Seven and Blackboard Jungle Dub also get a lot of play around here.

ian, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah Arkology is better.

No option for yesterday, as Ape-ology is all this place had. However, some time earlier I did find The Upsetter Selection at the same place. Not bad for a Border's Bookstore music section.

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 3 March 2008 20:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

been on a bit of a dub binge lately - Scientist, Prince Far-I, Culture (almost all at the recommendation of some other ILM dub thread - thx ILM!)

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 3 March 2008 20:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm really enjoying Ape-ology. I vaguely remember somebody upthread saying it's heavy, dark-ish dub/reggae, but I think the psychadelic touches (n.1) give it a lighter-touch than a lot of other (great in its own way) dub/reggae I've heard, e.g., Blood & Fire's stuff.

___________________________
(n.1) I also want to say the guitars give it a lighter sound, at least I think it's guitars I'm hearing on at least the early cuts on Super-Ape.

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 3 March 2008 20:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

A lot of people would argue that Super Ape is exactly the opposite of light. Rather than being dub reduced to drum/bass/echo, it's MAXIMALIST dub with every track featuring more more more production touches, effects, instruments and even vocals. Either way it's great.

Alex in SF, Monday, 3 March 2008 21:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

Either way it's great.

Agreed, from what I've heard so far. "Maximalist Dub" is a good term for it (unlike the more hollowed-out, minimal sound of, say, Tubby or Hudson).

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 3 March 2008 21:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

"i can't think of a better reggae group from the eighties"

There's not much competition here ya know. Steel Pulse? Misty in the Roots? Reggae groups are pretty much the minority anyway.

Alex in SF, Monday, 3 March 2008 22:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

Guess Whose Coming To Dinner, by Black Uhuru, is good (the song, I mean; I haven't had enough time to consider the whole disc).

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 3 March 2008 22:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

It's a good album too. Probably their best.

Alex in SF, Monday, 3 March 2008 22:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

Shine Eye Dub is my Uhuru of choice.

ian, Monday, 3 March 2008 22:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

steel pulse is pretty awes. i really want to hear 'rally round' now.

Jordan, Monday, 3 March 2008 22:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqYT1HWEcF8

Jordan, Monday, 3 March 2008 22:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

what no love for ASWAD

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 3 March 2008 22:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

no idea re the sounds but i love the cover art on these ..

mark e, Friday, 25 January 2013 21:25 (4 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

scott seward, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 20:39 (3 months ago) Permalink

put another dub up that i like.

scott seward, Thursday, 28 February 2013 17:17 (3 months ago) Permalink

the sibley is v nice, ty - some of the same gospelised feel as george faith stuff like 'to be a lover' tho' considerably rawer

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 28 February 2013 17:30 (3 months ago) Permalink

one more fave i put up today. digi madness!

scott seward, Thursday, 28 February 2013 18:46 (3 months ago) Permalink

picked this up yesterday

Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 March 2013 18:42 (3 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

ordered this today

my collection severely lacking in the Horace Andy dept for some reason

four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 2 May 2013 16:43 (1 month ago) Permalink

Oh, that looks good.

brotherlovesdub, Thursday, 2 May 2013 17:19 (1 month ago) Permalink

watched "Rockers" over the weekend, weird that I had never even heard of this movie until like a year ago

four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 May 2013 16:23 (1 month ago) Permalink

can't go wrong with this (if u don't have it yet)

am0n, Monday, 6 May 2013 16:32 (1 month ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

argh have spent the whole day trying to find this goddamn horn break that I KNOW I have and can't remember the song arrrrghhh. It's an ascending line, 3 sets of 4 sixteenth notes followed by two quarter notes gah where the fuck is this thing

Mr. Scarf Ace is Back (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 31 May 2013 21:17 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Can you hum it to me? What type of rhythm? Vocal or dub? What era?

brotherlovesdub, Saturday, 1 June 2013 03:17 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

dub, mid-70s
it goes

da da da da (root note)
da da da da (third)
da da da da (fifth)
dah dah (root one octave up)

I think

Mr. Scarf Ace is Back (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, 1 June 2013 17:30 (2 weeks ago) Permalink


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