what are barack obama's flaws?

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i wonder about his ability/willingness to get his hands dirty and wrestle things to the ground. saying you're willing to talk to iran/hamas/whoever is all well and good, but if you go into those situations you have to go in saying, "here's the deal: you can get this and this, you can't get this and this, and we're going to have to fight about this and this -- but if the fight goes on too long, you get nothing." the bushies have been terrible at that stuff, so it's not like the bar is set particularly high, but it would be nice to have someone who can actually get some things done. (wouldn't have to be him personally, but he'd need some hardball players around who knew how to do that.) (same applies in dealing with congress, obviously.)

tipsy mothra, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

deex -- i didn't say he's overly correct, but i think he may be presumptuous that America will be eager or grateful about implementing the changes he wants

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

also I am dead serious that his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet is really not reassuring at all

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

he actually comes across as a guy who would be an absolute expert at that kind of stuff to me tipsy

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

yah he def should cut that out xp

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

nodding slowly and looking thoughtful is the way to go

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet

this doesn't bother me so much -- it's campaign season and he has to be excruciatingly calculating about his diction. when he speaks off the cuff he gets in trouble, but really only because he running for office

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

or alternatively quit being so optimistic about your fellow humans that you keep getting surprised by shit, like Wright dropping an atom bomb on you on national television

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

xp Still, I think Hillary is a better extemporaneous speaker.

jaymc, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

his almost musical hand-gesture of 'conducting' a discussion / 'putting a fine point' on an argument

it's like the new bubba remote

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

I don't think Tom's point is that Obama is going to cause terrorism to happen, just that when it does he's going to look bad.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

you guys all seem to think obama waaaaaaaaay less pragmatic than i do, i guess

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

I actually HOPE he's more cynical and pragmatic than I'm giving him credit for.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

eh tom did begin his post w/"foreign policy naivete." soo...

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

I don't think Tom's point is that Obama is going to cause terrorism to happen, just that when it does he's going to look bad.

-- Hurting 2, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:18 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

isnt this precisely cuz its easy to paint him as a pussy/pushover, which you guys all seem to be buying into?? i think hes far from either of those things. and i dont mean to draw this into electability issues, just that im more interested in what might be lurking behind the 'optimist' facade

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

i mean, this guy is naive?? he comes across as a freaking borderline genius to me

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Bush adminstration has done so much to restore if not empower the executive branch that I doubt President McCain, Clinton, or Obama would be so eager to rescind those powers -- why would you?

I wish he was an atheist -- with his oratorical skills he could do lots for the millions of us who want to hear a convincing defense of godlessness put to theists. And yet, and yet, I suspect he IS less of a god-fearing man than he pretends. Something about his preternatural coolness bespeaks a kind of deism.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

might not be able to tame congress and end up like Clinton in 1994

Can't see that happening. He's got too many friends there already on both sides. Senators apparently luv the dude.

xp Still, I think Hillary is a better extemporaneous speaker.

unless you ask her about bill's position on nafta and she goes into that uncomfortable cackle that's soooo painful to watch.

kenan, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

just a little armchair psychoanalysis, let's all be cool

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

its funny how everyone buys the optimist/naivety package - its a symptom of dumb cynicism - those two really dont have to come together

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

in fact i bet that obama is closer to the optimist/cynic model

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

its funny how everyone buys the optimist/naivety package

^^^. The right wing has been all "SEE? SEE? AUDACITY OF HOPE MY ASS!" the last couple of weeks; they've accepted the narrative that Obama is a New Kind of Politician. To me he's "new" only in that he understands the importance of words and is uncommonly quick-witted.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

yeah i dunno if thats directed at me or not but i agree -- im not saying i dont believe the guy isnt genuinely optimistic, but i def dont believe he's remotely naive, like not even remotely remotely xps to jhoshea

