Could the new Liz Phair be any worse

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I got an advance copy of this, and it is pretty grim. But I didn't like wcse at first and it grew on me. I'm hoping this will too.

nickn (nickn), Thursday, 1 May 2003 02:59 (twenty years ago) link

What transformation was worse? Suzanne Vega to Suzanne Vega 2 or Liz Phair to Liz Phair 2?

Boy Justice, Thursday, 1 May 2003 06:46 (twenty years ago) link

SHE SUCKS SHE SUCKS SHE MOTHERFUCKING SUCKS!!

And she's NOT hot.

Evan (Evan), Thursday, 1 May 2003 11:36 (twenty years ago) link

It is not that bad at all. It has some major clunkers, but it also has some GREAT pop songs. "Extraordinary" and "Why Can't I" are just yummy.

Catherine (Catherine), Thursday, 1 May 2003 15:06 (twenty years ago) link

Wait, did Liz ever not have possession of the Girlysound tapes? Or did she license them to Matador at some point?

mike a (mike a), Thursday, 1 May 2003 16:47 (twenty years ago) link

Well a few of the songs were released on that (Matador) "Juvenelia" EP, so she must have given the go-ahead for that.

I used to wonder if maybe the reason "Girlysound" wasn't released commercially is because so many of the songs are "covers" and/or use elements of other songs, and Matador can't afford to pay all those royalties. But Matador has released at least one all-covers record (Cat Power), so that can't be right. (And I know nothing about the economics of royalties.)

Sam J. (samjeff), Thursday, 1 May 2003 16:55 (twenty years ago) link

Liz either sold the rights of the Girlysound tapes to Matador or licensed them, but for some reason I think it was the former. And I don't think her Girlysound tapes contain enough previously copyrighted material that would detract from releasing them.

If you are hard up for Liz info, check the mesmerizing website. Coy little skank that she is.

don weiner, Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:25 (twenty years ago) link

OK, the more I hear about this, the more fascinated I am. The Austin Statesman practically pissed itself saying how fucking awful she was at SXSW. Would somebody who's got the album kindly do a full-out review on this thread? As many people as possible, please. This sounds like the sort of train wreck that can yield all kinds of interesting talk.

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:14 (twenty years ago) link

I'm just trying to figure out who was all pantingly awaiting this album in the first place.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:15 (twenty years ago) link

matador made the right move leaving her behind when they split from capitol. boy did they get shafted.

jack cole (jackcole), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:22 (twenty years ago) link

FWIW, Phair is scheduled to play a "solo acoustic" set opening for The Flaming Lips later in the month, so I'll report on the damage.

Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 1 May 2003 23:08 (twenty years ago) link

Most comments in this thread don't even offer an opinion of the album at hand.

It is very Avril-polished-pop, but I think most of it is great polished-pop.

I have a feeling I'm going to spend the rest of the year very alone when it comes to this album.

Catherine (Catherine), Thursday, 1 May 2003 23:14 (twenty years ago) link

This thread began with a succinct opinion of the album at hand, Catherine. Different than yours, but an opinion. And judging from the opinions by people who have heard it, you are the only one calling it great polished pop.

I fear that calling her album a "fucking turd" has led to some confusion.

Let me go track by track so that everyone has a more clear idea what we're talking about here:

