TAKING SIDES: Steely Dan vs. The Circle Jerks

god wtf am I doing posting to an ILM thead that's not about carl craig or the YMO

at least it's comprehnsible

"all I could think of was "fuck both of 'em where's the fucking CLASH"

Steely Dan have been downhill since CBAT and especially Dirty Work"

tom you scored a o_O and a RONG therein two lines. congrats.

sorry I took the time to try and articulate a position other than "x sucks y is awesome" I forgot which board I was posting to

serves me right for slacking the last hour of my shift

fuck both of 'em where's the fucking THOMPSON TWINS?

that is more o_O than what I said

I never figured you for a clash hater. then again for all I know this is similar to your position re chuck taylor all stars

i like clash singles. i like the hits. i like steely dan WAY more than the clash though. no contest!

<i>I mean I guess I can appreciate that they seem to unabashedly embrace this "man I never can get laid without either paying for it or going down on some married fatty" aesthete</i>

i don't really get the having to pay for sex thing, they seem to live in a sort of weird woody allen movie type thing where i imagined they'd get all these hot looking girls even though they are weird studio muppet looking dudes.

but saying they've been downhill since DIRTY WORK? woah. that's kind of crazy to me...plus honestly I think the whole "OMG they are so subversive sicko dudes just wrapping it up in super gloss adult contempo" thing is kind of overrated to me...there's a TON of steely dan songs that seem really warm and even sad and great to me, not in a ironic or snarky way that they were really good at too, but stuff like "Dr. Wu" which I mentioned is really heartbreaking and if you don't find that melody line sort of affecting or "all night long we would sing that stupid song, and every word we sang i knew was true" then i guess i just don't know what you're hearing..."any world that i'm welcome to" seems really sad too, not just a character....or "any major dude will tell you" is world weary but he feels bad for the kid, what he/she's going to have to go through...

i mean i get what people mean by the sometimes amazing cruelty of their songs and the impressive, maybe coldness of especially the later record, but there's a lot of heart in there for me, i'm not just crushing on some (musically speaking) gorgeous chick that treats me like an asshole and won't return my calls.

**although all the comeback records, esp. two against nature, actually feel like the strawman steely dan people talk about, even though i like them anyway

FWIW the "steely dan are better than any band ever" thing on ILM is about as tiresome as the "its lush and has studio musicians and was on am in the 70's so it must be the suck" thing. im itching to take sides on the circle jerks, who i hate, just because 90% of posters are going to go with the dan on this one.

but yeah i mean in the end this is unfair. SD no fucking question.

and the clash are way better than the CJs and in my book as good as steely dan but i know ill take a hit for saying that.

I was really just saying Dirty Work is an awesome song, plus, not totally boring like tons of later stuff (to me)

maybe an element of creepiness is how dryly they sing everything? part of that overcontrol problem, it all begins to approach eagles-level soullessness at some points

magnificent seven is totally better than anything sd ever did. there.
I'll buy you a beer, max.

sorry I took the time to try and articulate a position other than "x sucks y is awesome" I forgot which board I was posting to

-- El Tomboto, Thursday, 15 November 2007 01:40

And good on you, but it hardly made sense, and otoh you write "good argument" when it's clear i'm not making an argument, just, y'know, tossing off a couple of lines at 2am. Admittedly i was kind of too incredulous to think of anything more.

I tend to give smart people who hate on the Dan the benefit of the doubt that they haven't actually listened to the albums (or only superficially so, in the backround or whatever).

"magnificent seven is totally better than anything sd ever did."

just listened to that 12-inch last week! i love that instrumental version.

i like steely dan & fleetwood mac just fine but the ilm "YOU'RE NOT ONE OF US" mindhive on these 2 bands is a bit tiring. almost as tiring as the xgau cult (r.i.p)

that said, steely dan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>the clash

oops, i just read max's post

"they'd get all these hot looking girls even though they are weird studio muppet looking dudes"

what about a gangbang?!
josie:

Were gonna break out the hats and hooters
When josie comes home
Were gonna rev up the motor scooters
When josie comes home to stay
Were gonna park in the street
Sleep on the beach and make it
Throw down the jam till the girls say when
Lay down the law and break it
When josie comes home

When josie comes home
So good
Shes the pride of the neighborhood
Shes the raw flame
The live wire
She prays like a roman
With her eyes on fire

Jo would you love to scrapple
Shell never say no
Shine up the battle apple
Well shake em all down tonight
Were gonna mix in the street
Strike at the stroke of midnight
Dance on the bones till the girls say when
Pick up whats left by daylight
When josie comes home

When josie comes home
So bad
Shes the best friend we ever had
Shes the raw flame
The live wire
She prays like a roman
With her eyes on fire

When josie comes home
So good
Shes the pride of the neighborhood
Shes the raw flame
The live wire
She prays like a roman
With her eyes on fire

Snore.

-- Alex in NYC, Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

Alex, all this would be much more effective if Orbit hadn't already done it three/four years ago. Go home to your wife and kids.

Circle Jerks: One really good, really short album (basically an EP). After that, who cares?

Steely Dan: way more than that.

And I kind of hate the Jerks' logo, actually.

No contest, but a fun one regardless.

"Steely Dan vs. Boney M."

This, though, is a contest. (And Steely Dan lose, by the way.)

Boney M doing an all Fagen-Becker covers album would have been pretty awesome, tho.

