so so i just started doing this paleo diet thing - feels like it should be bullshit. is it?

guys, i'm sure i don't need to say it but paleo diet + booze is sort of missing the point.

let's have a look at what you ate for your first two days.

I see what you are saying, but I am pretty sure that McDonald's/tombstone oven pizza/French dip + au gratin potatoes + fancy beer is going to lose out vs paleo + fancy beet but I guess time will tell.

Ha esp if "fancy beet" was true

but fancy beer is no better for body composition than coors light is! i get what you're saying, though.

Oh no I get that, in fact I was kinda doing a wink wink because I am sure that fancy beer is actually worse than coors light tbh

i have mostly quit grains and it feels good man. i thought i needed them to not feel hungry but i do not. however i am never doing the paleo diet because i also like nightshade vegetables and legumes and wine. however nevertheless although i have discovered i love beef after not eating it for like 8 years.

pork is another story but maybe i can work on it

to answer the question i suspect it is partially bullshit

guys, i'm sure i don't need to say it but paleo diet + booze is sort of missing the point.

Diet "fascism" is just the weirdest thing to me. Like, it's possible to loosely (even very loosely) follow the guidelines of a particular diet for the sake of eating a little better. I'm gonna start calling myself a vegan just to see how many heads explode when I eat a cheeseburger.

That said, paleo makes a lot of sense in terms of eliminating processed stuff and eating more lean protein. I've only ever been an 85% adherist at best, but I definitely felt better once I went that route.

The thing with most diets is that you really have to stay on them in order to keep the weight off; if you go back to old eating habits, you will go back to your old weight

I just started counting the calories of my meals this week and its amazing how much more food you can eat if its low-fat and cooked simply just by that metric alone. Also beer is the devil ;_;

Current goal is to drop 5 lbs and then add in exercise to accelerate the process

Diet "fascism" is just the weirdest thing to me. Like, it's possible to loosely (even very loosely) follow the guidelines of a particular diet for the sake of eating a little better.

This. I've been eating paleo for over seven years but don't have a problem with the occasional drink or whatever when out. What's important is that I'm not buying non-paleo foods at the grocery store every week and having them at home.

McDonald's/tombstone oven pizza/French dip + au gratin potatoes + fancy beer

mmm

i think the paleo diet is an good diet with an incredibly silly rationale tbh

i've been paleo for 4 months now. i dropped about 25lbs while also getting stronger. It takes some time and effort to plan meals and stuff but i really don't see myself eating any other way again. I do allow myself a seldom fancy beer but i'm talking like one bomber maybe twice a month.

The thing with most diets is that you really have to stay on them in order to keep the weight off; if you go back to old eating habits, you will go back to your old weight

i really don't even think of it as a "diet" in the sense of any diet i've ever been on before. It's just become the way i eat now , i don't ever get the feeling like i'm missing something that i have to go back to.

i've not gone paleo but loosely just trying to eat vegan a few times a week, and save meat for a treat, in the last month. have lost about 3/4 of a stone and people already commenting. this is combined with exercise.

never quitting fancy beer tho.

i also cut out refined carbs as far as possible.

apart from fancy beer as mentioned.

i really don't even think of it as a "diet" in the sense of any diet i've ever been on before. It's just become the way i eat now , i don't ever get the feeling like i'm missing something that i have to go back to.

ya carne, that's what I was getting at

I feel like a lot of the evolutionary arguments are somewhere between questionable and bunk, but it's hard to go wrong with "meat/fish plus a metric ass-ton of non-starchy vegetables" as your primary food source.
Strict paleo-ists lose me when they talk about legumes being the devil. I don't like beans but they've been a pretty successful diet staple for mankind and I sincerely doubt you can trace any uptick in obesity to them.

yeah but legumes are like the least exciting thing to not be allowed to eat so it's nbd to me

leg∞mes

I thought the whole anti-beans thing was just because they cause some people gi distress. But, yeah, it seems like bunkum to be anti-beans.

That said, paleo makes a lot of sense in terms of eliminating processed stuff and eating more lean protein.