1 - "Exraordinary" - this would be a decent Liz Phair song if it was a recognizable Liz Phair song. But they've rubbed her vulnerable personality (or whatever it was circa 1992-3) into something indistinguishable.
2 - "Scared" - a total Avril ripoff with half the heart and half the chops. Liz Phair is not a singer, and her vocal talents are thin. This is being generous. These songs were not written (er, produced) with her in mind, and this song is a perfect example. It sounds like a song that didn't get accepted for Avril's album.
3 - "Why Can't I" - More egregious filler material in the form of overproduction. The cadence of this song is right off Dawson's Creek. It sounds like product placement.The lyrics are even worse.
4 - "You're In Love With Me" - There's all this space age electronica going on in the background of what once could have been a decent song. Picture a 5th-rate Mirwais at the board with a rack of fake guitars and you get the picture.
5 - "Rock Me" - so clean, so polished, so fucking tuneless. At this point, the producting is outright distracting. The chorus is kinda cool, except for the unbelievably trite lyrics. Dude, she talks about Xbox in this song. What-evah.
6 - "Take A Look" - sounds like a whitechocolatespacegg song. I like this song, actually. An album full of this was what I expected.
7 - "My Mother Is Fine" - a pretty sparse song, considering the company on this album. And actually, it would be great if it was even more sparse. But the piano takes it to Gilmore Girls territory.
8 - "Firewalker" - another decent, more traditional Phair song completely smothered by a thousand cooks and a million dollars in the kitchen.
9 - "My Favorite Underwear" - The lyrics are as bad as you think, and the singsong melody is paired with a generic chorus in a fashion that turns this track into something sensationally nondescript. But hey, if you've got a crap song, throw in some "provocative" lyrics and maybe people won't notice the mediocrity.
10 - "It's a War" - this is kind of a fun rock song, in kind of Styx sort of way--kind of that carnival keyboard deal that really ups the pagentry factor and all. Except that Liz Phair's voice has no business being on this song. The lyrics are a disaster--cloying, cliched, zzzzzzzzzzzz.
11 - "Hot White Cum" - The worst song she's ever committed to tape. Maybe this was funny or affecting when she demoed it, but after they autotuned her and let her play with a metronome (or whomever the studio drummer was) they managed suck every bit of life out of this song. Not that it took much. "Hot White Cum"? How charmingly insightful (and oh so coy!) for a 36 year old.
12 - "Bionic Eyes" - led in yet by another daring space age loop, Liz hooks up her deadpan vox with a vapid bunch of verses. The chorus is decent, but the rest of the song sounds like it was put together by a committee reading an instruction book. Strip this song down and it would sound at home on Whip-Smart.
13 - "Friend of Mine" - Another sort of mature, sweet song that sounds like something left off of whitechocolatespacegg. Second best song on the album, but who the fuck thought some sweeping strings (okay, so it's sythns w/chorus effect) would make this better?
14 - "Let the Night Come" - I swear to you, the multitracked harmonies on this track occasionally recall the Carpenters,except of course that we all know Liz is not Karen nor does she have Karen's alto. But I think Sheryl Crow has a couple songs like this in her catalog that turned out better.

There are two problems with this album, and they are obvious: 1) the songs just aren't all that good and 2) the production does not bring out the best of Liz Phair. Instead, it covers it up.

don weiner, Friday, 2 May 2003 02:40 (twenty years ago) link

Maybe she will tour with Jewel. Rolling Stones "New Wet Dream Tour"

Jake, Saturday, 3 May 2003 01:13 (twenty years ago) link

Or "old wet dream," depending on who you ask...

Prude (Prude), Saturday, 3 May 2003 01:34 (twenty years ago) link

this thread makes me sad

I loved Exile (still do) and think Whip Smart was a smart, strong followup. WCSE was - eh - not bad but nothing to get too excited over but seeing the hate for the new album is depressing. If it is as bad as ppl are syaiing, what the happened to Liz?

Doug Wolk said that this was the biggest betrayal of talent in his indie rock generation --- is the album really that bad?

H (Heruy), Saturday, 3 May 2003 02:12 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.lizphair.com/images/menu_music.jpg

R.I.P.


Venus Glow (1411), Saturday, 3 May 2003 03:02 (twenty years ago) link

This does sound truly interesting, and if the next album is her Sister Lovers maybe we'll have nothing to complain about.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 3 May 2003 03:09 (twenty years ago) link

...yeah she's either smarter or dumber than I thought, but I can't make sense of this.

Aaron A., Saturday, 3 May 2003 03:16 (twenty years ago) link

Sister Lovers!!!

CBGB/OMFUG T or not, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

V

V (1411), Saturday, 3 May 2003 04:07 (twenty years ago) link

Dammit, where's Camden Joy when we need him the most?

