Citizen Kane, then...

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maybe more fun than Kane, but not as good an introduction because way less iconic?

gabbneb, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

This is all v reassuring, thx guys.

Abbott, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

This is gonna turn into what my Spike Lee thread did, huh.

Abbott, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

Touch of Evil, also fantastic.

I'm pretty sure there are Welles films to avoid. I'm just not the one to suggest them.

Eric H., Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

maybe more fun than Kane, but not as good an introduction because way less iconic?

-- gabbneb, Saturday, December 15, 2007 6:52 PM

def less iconic, plus you get charlton heston in brownface which is great for lolz, but i really love the shit out of that movie.

possibly cause i was mad lifted the first time i saw it in the utsa library.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

Welles is sooo fat in Touch of Evil, it's even more funny than de-gringoed Heston.

"Didn't you bring me any donuts or sweet rolls?"

Eric H., Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

halfway into the movie i was entertaining the seriously baked suggestion that welles' casting of heston as a hispanic guy was some profound commentary on the social construction of race.

xp to self

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

i can't wait for morbs' disquisition on baked welles

gabbneb, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

just watch citizen kane, it really is awesome, you will love it, the end.

s1ocki, Saturday, 15 December 2007 19:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

Abbott, you are talking silly nonsense or something.

Have you guys seen other films w/ Welles around that time? He wasn't THAT fat -- had to have been padded for Quinlan. Even the "I Love Lucy" he did wa sfrom maybe the year before, I think, and he was not mega-corpulent, just jowly.

The Ambersons Welles made might have been better than Kane, but the one that survives? No way.

(I think I like The Lady from Shanghai and Othello better than either.)

Dr Morbius, Saturday, 15 December 2007 22:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

abbott see them in this order:

1) kane (really entertaining; really, honest - there's a reason it's been parodied ad infinitum on the simpsons, and there's a reason pauline kael - much as i hate quoting her - called it "the most fun of any great movie ever")
2) f for fake (crazy fun, and gives a good sense of welles's sense of humor)
3) touch of evil (crazy, baroque)
4) chimes at midnight/falstaff (best movie ever)
5) macbeth (funniest shakespeare ever - othello is better objectively but i still prefer this one)

ambersons is wonderful but a very frustrating watch. it's still better than almost any movie ever even in its current form but maybe hold off on that til you see these.

J.D., Saturday, 15 December 2007 23:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

this film has a lot more going on than most top-ten all-time classic snoozefests.

OTM, i think kane is a way deeper film than, say, the bicycle thief or potemkin or city lights or the seventh seal or the godfather, not to mention funner to watch (tho i like all those).

J.D., Saturday, 15 December 2007 23:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

I saw CK for the first time just a few years ago, with all the attendant baggage, and it rocked me.

wanko ergo sum, Saturday, 15 December 2007 23:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

he was hot back then, Abbott.

OTM! the picture james naremore uses on the cover of "the magic world of orson welles" is quite fetching

JD's list is pretty solid except 1) falstaff/CoM is very hard to find (tho it rules), and 2) i'm not crazy about his othello

impudent harlot, Saturday, 15 December 2007 23:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

also, the third man, for some more great welles/joseph cotten fun, even tho it ain't a welles film as such

kingfish, Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

Why do I feel that

the bicycle thief or potemkin or city lights or the seventh seal or the godfather

weren't the "top-ten all-time classic snoozefests" enrique was referring to?

Eric H., Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

funny, that's exactly what i thought he had in mind.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

Maybe Potemkin, but I figured he was talking about Bresson and Antonioni and Godard.

Eric H., Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

D. W. Griffith's "Birth of a Soporific"

Abbott, Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

yeah it basically is, except 'the godfather'.

not bresson/antonioni/godard. well, maybe bresson -- but the pre-1960 canon. maybe early antonioni.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

ie griffith, chaplin, stroheim, lubitsch, murnau, lang, pabst, eisenstein, pudovkin, dreyer, carne, rossellini, de sica, bergman, fellini.

'kane' was like the one american sound film permissible back then -- a couple of fords, maybe, but not the westerns, that kind of thing.

changed end of the 50s -- discovery of 'regle du jeu', french new wave, rediscovery of hollywood genre cinema, blah blah.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

'ambersons' would be the best if done right, and it's still yoga flame as is, but the more you see it, the more the ending just betrays the whole thing, and i say that without being able to remember how it 'should' end.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:29 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think I like The Lady from Shanghai

Madness! I saw it again recently and it gets my vote as his worst: mannered, coy.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

the stranger's kinda weak i think, at the very least it's a waste of edward g. robinson in a boring part

impudent harlot, Sunday, 16 December 2007 01:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

Madness! I saw it again recently and it gets my vote as his worst: mannered, coy.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:38 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

look who's talking!

s1ocki, Sunday, 16 December 2007 02:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

ANyone seen this?