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

not directed at u in the slightest deez

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

paranoid/optimist ^^^ lol

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

More on Obama & civil liberties: he voted to make permanent all but two of the PATRIOT act provisions that had been originally passed with an expiration date - so not exactly a wide-eyed innocent on that front.

o. nate, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

i mean, this guy is naive?? he comes across as a freaking borderline genius to me

Early on I thought he came off as naive when he said that having lived abroad was a foreign policy credential. Like not only naive for thinking that (which he might not have, really), but naive for thinking it sounded good.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

i really don't think disappointments with an obama presidency will be with character flaws per se.

something that occasionally makes me uneasy about his campaign rhetoric is that he'll elide the differences between kinds of identity, most problematically ethnic and economic identities. being Latino isn't really like being rich even though there's a fair degree of mystification cast over class as culture in this country. i don't really know where i'm going with this; it fits his overall message well to talk about the poor/rich divide as bridgeable, but that's a divide that economic policy should be targeted at eliminating or at least bringing closer, it's not like the problem is, oh if only poor people and rich people could just sit down over coffee and talk.

horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

which i'm sure he knows and in part he's hemmed in by the landmine that is talking about class in America.

horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

oh if only poor people and rich people could just sit down over coffee and talk.

-- horseshoe, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:48 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

(ahem, not that I've seen it.)

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

isn't the deal with character flaws you see powerfully ten years after that they're the things you saw as VIRTUES at the time

no one's going to be lookin back at president two-term obama and sayin "yes how did i not see he was naive?" -- what will piss you off abt him will be a quality you were pleased abt back when you voted for him

mark s, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

he will beat me in basketball and steal my girlfriend

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

maybe but i was really (maybe willfully?) blind to the bill clinton is untrustworthy thing in the 90s. i can see how it was the flipside of his charm in retrospect, i guess.

xpost

horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

edwards was better at talking about class that obama, as i remember, but i also think its "easier" to talk about class as a white guy than it is as a black guy

max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

and the flip side of that was that edwards was no good at talking about race.

max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

uh, whatever that would mean, i guess

max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

I wish he was an atheist -- with his oratorical skills he could do lots for the millions of us who want to hear a convincing defense of godlessness put to theists. And yet, and yet, I suspect he IS less of a god-fearing man than he pretends. Something about his preternatural coolness bespeaks a kind of deism.

I kind of like to think that Barack Obama's reasonable optimism is engendering a sort of secular spirituality in the country.

Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

it pretty funny fighting bill clinton and being all ooooh yah ok now i see why he got under yr skin so bad

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

i really want obama to give a truth bomb class speech like he did with race. lol campaign fan fiction.

xposts

horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

also easier to 'talk about class' when you're never gonna be Prez and just want to influence the debate

gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

at the time (i was like 10) i didnt believe that shit, just thought it was partisan & desperate

Nobody's gonna call bullshit on a 10 year-old and what studying up on the Clintons?

jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

hes never going to be able to give a speech about class with that kind of credibility after the "bitter" thing

max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

i think edwards wanted to be prez xxp

deej, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

I didn't say he didn't want to be prez

gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

No results found for "obama edwards slash fiction".

max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

also easier to 'talk about class' when you're never gonna be Prez and just want to influence the debate

-- gabbneb, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:00 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

yeah, i think that's basically right.

horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

hes never going to be able to give a speech about class with that kind of credibility after the "bitter" thing

-- max, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

okay, in my imaginary fan fic scenario, an in-depth justification of the "bitter" thing would be the pretext for the entire speech! OMG AMAZING, RIGHT? but yeah, whatevs. i love him.

horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

He worked his way up the ankles to Jim's knees, and then his thighs. As Edwards's hands continued up Obama's body to his torso, they traveled lightly over Obama's full rear end. Edwards's blood quickened at his first touch of such an interesting area of flesh.

He lathered up Obama's stomach and carefully rubbed the soap over the other man's front. "I am pleased that your chest is once again free of hair," Edwards remarked. Then he ran his foamy hands over Obama's pecs, grazing both nipples at once.