I thought Douglas Wolk was just exaggerating for effect, but he wasn't: this is an artistic betrayal of staggering proportions. Listening to it scares me, because I recognize that voice as superficially belonging to Liz Phair but I can't hear her on this album anywhere. It's Invasion of the Body Snatchers: The Album. And it's not the hi-gloss production or the Matrix songwriting credits that's at fault so much as the lyrics.

Nick Mirov (nick), Saturday, 3 May 2003 05:35 (twenty years ago) link

"Gimme your hot white cum
Gimme your hot white cum
Gimme your hot white cum
Gimme your hot white cum
Gimme your hot white cum
Gimme your hot white cum
Gimme your hot white cum
Gimme your hot white cum
Your hot white cum"

Sam J. (samjeff), Saturday, 3 May 2003 05:51 (twenty years ago) link

Gimme your hot white cum

It's sad that Liz has resorted to stealing from Maya Angelou's poetry.

Ernest P. (ernestp), Saturday, 3 May 2003 14:33 (twenty years ago) link

Are the lyrics all that difft. or just tightened up and brought into absurd relief by the production?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 3 May 2003 15:37 (twenty years ago) link

It was these few phrases in the song "Rock Me" that truly turned me off to the album, and I may never go back:

"I want to play Xbox on your floor
Say hi to your roommate who's next door
You don't have a dime, but I don't mind
Who gives a damn

Your record collection don't exist
You don't even know who Liz Phair is"

Never thought she was all that great, anyway. Only bought Exile in Guyville when it came out because I didn't know better. I don't feel as betrayed as some of her more rabid fans might, but I know a doublecross when I see one.

paul cox (paul cox), Saturday, 3 May 2003 16:25 (twenty years ago) link

I swear, it's Lilith Fair Bizzaro Year!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 3 May 2003 16:32 (twenty years ago) link

All we need is Paula Cole releasing a Randy Travis covers album and my word is complete.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 3 May 2003 19:15 (twenty years ago) link

FWIW, "Why Can't I" is the official single.

teeny (teeny), Saturday, 3 May 2003 20:14 (twenty years ago) link

my word is complete

Sterling is the resurrection? Sterling is the life?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 3 May 2003 20:28 (twenty years ago) link

oh my God those lyrics are CLASSIC

I am extraordinary, if you'd ever get to know me

you wait around years for something this awful, thank you thank you Liz Phair

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 3 May 2003 21:09 (twenty years ago) link

I just downloaded "Extrodinary." Listening: I'm alternately confused, ashamed, disgusted, complacent, and hopeful. Hopeful that this song really is all over pop radio. I think the crux is that this is just simply harmless.... whereas Liz used to be harmful. Or at least seemed that way to me in 1993. No falling apart at the seams here.

Does anyone know of a better break up song than "Divorce Song"?
"And it's also true that I lost the map". Amen.

scott m (mcd), Sunday, 4 May 2003 00:13 (twenty years ago) link

FWIW, Phair has been bragging that some legal loophole allowed her to regain the ownership of the Exile masters and the Girlysound tapes. This being the ten year anniverary of that release and all, she's alleging to do an expanded release late in the year.

-- don weiner

Sorry to say it, but it sounds like another last gasp from an artist in the throes of deep block or "deeply out of wad" syndrome.

Roman (Roman), Sunday, 4 May 2003 00:33 (twenty years ago) link

Anyway Matos called this years ago:

am I the only one who notices that Pink sounds like Liz Phair on "Get the Party Started"?

and I quite like extraordinary -- certainly more hooky & meandering than Avril &c.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 5 May 2003 19:47 (twenty years ago) link

hooky & meandering

Whoa -- that to my mind spells contradiction. I mean, I like the concept if it happens...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 5 May 2003 19:52 (twenty years ago) link

Liz Phairhokey & meandering... never!

V

V (1411), Monday, 5 May 2003 20:29 (twenty years ago) link

Sterling sometimes I think you toss superlatives into a blender and just type up whatever floats to the top when you hit "stop."

Then again I've been known to do this myself.