Crêpe, Sunday, 16 December 2007 03:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

look who's talking!

Ouch!

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 16 December 2007 04:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

Don't forget The Trial!

C0L1N B..., Sunday, 16 December 2007 06:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

I wish I could forget the Jess Franco edit of the Don Quixote material though.

C0L1N B..., Sunday, 16 December 2007 06:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

This film actually lives up to its reputation!

Tape Store, Sunday, 16 December 2007 07:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

look who's talking!

-- s1ocki, Sunday, 16 December 2007 02:04 (7 hours ago) Link

Now!

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 16 December 2007 09:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

Shanghai is, um, FUNNY.

Dr Morbius, Monday, 17 December 2007 14:26 (7 years ago) Permalink


Is is the animals that talk in this movie? Must rescreen this.

wanko ergo sum, Monday, 17 December 2007 14:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

I saw <i>Journey Into Fear</i> the other night - 40s noir, starring Joseph Cotten and Orson Wells, how could it be bad? But it was bad. Or at least pretty uncompelling.

Zelda Zonk, Monday, 17 December 2007 14:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

Wells = Welles

Zelda Zonk, Monday, 17 December 2007 14:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

you didn't like Welles' fez?

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 17 December 2007 14:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

Welles was a pretty silly caricature in the movie, even by the standards of the times I think... For a noirish movie, there was something fundamentally wrong with the plot, there just wasn't any tension.

Zelda Zonk, Monday, 17 December 2007 15:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

don't think much of his shakepeares (except 'chimes') or noirs (except 'touch of evil').

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 17 December 2007 17:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

mookieproof, Monday, 17 December 2007 17:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

YOU NEED A MORTICIAN! YOU NEED A MORTICIAN!

impudent harlot, Monday, 17 December 2007 17:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

I love how great Welles looks as an old man, and how he nails how old people move and think -- their habit of sharing curdled witticisms and phony insights -- without condescension. The newsreel section, for example, where a young reporter interviews Kane after he returns from speaking to "the great powers of Europe."

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 02:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

Malpertuis

remy bean, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 02:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

I read his credit as "Orson Welles (cassava)"

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 02:29 (7 years ago) Permalink

youtube of worst thing welles ever did

remy bean, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 02:29 (7 years ago) Permalink

You sure about that?

Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 10:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well that video didn't last for long.

Eric H., Wednesday, 26 March 2008 11:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well, you all know how it goes, crumb crisp coating, IN July, I'll go down on you &c.

Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 12:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3qg4i22x9M

deeznuts, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 12:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

is bogdanovich's commentary on the 2-disc edition worth hearing?

dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr), Wednesday, 12 May 2010 03:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

no iirc

sir gaga (s1ocki), Wednesday, 12 May 2010 14:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

lol, but actually not so bad a class discussion

teacher’s condescension maybe worst look of all:

Does messing with a figure of power not matter to you all? If there's no magical hammer for a character to throw around, or a comic book shield, then you don't get involved? Superheroes on motorcycles jumping out of jets as things explode--that's all you respond to?

drash, Monday, 13 April 2015 22:09 (1 month ago) Permalink

yeah that didn't seem warranted

Οὖτις, Monday, 13 April 2015 22:10 (1 month ago) Permalink

FDr: "Yes, it was made more for adults. Since it doesn't cater to your age group enough, you don't like it as much?"

leading question

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 April 2015 22:10 (1 month ago) Permalink

tbh the general public's attitude toward kane in 1941 doesn't seem to have been terribly different from these students' responses. the preview-audience responses to ambersons (before it was hacked up) are really depressing to read.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 13 April 2015 22:17 (1 month ago) Permalink

I have talked about Citizen Kane with 12-year-olds, and shown clips from it. Many of them were very interested. One year, I remember two or three of them pleading to tell me what Rosebud was (which I of course wouldn't--"One day you'll watch it"). I don't know the Film Doctor, but if he can't get students interested in Citizen Kane, maybe that says more about him than the students.

clemenza, Monday, 13 April 2015 22:22 (1 month ago) Permalink

Should read "to tell them," as I'm sure you figured out.

clemenza, Monday, 13 April 2015 22:28 (1 month ago) Permalink

i first saw CK when i was about 10 and loved it (despite not understanding much of it), but i always assumed i was just a weird kid.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 13 April 2015 22:40 (1 month ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

@NickPinkerton
Citizen Kane spinoffs I would watch include 'Boss' Jim Geddes, Girl on the Jersey Ferry in 1896, and Two Techs in the Rafters During Salomé.

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 17:50 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

that guy has the best twitter.

he quipped with heat (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 19:54 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

so long as he keeps the quotation marks around Boss

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 20:28 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

KANE FOUND IN LOVE NEST WITH 'SINGER'

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 20:30 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

"He wanted to take the quotes out!"

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 20:32 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

SIIIING SIIIING

Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 21:11 (2 weeks ago) Permalink


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