RFI: UK Immigration Policy

From the Guardian comments thread:

UKBA decision is callous in the the extreme to existing non EU students who now have only 60 days to find somewhere to finish their studies. For home/EU students it could mean that some courses have insufficient students to continue.

In the 60 days, a student has to find the tuition fees (11k +) for a new university, at least £2000 of maintenance money, deposit it in a valid bank account for 28 days. They have to secure a place at another university, get a valid CAS and English certificate. Note many B2 English certificates expire after 2 years, so someone who would be entering their 3rd year of a course, certificate may have expired. Some universities are allowed to make their own assessment, but UKBA prefer their approved ones. Submit a valid visa application, best to do an in person application at £768, because if start another course whilst your visa is being processed you do so at your own risk. Some universities/colleges don't even allow you to start without holding a valid visa for their institution. Current in country visa applications can take in excess of 3 months to be processed.

Oh and by the way it is less than one month before most university terms start. Many non EU students may have already paid this coming year tuition fees to London Met, as they offered a discount for early payment in full. So let's hope London Met can refund those fees promptly.

ffs

London Met has long been a basket case, so though sad for everyone concerned, this isn't very surprising. It sounds to me like they've got serious problems managing student data- see for example this from 2009: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7853203.stm

That said, the Home Office's heavy handed and counter-productive attitude towards overseas students, stemming from Tory paranoia about immigration, is the root cause of the problem.

London Met certainly has problems. They blame a lot of them on the previous management administration, but it's clear that there were ongoing issues. This is a spectacularly cruel way to treat international students, though, most of whom will have their paperwork in order.

It's not even paranoia, it's policy. The government has said that it's going to cut net immigration from the "hundreds of thousands" to the "tens of thousands". Literally the only way they can do this is to turn away legitimate students who are contributing billions to the economy and propping up large numbers of universities. It's madness. Green is too stubborn to support the change in designation of temporary students so they don't count as immigrants. Willetts apparently support this.

Agreed on both points.

Here's more on bad stuff happening at London Met, something close to my heart as a librarian: http://doombrarian.wordpress.com/2012/08/21/do-you-want-outsourcing-with-that-london-met-to-sell-off-support-and-library-services/

Yeah, that was interesting. Seen by many as a first step towards something much bigger:

http://www.wonkhe.com/2012/08/23/london-met-outsourcing-or-something-else/

ugh. Presumably the holding company will be exempt from providing all those extraneous luxuries such as HE payscales, pensions etc.

It's going to be a real challenge for LMU to continue in its current guise, i think. They're at least £30m down in student fees and could face significant legal action. Even if they get their license back in six months' time, their brand reputation will have been destroyed. Of course, this doesn't just affect the current students, it is going to reflect badly on anyone who holds one of their degrees or will do in the future. They're probably big enough so survive but i wouldn't rule out a change of name and management. It might be a risky, but potentially opportune, time for someone to look at privatisation.

I haven't had a proper look at the stats yet but it looked to me like the home office figures were showing a drop of 50,000 in net immigration and a drop of 112,000 in student visas granted.

Tempted to start a rolling international education thread but this will do for now. Expect the Panorama show on Monday about visa fraud to have a pretty significant impact on short term policy wrt student migration.

What's your background/current situtation, SV, if you don't mind saying? (can't remember if you're an "international" student or if you work in HE)

Neither, as such. I work for a big education company that provides a lot of products and services to students, HE institutions, etc.

Mark Harper, the immigration minister responsible for the Go Home racist vans, has resigned after being found to have employed an undocumented cleaner.

Haha! That's priceless.

I'd be interested in that thread, ShariVari! I am an academic in les É tats-Unis but I am heading back to Olde Gaule later this year for another extended stint over there. there's a lot of consolidation of French universities going on right now, and the one at which I'll be ensconced is one of the newest, and largest, of the new fusions.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/24/english-language-tests-cheating-results-invalid-overseas-students

3 universities and 57 FE colleges have had their overseas student licences suspended. In theory up to 50,000 people could be deported if still in the UK, though that's unlikely.