Fair enough, but "eliminating processed stuff and eating more lean protein" is not so much "paleo" as "every popular diet regimen since 1970"

i ate paleo for a couple months and it was p great i had lots of energy and got ripped, it was really too intense for me to stick with tho, but since then ive ate kinda paleoish, rarely any grains or processed sugar, lots of fruit and green vegetables, only dairy i really eat is in tea or coffee and i put butter on things for sure, i use salt but often ill eat a meal w/o adding any, i cheat more often than when i was going hardcare, have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich w/e here or there, prob my biggest deviation is that i eat a lot of fatty meat, i also drink booze and eat pickled foods and legumes, so it p lax compared to the real thing but its a way healthier diet than before i did paleo

empedocles was a proto-paleo anti-bean crazer & he threw himself into mt etna, which may be a salutary tale for the zealots

i ate paleo for a couple months and it was p great i had lots of energy and got ripped

i ate paleo for a couple months and it was p great i had lots of energy and got ripped, it was really too intense for me to stick with tho, but since then ive ate kinda paleoish, rarely any grains or processed sugar, lots of fruit and green vegetables, only dairy i really eat is in tea or coffee and i put butter on things for sure, i use salt but often ill eat a meal w/o adding any, i cheat more often than when i was going hardcare, have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich w/e here or there, prob my biggest deviation is that i eat a lot of fatty meat, i also drink booze and eat pickled foods and legumes, so it p lax compared to the real thing but its a way healthier diet than before i did paleo

butter and fatty meat are both popular w/ paleo people - unlike Atkins/etc. they're big on fats

x-post - lol

idk I'm inclined to think that paleo is BS but I think that of most fad diets. Eat less, move more. It's not rocket science but it is hard to adhere to.

butter and fatty meat are both popular w/ paleo people - unlike Atkins/etc. they're big on fats

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:27 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

atkins loves fat you can eat all the bacon you want, paleo is lean meats no dairy, tho there are a lot of home brew paleo variants out there, but if you read the book fat is def out

idk I'm inclined to think that paleo is BS but I think that of most fad diets.

― (✿◠‿◠) (ENBB), Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:28 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tautology^

xp: I was gonna say that seemed to be exactly backwards

and eat less move more is all well and good but to deny that the human body reacts differently to different types of food is kinda w/e

xxxxp Yeah, lean meats are stressed in Cordain's book but others state that is unsustanable. I found myself craving hamburger when I was living on chicken and salmon and when I started eating beef etc. again I was much happier.

fuck eating less i feel like i eat a shit ton more on paleo xp

Cordain's book is good on the science but Neanderthin is a better guide to doing this.

at first i did eat more fatty meat to kind help me cope with the lack of carbs, but after a month i really have a good balance of lean meats and more fattier cuts at times.

just eat more fancy beets. you'll feel like a million bucks!

ah, should have said I mostly know paleo from Robb Wolf and the Mark's Daily Apple guy, they're both pretty pro-fat

just eat more fancy beets. you'll feel like a million bucks!

I want to try beet juice, but the only way I can find it locally is at Whole Foods, mixed w/ carrot and ginger for $5/12 oz

yeah i mostly know Robb Wolf stuff

its funny how everyone is allowed their own paleo, i guess the idea re fat is that before agriculture fatty meat and butter did not exist, and then in the book theyll tell you abt the metabolic science behind it

livin in you own private paleo

I want to try beet juice, but the only way I can find it locally is at Whole Foods, mixed w/ carrot and ginger for $5/12 oz

lol - now that you mention it, I remember reading this a while back: http://gawker.com/5929716/all-the-olympic-athletes-are-guzzling-beet-juice

i'm not the type that's gonna cut anything out on a permanent basis but i do think paleo is really, really useful for being mindful of your grain intake vis a vis fruits, vegetables, and lean protein.

juicing is generally considered no cool amongst most contemporary fitness fanatics from what i can tell, tho that may vary if youre a competitive athlete

Just get a juicer, milo. It'll be worth it in the long run. i have afriend who makes all kinds of crazy juices with veg and whatnot and some of them are amazing tonics. She's had this juicer now for at least ten years.

fatty meat existed before agriculture! fish, game meat, etc. Not 80/20 ground beef, I guess, but still fat.

What, besides dairy, is out of a paleo diet? I assume that, even before agriculture, ppl ate certain grains and nuts and fruits as they encountered them else how would we ever have decided to cultivate them?

Here's an account of the study that found all non-Celiac "gluten intolerance" is actually FODMAP indigestion.

