Nominations for an 80s Albums That Rock Poll(inc indie/Alt,punk,metal,heavy/glam etc) CLOSES SUNDAY NIGHT 11:59 p.m. UK

yeah, but "rocks" can be defined any number of ways. it's not a term with an absolute, unchanging definition. shouldn't be too hard to adapt to the definition at work here, i don't think, even if it runs counter to your own.

I don't think the qualification for this poll has anything to do with whether something rocks, because obviously many things that rock have been disqualified. I think there is a certain sensibility that the organizers are after, but saying that something "rocks" doesn't really describe it at all.

It's called "80s Albums That Rock Poll."

May sort this out: What does it mean for a piece of music to "rock"?

but "rocks" can be defined any number of ways.

Well, there's debate about it, sure, but obviously we don't have to leave it completely open. I saw Swans live once and would have thought it unusual if I'd have heard someone talking about how much it rocked afterwards.

I mean, "to rock" doesn't really have any technical meaning afaik (even in the way that "to swing" does) so I can't really get too worked up about that particular issue, even if I do think there are questions to be raised about for this poll.

That was mangled "... there are questions that could be raised about this poll"

Also, tbh, I've loved 80s REM since first hearing them at 10 but I've personally never thought of them as a hard-rocking band in any case so fixating on them in particular can seem a little curious.

like personally, for me, the term "rocks" should be reserved for upbeat, aggressive, and somewhat pop-minded stuff that falls somewhere along this line:

chuck berry/jerry lee lewis --> sonics/star club beatles --> ramones/dolls/motorhead --> nirvana/white stripes

like hitting hard, moving fast, getting people up on their feet, and wrecking the room in a more-or-less accessible fashion. not too light to cause damage, but not too heavy to maneuver quickly.

that definition definitely excludes dark & arty weirdness like swans, flowers of romance and this heat, but it also excludes a lot of superheavy and thrashy shit that seems far too harsh and generally uncatchy to really rock properly, imo. nor is it too friendly toward the kinder, gentler stuff tim is advocating for. but try to set my prejudices aside for this poll, cuz i'm not in the driver's seat.

It's called "80s Albums That Rock Poll."

FYI, the track poll is called "the most rockingest tracks of the 1980s". I can agree that R.E.M. are a rock band, but they are certainly not among "the most rockingest" bands of the 80s. Also, AG states in the opening that he's looking for albums/tracks at the "rockier end of indie/Alternative rock."

seriously, what is your opinion of R.E.M.? would you honestly say that they're one of the most rocking bands of the 80s? and do you just want the band to be included in the poll, or are you looking for recognition that they're a heavy rock band? what exactly are you looking for?

I'm looking for more nominations and participants!! haha

Enjoying the discussion though. It's interesting.

that he's looking for albums/tracks at the "rockier end of indie/Alternative rock."

Sure, but that's the very thing we've been debating and the discussion has encompassed many bands nominated.

Sure, but that's the very thing we've been debating and the discussion has encompassed many bands nominated.

you haven't answered the question. what is your opinion of R.E.M.?

some of these criteria of rock put 'radio free europe' well ahead of 'back in black'

i think that discussion may be more suited for the tracks poll.

lol

This discussion has made me realize that I actually think it's awesome that AG has made up his own genre and is polling it.

Nah that would put me in the same league as Chuck. I'm not worthy.

I can agree that the meaning of "rock" isn't self-evident or unchanging. you know, one of the ironies of this discussion is that many of the heavy "arty" bands like Sonic Youth and Swans did not consider themselves rock bands and in fact vehemently denied that they were such. iirc, a number of punk and postpunk bands explicitly claimed to be "anti-rock". again, this is a sort of tension in the poll between how bands were seen in their historical context and how they're viewed now. a lot of the discussion then, however, was wrapped up in the very tired and stereotypical rock cliches that were still being aggressively peddled by mainstream rock bands.

tracks poll has way more noms than albums poll btw.
I suggest you all look through your record/cd/mp3 collections and find stuff that you would want to vote for just to avoid "oh noone nominated...."

hellhouse please tell me who you previously posted as! i cant work it out.