Christ. Had heard rumours today and were wondering which Unis they'd turn out to be...

May be more to come...

Immigration minister James Brokenshire

omg

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/18/border-police-arrest-cleaner-mark-harper-immigration-isabella-acevedo

Two days after Harper got a new government post.

The lack of compassion shown by border police is pretty disgusting. So is the reappointment of Harper, really.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2014/12/02/without-due-process-how-britain-deported-50-000-students

I know that people who had taken TOEIC to support a visa application were given an opportunity to take an alternative test if their application was still being processed.

If the article is correct, it looks like they've identified entire cohorts of test takers as fraudulent and are using that identification to automatically invalidate any visas that were granted prior to the scandal breaking, though. How watertight that identification is, i don't know though. The structure of the cheating would have made it impossible for anyone in the room to have been unaware / complicit in most cases but i'd assume that proving it on a case by case basis for 29k-50k people would be tricky.

*unaware / not complicit*

How watertight that identification is, i don't know though.

Not at all, there won't even be any grounds for suspicion in most cases - this is just a bullshit pretext to game the figures, because who gives a fuck about immigrants getting deported lol

It's relatively easy to identify testing centres that were providing fraudulent exams and also possible to identify who took tests at those centres and when. The way most of the the cheating was organised would have meant that anyone who wasn't paying the premium for a guaranteed pass wouldn't have been allowed in the room. On the balance of probabilities, the bulk of the people they've identified are likely to have cheated but that's a fair way from proving it beyond a reasonable doubt.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/foreign-students-could-be-sent-home-before-applying-for-work-visas-to-cut-immigration-9938145.html

Looks like nuisance value rather than anything else - foreign graduates would have to go abroad to submit applications for UK work visas rather than being able to do it while in the UK. I think many have to do so already though. The interesting bit is buried:

Mrs May is also pressing for the power to be able to penalise colleges and universities that would have low success rates in ensuring the departure of foreign graduates and to deprive them of their right to sponsor overseas students, the source added.

So not only would universities be responsible for monitoring the whereabouts of their students while they are studying, they would be responsible for ensuring that they left the country after they graduated.

There's more coming before the election. Expect the sector to be up in arms.

Sigh

Remarkable stroke of luck that the Saville report and the name of the British ISIS dude were both released on the same morning as the immigration statistics.

And the government's response is to...further restrict the rules around student visas.

I was a bit "eh was Seville an immigrant" for a sec there tbh

(xp) ... and blame the EU (though the biggest increase in immigration was in non-EU nationals) and the Lib Dems (get used to this line, you'll be hearing it a lot).

Was it luck?

re becoming a UK citizen:

One referee should be a person of any nationality who has professional standing, eg minister of religion, civil servant, or a member of a professional body e.g. accountant or solicitor (who is not representing you with this application).

WTF is this bullshit. What if you don't personally know any so-called "professional" people?

Thought this was going to be a bump about Nigel Farage wanting to do away with anti-discrimination laws...

my dentist counter-signed my passport application.

here's a list of suggestions:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/british-citizenship/british-passport-application-who-can-countersign-t53718.html

what about this section:

they have known the applicant personally for more than 3 years; • they are willing to give full details of their knowledge of the applicant;

seems like a dentist might have issues with this.

I would guess that virtually everyone will know at least one of a doctor, teacher, dentist or pharmacist on a purely professional basis but that's very different from knowing them personally for more than three years, if only because GPs and teachers move around so much.

(And I'm guessing this is written for people who have been legally resident in the country for a while, I may be wrong)

Well exactly. Even if you've been in the country for 11 years that doesn't mean you're friends with doctors and dentists! Is this just another way of keeping out working class people or something?

public librarians are happy to sign these kind of things, by and large

public librarians are happy to lie on official forms that they have known someone personally for 3 years? Fair enough, but you'd think the £5000 fine would put them off.