Has the ILM Steely Dan backlash started then?

the clash are way better than the CJs and in my book as good as steely dan

Also true.

magnificent seven is totally better than anything sd ever did.

Not true, but the Clash did way better stuff than "Maginificent Seven" (which I love regardless.)

Oh shit Alex got compared to Orbit

Go home to your wife and kids.

Go lick yourself where you shit. And my kids will scalp you and use your entrails as bath toys.

How did this thread get to be about the Clash?

Haha, I forgot about the Orbit attack:

aor at its most unimaginative...

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:17 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

look, they were studio dudes. there is a *reason* they were studio dudes. they lacked the imagination and spark to do anything truly great. they are an energyless study in basic competence.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:32 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

what is the difference between a musician and brilliant musician? a musician is "competent". a brilliant musician has a command of songwriting and a creative spark that goes beyond competence. LISTEN to Steely Dan for God's sake, how can you argue this?

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:43 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

uh, great tunes, witty lyrics?

-- mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:44 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

where?

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:44 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

Steely Dan fans are inexplicable to me. This is a mediocre band at best.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:48 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

In context, Steely Dan represented everything that punk stood against: major lable dinosaur limo-rock made by people who were technicians above feeling musicians. Jimi Hendrix has more in common with the Sex Pistols or the Clash than any of those do to Steely Dan. The music is STERILE, 70s coke-fueled self-indulgence and I have yet to find a single meaningful lyric in it.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:30 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

i am genuinely baffled.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Friday, February 13, 2004 2:41 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

Steely Dan are fucking awesome, btw; virtuosity combined with accessibility combined with just some flat-out genius. Aja is easily one of my favorite albums of all time.

I also don't get "cold and clinical" from them at all; most of their arrangements, while very precise, are also very warm and rich, particularly with the way various instrumental and vocal parts interweave and overlap ("Babylon Sisters" is a fantastic example of this).

Yeah good example, Dan. 'Babylon Sisters' is womb-like.

I just read the 33 1/3 book on 'Aja', which left me a bit disappointed.

aor at its most unimaginative...

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:17 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

look, they were studio dudes. there is a *reason* they were studio dudes. they lacked the imagination and spark to do anything truly great. they are an energyless study in basic competence.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:32 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

what is the difference between a musician and brilliant musician? a musician is "competent". a brilliant musician has a command of songwriting and a creative spark that goes beyond competence. LISTEN to Steely Dan for God's sake, how can you argue this?

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:43 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

uh, great tunes, witty lyrics?

-- mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:44 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

where?

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:44 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

Steely Dan fans are inexplicable to me. This is a mediocre band at best.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:48 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

In context, Steely Dan represented everything that punk stood against: major lable dinosaur limo-rock made by people who were technicians above feeling musicians. Jimi Hendrix has more in common with the Sex Pistols or the Clash than any of those do to Steely Dan. The music is STERILE, 70s coke-fueled self-indulgence and I have yet to find a single meaningful lyric in it.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:30 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

i am genuinely baffled.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Friday, February 13, 2004 2:41 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

BUT YOU KNOW WHATS GREAT?! HEROIN!

Dan OTM. And I really can't think of anybody who would offer better barstool conversation than Becker/Fagen.

This thread wasn't so much designed to trump the accomplishments of the Circle Jerks so much as it was an opportunity to take a dump on the `Dan
Wow, what a shocker.
And The Clash is better than both of them put together.

er, in reference to having a seat next to Keith Morris at a bar upthread. Which I'm sure would be sufficiently entertaining itself.

its not.

CLASH TEAM REPRESENT

And The Clash is better than both of them put together.

No arguments there.

clash fans everywhere agree

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wear/content/images/2005/05/09/sunday_crowd2_400x300.jpg

Tuomas?

Too bad Orbit was on the fence about whether he liked Steely Dan or not. I hope he made up his mind.

I'm sure he did.

Gree he he he

http://forum.llc.ed.ac.uk/graphics/pink_flamingos.jpg

Gree he he he

genius

Masturbatory coffee-table jazz-rock noodlery for people with patches on the elbows of their corduroy blazers hanging out in wine bars or "I JUST WANT SOME SKANK".

Circle Jerks, obv.

http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2007-09-28%2005.59.27%20-0700/Image-C30C58296DC111DC.jpg

yo is it true alex in nyc got sonned after a blazer beef?

Do you see a patch there? No. Is the blazer corduroy? No If you look to the right, you'll see my BEER. And it's a restaurant, not a wine bar....

So go blow yourself.

But nice try.

is that hitchens?

Don't knock that blazer! And no, Heinken ain't very punk, and ain't very good, but it was the only beer being served as part of the open bar (high school reunion thing).

heinken isn't very punk

it does taste like shit though

xpost ha

Alex in NYC is like my id or something.

<3 <3 u alex :)

i like both

Heard some more Steely Dan today -- in a fuckin' diner, no less (the track playing was "Hey Nineteen"). One indignity the Circle Jerks will invariably never face is being reduced to background music at a diner, I guarantee ya that.

All things considered, "Hey Nineteen" isn't nearly as offensive as "Deacon Blue."

yes its true that they probably wouldn't play the circle jerks in diners.

however i hear your girlfriend slicia keys everytime i walk in a 711.

"Deacon Blue" is a fucking incredible song.

its called deacon blues. god.

Oh let's not bring Him into this.

"Q. how did they get something to sound like this before Pro Tools"

lol