Nominations for an 80s Albums That Rock Poll(inc indie/Alt,punk,metal,heavy/glam etc) CLOSES SUNDAY NIGHT 11:59 p.m. UK

if y'all are still taking noms:
Nuclear Assault - Game Over
Stretchheads - Five Fingers, Four Thingers...
Caroliner Rainbow Hernia Milk Queen - Rear End Hernia Puppet Show
Caroliner Rainbow Stewed Angel Skins - I'm Armed With Quarts of Blood
Pussy Galore - Right Now!
David Thomas and the Pedestrians - The Sound of the Sand
Dog Faced Hermans Every Day Timebomb

yep,thanks!

bump

and again

Destruction - Eternal Devastation

Any more?

I think I'm done w/the albums, but I prob. have a few more tracks to add before Sat. (so plz don't close the poll early)

oh
rollins band - do it
nomeansno - you kill me

"hesher music" as enjoyed by a drug-addled metalhead with a taste for arty extremes

I was idly thinking that this could be seen perhaps as a sort of 'rock' that can be traced back to roots in Who/Kinks/Cream/Hendrix/Zeppelin/Sabbath as opposed to the traditional canon that would also include Buddy Holly, Dylan, the Byrds, the Band, (Beatles and Stones even?), etc. I think the noise and improv elements still make sense in this context.

If we're talking about why, say, Springsteen is excluded, though, then you would also have say that this is all to the exclusion of the historical lineage from the Brill Building and Phil Spector. If you frame it as "Buddy Holly, Dylan, the Byrds, the Band," I suppose it makes it seem like it's the soft stuff that's being excluded as precedents, but it seems to me that it's also Roy Orbison, Del Shannon, Bobby Fuller, etc.

I think we're basically talking about "hard rock" and its various offshoots. Wikipedia describes it pretty well:

Hard rock is a form of loud, aggressive rock music. The electric guitar is often emphasised, used with distortion and other effects, both as a rhythm instrument using repetitive riffs with a varying degree of complexity, and as a solo lead instrument.[2] Drumming characteristically focuses on driving rhythms, strong bass drum and a backbeat on snare, sometimes using cymbals for emphasis.[3] The bass guitar works in conjunction with the drums, occasionally playing riffs, but usually providing a backing for the rhythm and lead guitars.[4] Vocals are often growling, raspy, or involve screaming or wailing, sometimes in a high range, or even falsetto voice.[5] Hard rock has sometimes been labelled cock rock for its emphasis on overt masculinity and sexuality and because it has historically been predominately performed and consumed by men: in the case of its audience, particularly white, working-class adolescents.[3]

I still think the distinctions are more sociological than that. Like Buddy Holly is out but Carl Perkins is in because he sounds like more of a hillbilly. Doesn't have anything to do with how rocking their records are.

Perkins has more of a blues-influence I think. Hard rock has more of the blues, soft rock is more influenced by folk.

Perkins probably has more blues AND more country than Holly - so what? Holly is excluded for being more of an innovator? His records are just as rocking as Perkins', perhaps more. And they are based in blues and country, not in folk.

(Obviously, he made a couple of pop recordings with an arranger also. I'm talking about the Crickets records.)

A reminder that Buddy Holly is not actually being excluded but is not present because he was not alive or recording music in the 1980s...

I'm not that familiar with Holly to tell the truth. If he's more blues-oriented then I think he's in that lineage too.

and carl perkins is more of a line-straddler anyway. i'd frame it as buddy holly vs. chuck berry & jerry lee lewis, both of whom rock in a much more aggressive fashion.

Of '80s artists, I think someone like John Cougar Mellencamp, whom I mentioned before, is a borderline case. Clearly he had pop crossover appeal, but he also rocked pretty emphatically and had a strong blues influence. So I'm not sure what the call would be on him. Or Bon Jovi for that matter.

like, it's not just rocking vs not, the vibe being put across is important, too. at their most extreme, berry & lewis made raw, aggressive and libidinal music. it still sounds like bombs going off. maybe it's hard to hear the connection today, but i think of "great balls of fire" as the first punk rock song i ever really loved. there wasn't wasn't as much visceral threat or sexual swagger in buddy holly's rock.

