Also I really like that absent Rory, Amy is super-competent.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:25 (eleven years ago) link
Is this actually the first time that we've seen the Doctor being a Doctor Doctor?
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 10 September 2012 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
Sontarans + Doctor's Daughter + Planet of the Ood + tbh a lot of Journey's End knock it below Season 5, imho.
Agreed.
― NR’s resident heavy-metal expert (Nicole), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
how many old Who adversaries have been resurrected on the nu-Who to date? I recall off the top of my head:
AutonsDaleksCybermen/CybermatsThe Macra <--- fucking lol btwThe SontaransThe Silurians
The Ice Warriors haven't appeared yet, have they? They really should at some point (I know they've been referenced)
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
oh duh The Master
actually they've had the Sontarans but haven't actually mentioned the Rutan, have they?
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
Sensorites - one of the Good stories talks about the Sense-sphere.
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
you know drs daughter wasn't nearly so bad on rewatching. ood was only middling. i am quite the heretic on season finales tho - I've disliked all moffs finales, quite liked flying-magic-space-jesus dr season 2, and thoroughly enjoyed journey's end ;-)
other continuity monsters mentioned in passing as well as sensorites - ice warriors, nimon
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
Journey's End = FUCK YOU FOREVER, RTD. I will never forgive what he did to Donna, marrying her off to some random dude and giving her a lottery ticket doesn't make up for having her mind wiped.
― NR’s resident heavy-metal expert (Nicole), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
tbh I thought the tragedy of Donna's fate and the danger if she ever rediscovered who The Doctor was, even though her mother and grandfather knew, was very strong storytelling
like, I hated that it happened because the evolution of Donna as a character was amazing, but it made narrative sense and was a semi-satisfying story (I agree the marriage was a little "um waht")
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
yeah Midnight/Turn Left is probably nu-Who's most satisfying 1-2 punch
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP)
Human Nature/Blink? Or does that count as a 1-2-3?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
Recurring classic enemies who have yet to be properly revived by my count: Ice Warriors, Sea Devils, Yetis, Rani
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
well, "Blink" wasn't really tied to "Human Nature"/"The Family of Blood" at all so I'd say the actual 1-2 is HN/FOB, which I'd already read as a New Adventure and found more satisfying as a book than television episodes aside from the addition of ppl discounting Martha due to her race and her reactions to that
I think that the Sea Devils fall under the Silurian general banner
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:50 (eleven years ago) link
Were the any more major differences in the novel?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 10 September 2012 19:54 (eleven years ago) link
"Good" should have been "Ood", obviously.
The Ice Warriors get talked about in Waters of Mars.The Face of Boe supposedly comes from the Isop Galaxy, where the Web Planet is set.Rutans are mentioned in the Sontaran story (NB may be SJA)Jamie gets a mention in Tooth & Claw because it's in ScotlandAxons died in the Time WarCalufrax is one of the missing planets in The Stolen Earth (I'm sure)In the Idiot's Lantern the Doctor on the antenna says "oh no, not again" ergo LogopolisTime Crash refers to a lot of the Wet Vet eraIn Dalek, the Cyberman head is from Attack of the CybermenDaemos (from the Daemons) is referred to in The Satan pit, as is SutekhThe Stolen Earth talks about the Dalek bomb in the centre of the Earth from DIoEThe drill in The Stolen Earth is what happens in InfernoThe spaceship in the Beast Below is menaced by solar flares at the same time as the Nerva Beacon TrilogyMatt Smith's fez is from The Silver Nemesis
There are more, I'm sure
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
These links have a good rundown of the differences between the book and the two-parter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Nature_%28Doctor_Who_episode%29#Comparison_with_the_novelhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_of_Blood#Comparison_with_the_novel
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, the Alliance in The Pandorica Opens includes:
CheloniansDraconiansDrahvinsNesteneTereleptilsZygons
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
We could go through a big list of everyone who's received a passing mention but I was more talking about adversaries who actually appeared on the show. Also, the Nestene Consciousness was in "Rose" and should be covered by "Autons"
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
(btw I do think HN/FOB was very good, my issue was that I basically knew the story already, having read the book multiple times, and its rewriting as a Martha story basically renders the entirety of the Virgin/BBC New Adventures era an extended alternative universe, which bums me out because Benny, Chris, Roz, Fitz and Compassion were all awesome)
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:09 (eleven years ago) link
I thought you might say that, but I am watching the Vengeance On Varos remaster thus I win.
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:13 (eleven years ago) link
I can't really argue against that
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
It really is great, the Arak/Etta stuff is superb and The Doctor is about to die for the second time.
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:29 (eleven years ago) link
season 22 is super underrated, I think because everyone only remembers "Timelash"
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
Peri has just been turned into a bird, real-time followers.
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
I'm trying to think of which companions got tortured the most/had the shittiest existences; the top five may be Adric, Peri, Jack, Turlough and Rory? (I know Katarina was blown out of an airlock and Sara Kingdom aged to death but, having never seen their stories, I don't know if there was a ton of torture before their deaths)
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
Ian could be a reasonable shout. Grew up during The Blitz, GOT HIT BY A DALEK RAY AND SURVIVED, survived being the cause of the Big Bang (take that, Adric), faced execution for murder, faced execution for murder and survived it by becoming a gladiator, was a slave who escaped and saw time as a gladiator, staked out in the desert and smeared with honey to attract ants, chose to leave the Doctor using a botched Dalek time ship that he had no idea would work.