Naw, I'm into it. And I vote to leave pop metal in.

3xpost

How about if I answer your second question, which was a little more specific?

would you honestly say that they're one of the most rocking bands of the 80s?

Occasionally, yes, but maybe not according to the way that you framed it - records where "our fondness for them has everything to do with how much they rock." That strikes me as a bit of a tall order. Not everyone's going to be voting for Motorhead or something and most of the records on the list add something else to the equation.

"hesher music" seems like a good enough proxy for rock that would comfortably exclude REM, if that's the goal.

tim im quite happy for rem's rockiest tracks to be nominated in the tracks poll. But none of the 'big' songs seem appropriate. But im sure there will be suitable 'deep cuts' that qualify. If they dont then others will point it out.

hesheris an american term not used here but doesn't it just mean metal? because this is not a metal poll.

i think there's definitely a metal leaning but i feel like a hesher's spiral-bound notebook would also have zeppelin, ac/dc logos on it in ball point pen along with some dragons or a barbarian with a mace.

It's kind of a metal poll in the Stairway to Hell way.

xpost

Definition of a 'rocking' band: One that might conceivably have done a "Johnny B Goode" cover version.

So, that even includes the Sex Pistols, by default.

like the closest an REM album cover comes to dragons or mace-wielding barbarians is monster, which is appropriately their most "rocking" album?

yeah but a lot would say their worst

Occasionally, yes, but maybe not according to the way that you framed it - records where "our fondness for them has everything to do with how much they rock." That strikes me as a bit of a tall order. Not everyone's going to be voting for Motorhead or something and most of the records on the list add something else to the equation.

how do R.E.M. rock in ways which have not been framed? also, this "tall order" is IMO the premise of the poll. and, yes, I agree that many of the bands add something else; often this something else takes the form of conceptual/creative aggression. that is to say, many of the "arty" bands in this list are aggressively, even violently, pushing against conventional rock forms, which is in and of itself scans as a "rock" gesture (aggressive anti-rock as rock, with Neubauten probably being the best example of a band that "rocks" in this fashion, although their inclusion, with a few notable exceptions, admittedly stretches the definition of rock being used).

Fables of the Reconstruction has a burning book and a weird swinging object with the image of an ear on it behind a curtain.

ok if hellhouse wont say who he is i just have to assume hes BJO

how do R.E.M. rock in ways which have not been framed?

No, I was just saying that their music is never rock in a really black and white sense, but that that's also true of most artists on the poll.

conceptual/creative aggressive that is employed sonically.

ugh, "aggression" not "aggressive", fuck it, I need a break.

Watching Patti Smith (band) on Rockpalast, rightnow.

They rocking band, question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-IGFv-knI

"hesher music" seems like a good enough proxy for rock that would comfortably exclude REM, if that's the goal.

― Philip Nunez, Monday, August 20, 2012 3:56 PM (29 minutes ago)

doesn't really work here, cuz whatever definition we are using has to allow room for shit like swans, this heat, PIL, etc.

"hesher music" as enjoyed by a drug-addled metalhead with a taste for arty extremes

Definition of a 'rocking' band: One that might conceivably have done a "Johnny B Goode" cover version.

So, that even includes the Sex Pistols, by default.

― Mark G, Monday, August 20, 2012 4:02 PM (26 minutes ago)

this is pretty much my definition, sharpened to: "might conceivably have done a respectable 'johnny b goode' and have had it fit in comfortably with their own original material."

no embeds please
xps

ps tee-total non-drug taking metalhead with a taste for arty extremes here

dangit, sorry AG, i forgot

but it's pretty funny, so i'm only sort of sorry

well it stops others opening the thread who might nominate or want to take part in the discussion.

cursed tubes

always stopping all this discussion

its because on some computers the thread loads to slowly or crashes completely if there's lots of youtubes.