3) Why bother?
-- kenan, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 03:47 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link
I have Vista somewhere on this machine, and every time I've tried to use it it's done something incredibly annoying, or incredibly stupid, or gone wrong in some way. Ubuntu just works.
Linux is a crap option for games though.
― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 20:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
i only like eating food that Abbott can't afford
Hahahaha well obv I prefer that food (ie most everything) BUT....I can't afford it.
― Abbott, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 20:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
I have Vista somewhere on this machine
Yeah... I dropped back to XP myself. Just like in the Mac commercial.
― kenan, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 22:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
vista wouldn't let me :(
i used to use suse but i got fed up with it :(
― DG, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 22:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
No, you can't just GO back, you have to reformat, reinstall, and start aaaaaall over.
― kenan, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 22:06 (5 years ago) Permalink
Upside: a fresh install of XP on a blank drive will mbring back those wonderful long-ago times when your PC was fast.
― kenan, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 22:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Dave, you wouldn't believe some of the deals I see on Suns in Manhattan....
― Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 22:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
Last couple of times I've done linux installs - it has been: a) quicker than a windows xp install b) all the hardware works straight away (more than with xp)
I'd recommend Ubuntu or Fedora. I do still think that there is a massive problem if you need to open word, excel, powerpoint documents. Openoffice is ok but documents still never come out exactly right. I have this problem with Mac too though - it's really the lack of a proper office standard than a problem with Linux.
― tpp, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 22:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah i did but something causes the XP install program to crash xxxpost
― DG, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 22:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
Hi Tracer!
My boss is trying to get me to boot off Linux live cd.s like knoppix, but the way I see it if I can't use good applications I'm not sure I'll have much use, unless I was a programmer. If there is a good linux based multitrack sound recorder... Still, I am really liking garageband. I guess its just romatic to think of everyone using their own different OS , but in the end there is a need for everyone to be on the same page too
― Latham Green, Tuesday, 20 November 2007 23:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
ew knoppix
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 00:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ubuntu is a live CD, use that. Knoppix is suited to small storage devices and therefore a bit rubbish for everything else.
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 00:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ubuntu? Of course after years of poverty I am just learning the entire MAC OS X now too. My parents bought me a macbook to help me throu gh school days. I wonder if I could run a linux on it? Isnt MAC OS X unix based?
― Latham Green, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 01:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
You can run Linux on Apple hardware fine, but as you say the default operating system is Unix-based and considerably better put together as far as the average end-user is concerned, so very few people bother.
[Exception: software packaging, dependency resolution, upgrading and other sysadmin stuff on Debian-based Linux >>> than on OS X]
― caek, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 01:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
^^^
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 01:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm upgrading feisty to gutsy and EVERY FOUR SECONDS it's stopping the 50-minute upgrade to ask me if I want to replace a file. YES I WANT TO REPLACE A FILE, JUST FUCKING DO IT.
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 11:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
There is a command line switch to say yes to every question if you're doing this using apt-get rather tha Synaptic.
-y, --yes, --assume-yes, Automatic yes to prompts; assume "yes" as answer to all prompts and run non-interactively. If an undesirable situation, such as changing a held package or removing an essential package occurs then apt-get will abort. Configuration Item: APT::Get::As- sume-Yes.
― caek, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 14:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh, yeah, thanks, but I'd already kicked it off in the Update Manager thing. It didn't start hassling me until after I'd downloaded the 1.5Gb of updates.
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 19:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
Christ. After upgrading to gutsy I couldn't hotplug usb devices. Had to go into some obscure setting to fix it. Clearly some way to go for the ordinary folk.
― Autumn Almanac, Thursday, 22 November 2007 11:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'd like to use Linux but...
1) I use my machines for work, not just for internet terminals and general futzing around with photos and music and what have you.
2) I've never been motivated enough to learn to make it work even for that much.
Somewhere in the back of my mind, I knew I'd eat those words. I didn't know it would be this soon, though. So, ok... Windows XP is gone. Completely done with. Now it's all about Ubuntu 7.10, the "Greedy Gardener" or whatever the fuck they're calling it. Some initial observations:
First the bad news. Configuring drivers can be a honking pain in the butt. I still haven't gotten it to properly recognize my 5-button mouse. The driver for my monitor had to be reinstalled a couple of times before it stuck. Don't ask me why. installing fonts is a minor disaster. And of course there's a bit of a learning curve, but really it's not nearly as daunting as it has been for me in the past.