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Monday, 10 September 2012 20:50 (eleven years ago) link
actually maybe I'm misremembering but wasn't Steven Taylor's entire reason for existing to give the writers someone to torture rather than the cute girl or the old man?
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
I'm trying to think of which companions got tortured the most/had the shittiest existences; the top five may be Adric, Peri, Jack, Turlough and Rory?
Jack seems to be into the torture so does it really count if the person enjoys it?
― NR’s resident heavy-metal expert (Nicole), Monday, 10 September 2012 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
Steven suffers a bit in The Myth Makers (gets stabbed and has bllod poisoning) but apart from that his worst fate is having to sing repeatedly in The Gunfighters.
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Monday, 10 September 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
okay so Steven and Dodo should both be counted for having to suffer through The Gunfighters
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Monday, 10 September 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
Can you really not suspend your disbelief about that stuff while watching a FAMILY SHOW ABOUT A TIME-TRAVELLING ALIEN?
this times a billion
― * The "no hands" rule can be compared to socialist tax policies (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 10 September 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
Hey, I saw the Doctor get himself out of space in Four To Doomsday by throwing a cricket ball against a spaceship and using his own energy to propel himself.. I said I was being deliberately cranky for laffs.
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Monday, 10 September 2012 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
Also, doesn't it imply that the Silurians detected Adric's spaceship, filled their own spaceship with dinosaurs, launched it and put themselves in suspended animation in deep caves in Derbyshire in less time than The Doctor could tear his eyes off the TARDIS scanner and save his bestest E-Space mate.
To be a nerd about this, the reason the Silurians all went into suspended animation was because of the arrival of the Moon, which in the Who universe appeared from deep space during dinosaur times and fell into orbit, rather than crashing into the planet as the Silurians had expected: because the diaster they expected never happened, they never got automatically woken up when things returned to normal. The Adric shuttle which killed the dinosaurs happened later on.
― computers are the new "cool tool" (James Morrison), Monday, 10 September 2012 23:34 (eleven years ago) link
despite my disdain for fanny obsession with detail, this post delighted me more than you can possibly imagine
― * The "no hands" rule can be compared to socialist tax policies (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 00:09 (eleven years ago) link
The best thing about the Doctor apparently being thought dead/forgotten/deleted from all databases = no more Jesus Doctor. Thank fuck.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 10:38 (eleven years ago) link
'despite my disdain for fanny obsession'
― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 10:52 (eleven years ago) link
good lord
― * The "no hands" rule can be compared to socialist tax policies (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:08 (eleven years ago) link
fwiw I'm watching the start of series 23 and remembering how great c baker was (yes I'm serious)
― * The "no hands" rule can be compared to socialist tax policies (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:10 (eleven years ago) link
I don't believe you.
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:41 (eleven years ago) link
Anyway, er -- how?
By the same token I watched a couple old Sylvester McCoys and I'm not sure I totally agree the against-the-grain reading of McCoy as a "good actor with bad scripts". He's totally panto.
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:43 (eleven years ago) link
you caaaan't
put meeee
on trial
― * The "no hands" rule can be compared to socialist tax policies (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:44 (eleven years ago) link
xp yes, mccoy was astoundingly weak
c baker's character might have been a bit… off, but he had the chops
― * The "no hands" rule can be compared to socialist tax policies (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:46 (eleven years ago) link
He rose to panto when required, which was more often than not (see: bad scripts).
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:47 (eleven years ago) link
But it's important to remember that he's the definitive Doctor, by which I mean he's definitely the one I started watching.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:48 (eleven years ago) link
I still quite like mccoy's doctor, but his 'acting' was never much more than turning up and being conscious, despite his best efforts
― * The "no hands" rule can be compared to socialist tax policies (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:50 (eleven years ago) link
Season 23 - love Mysterious Planet, really like Vervoids (it's easy to imagine it as a Hinchcliffe era TB story, like a more Agatha Christie Robots of Death) and my only real problem with Mindwarp is that the Brian Blessed/Peri plot is totally unbelievable. I don't really get the point of the Ultimate Foe, but the overall Trial story (even though it makes no real sense) needs closing out.
McCoy's last series is the one where I'll stand by good actor/bad scripts. Although bizarrely they're the ones with good plots too, but still bad scripts.
― passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 12:34 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not sure I totally agree the against-the-grain reading of McCoy as a "good actor with bad scripts". He's totally panto.
This is how I felt as well, but I have to say I quickly got fed up with the stories with him in it available through Netflix -- there might be some great performances I missed but I thought he was pretty meh.
― NR’s resident heavy-metal expert (Nicole), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 12:35 (eleven years ago) link
quite honestly, the more ridiculous his stories, the better McCoy comes across; I still think "Paradise Towers" is one of the best from his run
― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 12:41 (eleven years ago) link
I really loved Paradise Towers when I was nine.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 13:44 (eleven years ago) link