Pretend you have a ballot for the 2012 edition of Sight & Sound's top 10 movies of all time list

clemenza, do you have a polling numbers on that claim?

The problem is in the process. These are allegedly the choices of film scholars/lovers, and yet nearly all of them admit some artificial, arbitrary constraints they use to whittle their canons down a list of ten. So how does this produce a result that means something?

Do I have any actual evidence that the S&S poll encourages people to seek out these films? Of course not--no more than the many assertions you make on a daily basis here. (Oh, I get it--political junkie joke.) I will say this: years ago, based on a pretty good awareness of what I like and don't like, I decided that Jacques Tati wasn't really for me. But Playtime is screening here later in the month, and, because of the poll, I'm going to see it and try my best to be open-minded. It'll be my first Tati film.

As far as artificial and arbitrary constraints, I think it's a bad idea to start going down that road. I would prefer that everyone simply vote for their ten favourite films, and whatever the results are, that's what they are.

Truthfully, I doubt Bogdanovich would be saying anything if his own films did better in the poll.

you don't need numbers, it's pretty obvious that more people will see these films as a direct result of this poll. the numbers might be in the tens or the tens of thousands. does it really matter which?

Truthfully, I don't think Bogdanovich would consider any of his films to be among the 10 greatest. His ego doesn't outweigh his brains there.

I have no idea what my ten favorite films are.

Morbs, those "constraints" they claim are merely a way for critics to absolve themselves of the fact (borne out of the results) that films are demonstrably the most "dead white male" of all artistic mediums.

Also a way for belatedly rational people to talk themselves out of listing more than one screwball comedy in their top 10.

Bogdanovich's ego vs. Bogdanovich's brain--actually, Bogdanovich's ego vs. anything might be a rather lopsided contest. He probably doesn't consider any of his films to be among the 10 greatest, I agree but I bet he'd be a lot more tolerant of the poll if a few other people did. (Maybe The Last Picture Show did reel in a handful of votes, I don't know.)

that frosty look he gave you really hurt, huh?

If you take him at his word that he declined to vote -- and thus didn't know the results -- why wouldn't he have expected to react to it in one of his Indiewire pieces?

It's cute that Bogdanovich thinks everyone should have 1,300 favorite films.

Based on previous polls, I would think he'd have a pretty good idea by now that he doesn't fare well. But that's fine, maybe I'm stretching the point--maybe his qualms are 100% independent of his work. In any event, I think he's fretting and worrying over something needlessly; the poll is far and away a net plus when it comes to broadening awareness of film history.

Not to mention that it's fun to argue about the poll--see the three ILX threads, see the countless responses to the poll all over the internet, etc.

i knew a guy once who worked himself dutifully through AFI's top 100, a film at a time, reporting cheerfully on his progress the whole way. now he's educated! or is he.

I watched The Bad News Bears the other day cos of this poll

the poll is far and away a net plus when it comes to broadening awareness of film history

To be fair, I understand and empathize with the line of thinking that says S&S actually works toward a narrowing of film history awareness, not a broadening.

Meaning that instead of seeing this huge swath of films, people will limit themselves to the kinds of films that get listed (even if only on individual ballots) in the poll? I suppose that's the case with some people, but at a certain point, once you've found your way to something, I think it's up to the viewer to start to branch out. If I end up liking Playtime enough, I can almost guarantee I'll go on to see other Tati films.

it's fun to argue about the poll

FUN VS ENLIGHTENMENT

The two are not mutually exclusive, you know--I would think someone familiar with Sullivan's Travels (not to mention a million other things) would know that.

as with The General and Keaton, Playtime is in many ways Tati's most atypical film.

shit, clemenza, that's my point! Going down a list of 50 and 100 is overly circumscribed fun.

as is having 2 nearly identical presidential candidates...

You need a shock collar that zaps you when you get off the thread topic, Morbs.

Well, you've lost me. When they post individual ballots online, I'll be pouring over them and making note of things that intrigue me. If someone who lists Nashville and The 400 Blows also lists some documentary from the 1970s I've never heard of, that will catch my eye, and if I stumble over that film at the video store I go to, I'll pick it up. If this compromises some idealized world that you and Bogdanovich hold dear, so be it.

I'm sure u Canadians pour maple syrup on those lists, mmmm.

Individual ballots still more valuable than some aggregate of differing methodologies evened out.

Learn something new every day--I think I've been incorrectly using pour/pore in that context my whole life.

Eric, dead white males do very well in opera, too.

Individual ballots still more valuable than some aggregate of differing methodologies evened out.

No one ever argues against that and yet you (the royal "you") still say it over and over.

Morbs, so no year-end list for yoU?

the non-film nerds that i've spoken to about this poll ALWAYS say something like "I've never heard of any of them" - sometimes apologetically, sometimes angrily. so i wld like to think that a small number of ppl might just be intrigued enough to check out TOKYO STORY or whatever for the very first time - mission accomplished.

Eric: people here don't have to say it -- most of the Great Unwashed consulting this list are only gonna look at the group ranking.

(and think Ozau and Kurosawa are the only Japanese directors)

Mizoguchi is on there.

most of the Great Unwashed consulting this list are only gonna look at the group ranking.

Do you have polling numbers on that claim?

"The Great Unwashed"?--not that I don't have my own pockets of snobbishness, but that's a really unattractive thing to say. (Maybe it was meant ironically, I don't know.)

I thought I've made it clear that I am a misanthrope.

hardcore cineasts are more likely to be unwashed than the rest of the population but i don't have poling figures to back that up.

Cinemaniacs, specifically

clemenza: "always with a little humor"

I thought I've made it clear that I am a misanthrope.

Really, tho, how's that working out for you?

lol, jed_

Hard to say til I'm reincarnated.

unrecognized by S&S:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODjDz_6SWik

re the Great Unwashed:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/29346.html

always dug that version of 'scrooge.'

I watched and enjoyed Man with a Movie Camera the other day because it was on this list so thanks Sight and Sound voters, I guess

despite all the problems with lists like these, it was lists like these that got teenage me into really watching movies in the first place. They made me seek out stuff rather than just renting whatever they happened to have at the local video club or watching whatever was on tv. Really made me appreciate all this dead white male culture that existed before my time rather than restricting myself to alive white male culture like most of the people I knew.

i knew a guy once who worked himself dutifully through AFI's top 100, a film at a time, reporting cheerfully on his progress the whole way. now he's educated! or is he.

― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, August 10, 2012 4:27 PM (3 hours ago

i set out to do this as a teenager when the list first came out! i remember being so thrilled that 'kane' -- my fave film at the time -- topped the list. sadly, i never actually finished the list, and kind of lost heart when they redid the list a few years back and threw stuff like 'fellowship of the ring' in there.

somebody on Sl4nt picked Fellowship

haha i did a ballot for a top whatever of 2000-10 for i think it was stylus (but stylus folded well before 2010 so it may just have been for the private amusement of ex-stylusers) and my aggressive #1 was the extended edition of lotr as one giant 12-hour movie DON'T EVEN REGRET IT (altho wouldn't necessarily repeat it)

u r banned from all future polls, and Poland.

I first heard of L'atalante and The Rules of the Game by seeing them on the '92 S&S list, so, yeah, they worked for me as a young man.

DLH do you remember the rest of your list? i like the 'lotr' films well enough but i'd rather reread the books than revisit them.

despite all the problems with lists like these, it was lists like these that got teenage me into really watching movies in the first place

On one of the S&S threads, possibly this one, I posted about how much discovering the '72 list (five or so years later) affected me as a teenager.