Table 1 of this paper offers a guide for those interested in a low FODMAP diet:

Evidence‐based dietary management of functional gastrointestinal symptoms: The FODMAP approach

There's an interesting angle that some of these FODMAPs are also prebiotics that encourage growth of beneficial bifidobacteria and lactobacillus over firmicutes and enterobacteria.

fodmap diet is hardcore, I'm kinda afraid of it

that stuff makes me too ocd, i just need to find my own way without getting crazy

i did discover that chicory does a real number on me after a clif bar gave me horrible cramps, that was new

do we have or do we want a 'food: finding our own way without getting crazy' thread? or are we better off just embedding that everywhere we can?

oh no i would be down with that

i'd like to think there's a lot of restriction exhaustion going around?

FODMAPs and gluten and paleo and no legumes and no meat and don't eat tuna and "my knees hurt if I eat corn-finished beef but not grass-finished" and DHA/EPA balance and etc etc etc

kind of all goes heavily toward Pollan on nutritionism plus the wisdom of "eat food, not too much, mostly plants"

please give me a normal food thread, did we start one? I am on the 'eat whatever I want' diet right now and I actually feel really good

what I'd really like is to have a safe space to discuss food issues, yummy food, without people citing too many studies and etc (sorry Sanpaku but it gives me anxiety) -- like vegemitegrll I have a tendency to go WAY OVERBOARD with restriction and tip into orthorexia

Just join us on the what's cooking thread! I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that this stuff makes me feel neurotic too, so I have avoided this thread until I saw today that there was a request for food talk minus neurosis.

i think the what's cooking thread is perfect for general food discussion - it's always v positive and interesting

I remember you talking about how 'detox' talk (can't remember if that was it exactly?) made you anxious, LL, and at the time I didn't understand, but ever since bouncing the paleo scene, I am subscribed to all these Paleo FB pages, and it all gives me so much anxiety.. plus I have a few militant vegan FB friends who also post a lot about the China Study etc etc and AHHHH THERE IS SO MUCH INFO AND SO MANY 'GURUS' AND ITS JUST... EXHAUSTING. i'll join the cooking thread!

all "detox" claims are 100% bullshit tbh

yep

I got nervous about starting a normal food thread because derailment potential seemed great. The What's Cooking thread is fantastic. I like the idea of occasionally using that to talk about finding a way of eating that makes you happy without resorting to restriction.

yeah that's a good idea, that's a good place to hang without studies or too much stressful crazytalk

I don't go orthorexia or too restrictive, if I start paying attention to the studies and gurus I just say "fuck it" and eat the same unhealthy shit as ever - appeasing all of the gurus and shit would be impossible.

if I collect all the studies, the guru's advice, and compared... I think the only safe thing to eat might be... steamed broccoli?

I think all roads inevitably lead to a) get busy with the enemas or b) drink yr own urine or c) some kinda weird combo of both

broccoli makes some people farty. i've been just eating what i want to eat lately and it makes me binge on garbage a lot less. reading about studies makes me want to throw up.

I'm interested in some of the studies insofar as they might give me ideas about ways of eating I could try, and see if they feel good for ME. I'm just not interested in trying to perfectly (or even imperfectly) reflect them in the way I eat. Especially not in cutting anything out.

I'm trying to learn to cook fancy-ish. Eating better because I did something cool beats listening to people argue about legumes, and I've wound up cutting way back on processed foods anyway.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/fashion/the-paleo-lifestyle-the-way-way-way-back.html?rref=homepage&module=Ribbon&version=origin®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Home%20Page&pgtype=article

Paleo, more than just food, its a lifestyle

Ms. Tam, a confessed television addict, decided to cut out all electronic devices after 8 p.m. If she has to check her iPhone, she wears amber goggles to block the blue-spectrum light that she believes interferes with her circadian rhythms. Next, she turned her bedroom into the equivalent of a Lascaux cave, removing all clocks (her two young sons serve as her morning alarm, she said) and installing blackout window inserts.

....

For those who spend their day rearing children, the primal impulse has made major inroads into parenting, too. Websites like The Primal Parent extol corn-syrup-free trick-or-treating, baby slings for “attachment parenting” and placenta-eating for new mothers.

Unstructured play, in particular, has become a cherished concept among Paleo-minded parents like Ms. Phelps, the Oregon devotee, who argued that “play is the method by which all mammals learn.”

There's some threads of truth woven throughout all of that, it's just taken to a crazy level of scrupulosity/obsession/control for control's own sake. Play IS the best way to learn, slings DO build parent/child body rhythms through scent and heartbeat and the swaying and vestibular stimulation of walking and moving. People who have trouble sleeping should think about light and stimulation, whatever.