The good things: A very impressive amount of it Just Works. The Totem media player, for instance, is maybe the only media player I have ever seen that searches for codecs, finds them, installs them correctly, and then plays the frickin' movie. It's a brave new world. Also... my goodness it's fast! Even rendering those wacky graphics, like Beryl stuff, is just burnin'. The graphics rendering as a whole is top-notch, and the font smoothing is exceptional -- better than Mac, I'd say. It's highly customizable, which I love, since unnecessarily changing the color of things is one of my favorite computer pastimes. Of course Gimp can't replace Photoshop, but every time I play with it, I'm impressed with how much it does do.
There is more work to be done before I can report on some more essential stuff, like networking. Apparently you can remote desktop into Mac OS? And vice versa? That sounds exciting.
― kenan, Monday, 10 December 2007 22:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
This thread is exactly why Linux should be avoided, especially for desktop use. Plus, guilting people into Linux is really low-down.
― libcrypt, Monday, 10 December 2007 22:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Apparently you can remote desktop into Mac OS? And vice versa? That sounds exciting.
Yes, you can use Apple Remote Desktop (faster) or VNC (slower). VNC works with basically every GUI under the sun, except maybe Aegis.
― libcrypt, Monday, 10 December 2007 22:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
Guilting people into using Linux? Huh??
― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 11 December 2007 01:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
7.10 has a REALLY annoying bug that means my backlight won't go off when I close the laptop lid, and "da community" won't release a fix until April (probably because it's a kernel bug). This gives me the shits, but the fact that Vista's first service pack won't be out until next year puts things into perspective.
― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 11 December 2007 01:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
Do you really want to support the EVIL empire, Microsoft? Are you just a just a puppet, a corporate TOOL who has never considered that the OS yr PC comes with might not be the ONLY OS? Are you really in favor of PROPRIETARY applications that limit FREEDOM in favor of bloody PROFITS? Have you sold your SOUL for thirty pieces of SILVER?
And so on. By and large, folks who say they'd like to run Linux, but... are often speaking from some vague sense of guilt-by-association with Microsoft, not by a desire to have some functionality Linux offers that Windows doesn't. (I'm not saying that anyone here ain't Linuxing entirely of their own free will, etc., nor that there's a Linux guilt squad on the loose.) The geeks who are driven to Linux by a need to tinker never find themselves in need of an "excuse". And I sure have heard a lotta folks offer guilty excuses regarding why they aren't using Linux. This is sad. Folks ought feel no obligation to do this or that or whatever with their computers. If you want to tinker, then do so, but it's not an obligation.
Besides, there are more tinkerable choices than Linux, anyways.
― libcrypt, Tuesday, 11 December 2007 03:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh yeah, fair enough.
Beryl/Compiz alone is incentive enough for people to look beyond Windows/Mac.
(Incidentally, whilst typing the above sentence my work Windows PC froze for 20 seconds for no reason.)
― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 11 December 2007 03:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
The whole reason I went (back) to Linux 10 months ago is Windows-specific issues: Viruses and spyware, poor performance, hulking registry.
― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 11 December 2007 03:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
I have learned much. Lesson #1 -- RTFM. Do not go off googling stuff and installing programs and drivers that were compatible with earlier editions of the OS. That's a bad idea, born of hubris.
Ok, so I reinstalled and started fresh, and with user manual on screen and a determination not to mess with what need not be messed with, I have reached to point of saying that Ubuntu Linux 7.10 is a thing of blinding operating-system beauty. I installed it on my work PC now, and was amazed -- AMAZED! -- at the way it detected networks, computers, printers... it was the easiest computer setup I've ever had the pleasure of overseeing. It looks great. It feels intuitive. It's endlessly customizable. It runs Office docs with grace and aplomb. It's fast as doo doo. Compared to XP, it's the difference between It's A Small World and Space Mountain. I am totally sold.
― kenan, Monday, 17 December 2007 17:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
:) :)
― kenan, Monday, 17 December 2007 17:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm struggling with red hat seeing my physical hardware (nothing coming from lspci)
― Alex in Denver, Monday, 17 December 2007 18:07 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's OK to Google stuff, dude.
― libcrypt, Monday, 17 December 2007 18:10 (5 years ago) Permalink
The longer you hold out on Linux, the less you have to learn to make it work if you finally give it a go.
― Kerm, Monday, 17 December 2007 18:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
well yeah, but it's bad to follow instruction for installing nvidia drivers from two versions of the OS ago, when now all that stuff works out of the box. You end up confusing the machine. Sometimes everything would boot ok, and then sometimes it would FREAK OUT and not know what to load on startup. So, reinstall, start over. Much better now.
― kenan, Monday, 17 December 2007 18:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
they're like people smug about not owning a television set.