This isn't for a passport application btw, it is for a citizenship application, hence being on the UK immigration thread.

ah sorry, advice rescinded then

the dentist was really my only hope - i was registered at a doctor's surgery but would see a different doctor every time i went. whereas i had seen the same dentist at least once every 6 months for 8 years so...

the 'personally' thing depends on what you mean by 'personally'. i was a person to him, not just a name, not an unknown person asking for his signature. he had my address on file, i'd paid bills... and i'm sure he'd've refused if he didn't feel he could vouch for me.

yah can see how this would be tough. Last time I had to re-apply for my airport airside pass I thought I'd never get it because they needed a friend who wasn't a relative to assert that you were of good character and that they had known you for over 2 years. I don't have any actual friends so got a co-worker (who I never see socially) to vouch for me. They were a bit iffy about accepting this tbh. If I had to produce a professional that I'd known for 3 years I would have zero chance, as I don't know or have contact with any.

Also idly wondering what percentage of non-EU immigrants would know a religious leader well. Disproportionate to the rest of the country I'd imagine?

The irony is we're only doing this so we can get out of this shithole country, but not have a load of hassle if we decide we want to move back at some point.

the 'personally' thing depends on what you mean by 'personally'. i was a person to him, not just a name, not an unknown person asking for his signature. he had my address on file, i'd paid bills... and i'm sure he'd've refused if he didn't feel he could vouch for me.

― koogs, Thursday, March 12, 2015 2:03 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is what I meant by my librarian suggestion- if you've been a member of a public library for a number of years then that is probably good enough for most purposes, though citizenship applications might be tougher/more rigorous. In any case a librarian in a public library would be likely to help you find out exactly what the criterion implies. Or maybe go to the CAB.

Poo, you should have webmail.

Cheers Aldo, I replied on FB

Just wanted to mention how much I enjoyed receiving an email from "the bowels are not what they seem" to my Colonel Poo email account.

You need to do this to buy premiums bonds as well see days, it's a massive pain in the neck.

At least an American won't have to do a language test on top of everything else.

Do you really? I was about to buy some premium bonds, luckily my friends are middler-classier than me.

Henry Dimbleby (Leon owner) is the child of which newscaster, again?

My Spanish isn't so hot but I'm pretty sure Leon isn't mentioned in there.

This isn't really the right thread for this but close enough.

My uncle is dying of cancer. Probably talking days left. He was living in Thailand but came back to go into hospital as he had no medical insurance there. His partner of 10 years is a Thai citizen, and we want to get him over here so they can be together for the last time, but he needs a Visa to enter the UK and it seems to take 3 months which we don't have. We think there is some kind of fast track way to get around this but I don't know how this stuff works and there seems to be a lot of dubious websites offering Visa services and I don't know if they are trustworthy or this is even possible. We're not really talking immigration because he just wants to be able to visit for a couple of weeks.

Long shot maybe but any ideas ILX?

Is your uncle a British citizen?

Yes

VFS runs visa processing for the UK in Thailand and I think they offer a priority service. That should be the first place you look. A visa consulting agency will typically only make sure you have all your documents in order and won't necessary speed things up otherwise.

May also be a long shot but there wouldn't be any harm in calling the British Embassy in Bangkok and explaining the situation to see if they have any emergency options.

OK, thanks SV - VFS is the main one we've been looking at but like I said not sure if these kinds of things are just scams or not. They do have a priority service for £750. Says it's for medical emergencies in the family tho and not sure if an unmarried gay relationship is gonna count for that :(

We've tried ringing the Thai embassy here in case they know anything but they're closed til Monday.

I think my uncle's partner has been in touch with an embassy or consulate in Chiang Mai, my mum drafted up a letter over email explaining the circumstances for him to give them.

VFS is the official processing partner of the embassy. They are the same people you go to if you want a Russian or Indian visa in the UK. They're usually very good.

Great, thanks. Feel more at ease we're looking in the right place now.

Good luck.

UK asylum refusal decision: 'Your strong attachment to your Islamic faith is inconsistent with your claim to use lesbian dating sites ...'

https://twitter.com/Paul_Dillane/status/763326753595133954

The treatment of LGBT asylum applicants is one of the great, under-reported scandals.

awful