I don't hear Chuck Berry as being much more aggressive than Holly. Bo Diddley certainly wasn't!

Yeah, the vocals are important. They should swagger a bit. Frank Sinatra could be pretty punk rock too.

subjective, of course. i do. (xp)

same probably applies to mellcamp and bon jovi. the sense of danger and violence in their music is very tame down compared with the metal, punk and hard rock of the era.

I'm not sure I agree. Some of the more extreme bands end up trying too hard, IMO. They sound more cartoonish than actually dangerous.

The criteria do largely seem sonic to me but I'm pretty sure that framing it in terms of whether or not something 'rocks' will only lead us in circles. I do think that the bands I listed make sense as reference points in terms of prior influences/sources. I don't know that as much can be gained by tracing it back to the 50s, actually. (I can see a line from Who/Hendrix to Sonic Youth without too much difficulty but it gets blurrier if we start talking about Buddy Holly vs Chuck Berry.)

xposts

I AM very surprised that someone wouldn't hear Chuck Berry's sound as more aggressive than Buddy Holly's though!

The thing is, the Gories are allowed in the poll and the Jam are not.

I don't hear Chuck Berry as being much more aggressive than Holly. Bo Diddley certainly wasn't!

holly was ingratiating. he asked for a lady's hand and heart. he was nice about it, for the most part. he didn't often attack the beat with the ferocity that berry brings to "maybelline" and "johnny b. goode". he didn't sing about his ding-a-ling. he didn't wear a cobra snake for a necktie.

"Johnny B. Goode" hangs back in the pocket, I think. It's not that aggressive. "Maybellene" is jaunty.

I think Holly made some pretty tough rockabilly with numbers like "That'll Be the Day" and "Oh Boy."

To get technical, Berry's guitar style also emphasized parallel motion (even in lead playing) with an overdriven sound, which you can see as a direct antecedent of power-chord riffing.

I was idly thinking that this could be seen perhaps as a sort of 'rock' that can be traced back to roots in Who/Kinks/Cream/Hendrix/Zeppelin/Sabbath as opposed to the traditional canon that would also include Buddy Holly, Dylan, the Byrds, the Band, (Beatles and Stones even?), etc. I think the noise and improv elements still make sense in this context.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, August 23, 2012 1:15 PM (1 hour ago)

sund4r otm. also that it's probably a mistake to get caught up in hashing out the rockingness of 50s shit. the vision of rock that organizes this poll does seem descended from the late 60s and especially the 70s: a combination of masculinity, aggression, intensity, noise, experimentation, and aspiration to the status of art.

plus 70s punk + 80s metal

But, really, if you hear "Oh Boy" as equally or more aggressive than "Johnny B. Goode", I'm not sure how to convince you tbh.

xpost to self

Part of my point was that 70s punk and 80s metal BOTH seem to owe something to the influences I cited.

yeah, agree - was just extending forward from the late 60s/early-mid 70s examples

I think "Johnny B. Goode" is fairly subtle, really. He plays muted rhythm guitar, it hangs back in the pocket, etc. I mean, sure, there's some raunch in the leads. The Crickets had some raunch as well.

He projects more as a singer, too.

(Berry, that is.)

In any case, contenderizer was right re what I was getting at:

also that it's probably a mistake to get caught up in hashing out the rockingness of 50s shit. the vision of rock that organizes this poll does seem descended from the late 60s and especially the 70s: a combination of masculinity, aggression, intensity, noise, experimentation, and aspiration to the status of art

Comparing the versions of "Brown Eyed Handsome Man" by Berry and Holly is interesting, by the way. There doesn't seem to be any notable distinction with regard to how much either version rocks. Berry sings it with more of a croon, actually, while Holly has his rockabilly singing style. Berry's version swings a little more, but Holly's is faster.

hehe what a strange diversion

bump

closes sunday night 11.59pm now. if a kindly mod could change both thread titles that would be awesome.

You want it changed from midnight to 11:59 p.m.?

yes please! Just so everyone knows it finishes sat night now instead of sunday morning.

Thanks very much WmC and sorry to be a nuisance

sunday night it finishes now i mean haha

Current thread title is "Sunday night midnight" -- you want a one minute change?

A whole minute?

yes because it looked like it finished 24 hours earlier

thanks!

that's insane