So unbelievably OTM. Just listened to two people brag about how they only use open source, Microsoft sux, Apple sux, blah blah blah and then complain that GIMP isn't doing what they want to do. (we have a Photoshop site license here)
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 22:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
BUT IT'S FREE
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 02:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
So I'm getting the gOS PC that runs the Ubuntu-style "Google OS." I'll mess with it a bit, but fully expect to put Ubuntu on top of it. Looking forward to it.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 03:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
I can provide hints and tips
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 03:02 (5 years ago) Permalink
Can Linux read or write to a HFS+ partition these days?
― caek, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 03:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-hfsplus http://www.ardistech.com/hfsplus/ <-- slightly better, I think
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 03:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, January 9, 2008 3:02 AM
awes
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 03:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
xp, thanks. Things have certainly moved on since I last used Linux in anger. http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/thread/20071111.064900.63247010.en.html#i20071111.064900.63247010 suggests to me that this is going to be impossible on a Debian 3.0 system on which I am not root.
Is the best bet for a filesystem that both Linux and OS X can read still FAT32?
― caek, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 03:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ubuntu 7.10 can read and write to ntfs now.
― svend, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 04:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
for the folks who need photoshop. it's not free or open source, but it runs on linux.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 10 January 2008 04:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
and it's about half the price of photoshop.
btw is it pronounced lie-nux or linn-ux ?
― Ste, Thursday, 10 January 2008 13:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
latter...
― Kerm, Thursday, 10 January 2008 13:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Kerm, Thursday, 10 January 2008 13:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
Actually
― Ste, Thursday, 10 January 2008 13:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yeah but he has an accent, see....
― Kerm, Thursday, 10 January 2008 14:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lee-nux or Linn-ux. But not Lie-nux.
― Forest Pines Mk2, Thursday, 10 January 2008 14:12 (5 years ago) Permalink
If you used an encrypted filesystem in the VM image, sure.
― mh, Monday, 7 January 2013 19:36 (5 months ago) Permalink
using Oracle virtualbox
― Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Monday, 7 January 2013 20:49 (5 months ago) Permalink
koogs, would you have a smaller swap for an SSD?
― 1.5GB of audio-destroying fluff (los blue jeans), Tuesday, 8 January 2013 04:13 (5 months ago) Permalink
no idea. all the schemes i knew for sizing these things were relevant in the days of MBs of RAM, not GBs.
but it was more the limited writes of ssds that has me worried - isn't the swap partition written to more frequently than other parts of the disk, which would suggest it'd wear out sooner. yeah, i know, wear levelling algorithms in the hardware and all. would be interesting to know.
here's something: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq
but even that seems outdated given
"High RAM and high disk space With 2 GiB RAM and 100 GB hard disk, use 2 GiB for swap since hard disk space is plentiful."
and neither 2GB ram nor 100GB HDD is particularly "high" imo
― koogs, Tuesday, 8 January 2013 09:54 (5 months ago) Permalink
in 2013 nobody really knows how big to make a swap partition
― autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 01:28 (5 months ago) Permalink
It was ever thus
― badg, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 02:16 (5 months ago) Permalink
was always HALF RAM, or maybe TWICE RAM (i forget). but then ram and disk became orders of magnitude cheaper and faster and more available, maybe to the point where things just don't swap out anymore. (also, a lot of linux machines are now single user so there are fewer processes running)
― koogs, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 09:45 (5 months ago) Permalink
I jsut spent the morning screwing with shared folders with virtual box/mint linux and -I failed
― Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:03 (5 months ago) Permalink
shared between virtual box and the host? have had trouble with that in the past. it works for one combination of guest additions / kernel and then you update and it all breaks. i ended up using a samba share, effectively copying everything over the network even though it's the same disk.
am several minor versions behind with box virtualbox and ubuntu but am sticking with something i know works.
― koogs, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:11 (5 months ago) Permalink
Booting my raspberry pi for the first time right now. I used Linux as my only OS from 2002 til 2006 but haven't really touched it since so this feels strange.
― joygoat, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 16:59 (5 months ago) Permalink
I coudl not understand what to put for mountpoint in the command line or for that matter what tp put for share - I did get usb integration to work for moving files out of virtual machine to host but that crashed my whole pc - so I guess it idd not realy work
― Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Thursday, 10 January 2013 20:12 (5 months ago) Permalink
Update. It worked and I got nice German pop files.
― Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Friday, 11 January 2013 04:44 (5 months ago) Permalink
What is a "nice German pop file?"
― fields of salmon, Monday, 21 January 2013 11:42 (4 months ago) Permalink