"Mm," Obama grunted in answer. More of his penis went turgid. Edwards continued to clean him as if he hadn't noticed, moving soap all around Obama's back without missing an inch of skin.

Edwards returned to the floor and gathered more soap into his hand. Now he ran his curious, searching fingers against Obama's inner thighs, exploring the contours and lines there which were uniquely Obama's.

max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

this ad kicks the gas tax freebie's ass

http://thepage.time.com/2008/04/30/obama-responds-to-clinton-in-new-north-carolina-indiana-ad/

gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

wtf is going on here

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 16 May 2016 14:35 (1 month ago) Permalink

4 weeks pass...

I think he's been a good president overall, would take a third term. Still something rubs me the wrong way about his hemmy-hawy answers to questions, like when he's trying to sound folksy and intellectual at the same time and his voice gets all caught up in his nose and jaw. I think he has a touch of the same "insincere" quality that Hillary has worse, and this may contribute to the right's dislike of him, though there are more obvious reasons why the right dislikes him. The only thing GWB was really any good at was seeming like himself.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Monday, 13 June 2016 15:46 (1 week ago) Permalink

late examples may also just be a sign of the fatigue of the presidency, perhaps a touch of mild depression or a feeling of having to go through the motions.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Monday, 13 June 2016 15:47 (1 week ago) Permalink

yes he seems increasingly more weary and beaten down with every shooting. which is kind of what I would want in a President. I do think he's been a great president. I am frustrated by the lack of progress in some respects but I think he's done what he could given how much internal opposition he faces on basically everything he tries to do, I've never seen anything like it.

frogbs, Monday, 13 June 2016 15:56 (1 week ago) Permalink

i'm confused and upset by his immigration enforcement actions and the fucking drone strikes, i don't get how it squares with what he says he wants to achieve in the world

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 13 June 2016 16:08 (1 week ago) Permalink

I think he sees himself as a logical centrist, and therefore drone strikes to him are a middle ground between sending troops in which could result in more deaths to both civilians and US troops; and doing nothing which, while keeping the US from being involved with directly killing civilians, will allow extremists to terrorize and kill civilians and others around the world

curmudgeon, Monday, 13 June 2016 18:45 (1 week ago) Permalink

I don't think drone strikes and immigration enforcement are things he has to square!

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 June 2016 18:46 (1 week ago) Permalink

But I think he would make an argument for it squaring with what he wants to achieve in the world, if he had too

curmudgeon, Monday, 13 June 2016 18:50 (1 week ago) Permalink

yeah, the video that prompted my post was also very much in that "logical, reasonable middle ground" style, where he first bent every which way to assure the audience no one wanted to take their guns, then brought in an appeal to facts and data and science and an analogy about cars and various car-related policies (drivers' licenses, airbags, etc.), and finally expressed that a sensible regime could be created of letting all the hunters and sportsmen and self-defenders keep the guns they like while getting them out of the wrong hands. Hard to argue with, but a little bit lacking in feeling.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Monday, 13 June 2016 18:51 (1 week ago) Permalink

If nothing else Obama is definitely the funniest president we've had in my lifetime

frogbs, Monday, 13 June 2016 21:09 (1 week ago) Permalink

that event is the ur-moment of trump's candidacy; you can see him seething with resentment (he even starts rocking back and forth) as obama mocks him

wizzz! (amateurist), Monday, 13 June 2016 21:16 (1 week ago) Permalink

I'd point it to the moment where Obama says, "all kidding aside, obviously we all know about your credentials and breadth of experience..." and the audience cracks up, clearly he's thinking "I'll show them all"

frogbs, Monday, 13 June 2016 21:20 (1 week ago) Permalink

it gives a new literalness to he phrase 'politics of resentment'

wizzz! (amateurist), Monday, 13 June 2016 21:21 (1 week ago) Permalink


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