Where it turns crazy is in the idea that you can perfect yourself and your living conditions? Like when the pursuit of some perfect or move evolved state takes precedence over...everything else?

I agree

And the desire to simplify stuff that isn't simple. More play = better. 'Play' = the same thing for all kids. 'Learning' is always best done the same way, regardless of what it is we're talking about learning. If a child rarely got into any kind of play, you'd be rightly worried - but some kids are little fantasists doing pretend play every minute and wanting adults to join in, and others are more into stuff like figuring out how things work by taking them to bits or helping 'sweep the floor'. (I'm using fraternal twins of my acquaintance as my inspiration here). A lot of researchers claim play is directly crucial to children’s healthy development, others think it's one of many routes to healthy development, or that it comes about as a result of other factors that drive development.

High Maintenance, 'Qasim' very very relevant here
http://vimeo.com/79948720

But Paleos tend to look the other way on vodka (particularly potato vodka, which is free from all associations with gluten) and 100 percent agave tequila (hey, it’s cactus).

Pinterest, in fact, is brimming with Paleo cocktail recipes, like the Paleo Strawberry Daiquiri, courtesy of Paleo Girl’s Kitchen. It is made with organic strawberries, ice, fresh-squeezed orange juice, rum and honey.

An ex started doing this two years ago. She's not rigid, but follows the basics religiously (no bread, no pasta, no beans, hardly any potatoes). You can't find a more skeptical person like me when it comes to this stuff, but she has lost 30lbs and is looking more healthy than I've ever seen her before. It's quite remarkable. She tried loads of diets before and it always failed. This, she says, isn't even really dieting, as in not depriving yourself of things. But her transformation is truly remarkable.

I'm basically on this damn diet out of necessity and I'm not going to lie, there are upsides. But if those foods didn't cause me pain and suffering? I'd eat a fucking pizza once in a while.

Some of the less caveman-obsessed paleo people are starting to come around on some bullshit like 'no legumes.' That's the part of (aside from feeding into questionable intolerance/allergen paranoia - not even gluten so much as nightshades) paleo that never made any sense to me - whatever perceived negatives there are of legumes are cancelled out by cooking the damn things.

paleo parenting? isn't low infant mortality sort of not paleo

the person who runs this blog just followed me on twitter randomly and... i dunno, wau

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.co.uk/

I am sitting in a cafe that sells, and facilitates loud conversations about, bulletproof coffee. I'm not sure how I'm going to get along in this neighbourhood.

I don't know about that blogger. An obsession with the exact proportions of various species of bacteria in one's gut as a profound indicator of one's health or lack thereof seems a bit ott.

i read a story on bulletproof coffee on a local news blog and the comments section is making me think there is substantial overlap w/anti-vaccine loons among the bulletproof crowd.

there's definitely a narcissistic crossfit/paleo/antivax nexus out there that reminds me of the "save our precious bodily fluids" guy in dr. strangelove

in knoxville tennessee there is a new "paleo cafe" a 10-minute drive from my parents' place on an unpromising stretch of highway, home to failed thrift stores, a long-standing subway franchise, a CVS and a megachurch. this cafe serves surprisingly good food but shares a wall with a crossfit/lifting situation, so as you're waiting for your avocado and egg served on an almond flour waffle you hear what sounds like a datsun being dropped from a two-story building every 3 or 4 minutes, it's utterly unnerving. "you get used to it" says the waitress. "RRRRAAAAGGGH" says someone from the other side of the wall. "the water's reverse osmosis," she says. "ok."

is this guy nuts or

https://twitter.com/johndurant/status/618795070569852928

scroll down for mentions of erections, tim ferriss

ha. i have a mild but very persistent skin problem (and taking probiotics has tended to help a lot) so im very tempted to try this! it's expensive though.

huh! what a thing

it's funny though i think a lot of stuff like this is basically a work around to actually, you know, eating and living in a healthy manner.

(and, surely, not being overly exposed to antibiotics)

Just use baking soda ftw.

microbiome stuff and the human body is pretty fascinating and seems to open the door to a whole new way of understanding health and nutrition, but it's gonna be the wild west out there with the hucksterism.

the guy who started aobiome is the same guy who started a big ALS research non-profit after his brother died from it

i mean

https://twitter.com/johndurant/status/618855099654373376

oh wait i *think* that's a joke

Mr. Jaq and I were in on the initial AOBiome deliveries - it worked well for us as a no soap/no shampoo kind of thing, but didn't really help his eczema.