I was always told my girls in college that Exile meant a lot to them during their formative years blah blah. Is that true? I remember it being one of the few pieces of indie rock (broadly defined) that was played on the Adult Album Alternative station in Chicago, and I remember thinking it was pretty unexceptional.

amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:36 (twenty years ago) link

my girls = by girls

But I like the idea of having a squad of girls who had my back in college.

amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:37 (twenty years ago) link

"You don't even know who Liz Phair is"?!? What the fuck is she now, Ludacris? (pun totally intended)

M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 5 May 2003 22:29 (twenty years ago) link

Your record collection don't exist
You don't even know who Liz Phair is

this is GREAT!!!

thom west (thom w), Monday, 5 May 2003 22:37 (twenty years ago) link

coming in the context of everything else that's been said about the record, it just sounds sad

M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 5 May 2003 22:40 (twenty years ago) link

I have the feeling her lyrics were just as fucked before, but have heightened absurdity because of the strength of the production.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 03:01 (twenty years ago) link

no, they weren't amazing before but they were never this bad..

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 03:02 (twenty years ago) link

"Rock Me" is fantastic '95 throwback 70's nostalgia alterna-synth-linklater loveliness

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 19:07 (twenty years ago) link

Also U&K for the hatas to go listen to "It's Sweet" RIGHT NOW.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:07 (twenty years ago) link

Whoa - I had a dream last night where Liz Phair released a double-CD of amazing music for her "real" fans, right on the heels of "Liz Phair" - which she admitted was just a shallow ploy for airplay.

Sam J. (samjeff), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:16 (twenty years ago) link

According to some people on her mailing list, she does have about an LPs worth of material that's more "traditional Liz Phair" style that she says she may release via a web site.

nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 20:30 (twenty years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Um, I'm seriously loving this Liz Phair/Happy Tragic Thing/whatever it's being called now CD, having just gotten it and listened for the first time. I guess it's a drag that she doesn't sound like she used to, but to me the great thing about Liz has always been how proudly pathetic she's seemed. That song on whitechocolatespaceegg where she calls her mom and tells her that this new guy is different and isn't gonna hurt her feelings and stuff, "Divorce Song," "Fuck and Run" -- she always owned up to a whole world of really sad feelings that I wish more songwriters would sing about. So this new one just seems like the application of that pathetic-ness to her sound, which for me totally works. It's like, not only can't she get it together in a relationship, she can't even sell 100,000 records with some serious industry might behind her. What sad, curious drama.

Mikael Wood, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 04:41 (twenty years ago) link

"the application of that pathetic-ness to her sound" is like the most backhanded compliment I've read all week.

gotta love indie logic.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 04:48 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that Liz hooked up with the Matrix for any reason other than her honest desire to get that "I'm With You" acoustic-guitar timbre. But I also don't really care why she did it, because I think the result — at least on a one-to-one, record-to-listener basis — supersedes whatever her intent was, when considered within the context of her own body of work. In the same way that, say, Milli Vanilli would have gotten way better if they'd released an album of Sinatra duets or something.

Mikael Wood, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 05:12 (twenty years ago) link

indie logic is almost as good as grad school logic, but not quite. ;-)

tractor & trailer, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 05:43 (twenty years ago) link

Hmm. She still has an uncertain relation to pitch up until 2005 to my ears.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:27 (eleven years ago) link

I'll grab WCSE for the car tomorrow. When Scott and I did that Facebook thing, there was some interesting commentary on how severe the backlash against her was. (You just quoted one of my favourite lines from "Divorce Song"--that and "I guess I already am."

clemenza, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:30 (eleven years ago) link

Give it another shot.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:44 (eleven years ago) link

i repped for the 2003 album lots when it came out, but i can't really get into most of it anymore. i do like most of 'whip-smart.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:09 (eleven years ago) link

I was going to do ‘Funstyle,’ ‘Funnerstyle’ and 'Funnererstyle'

just... wow

boxedjoy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 11:00 (eleven years ago) link

I dunno, I've never known any artist ever that had more people go "I know exactly what she *should* be doing, and I will immediately stop her from doing what she *is* doing in favour of my vision" than her.

Fairly, unfairly, correctly or no, I have no idea, I only heard "Fuck and Run" by her...

Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 11:16 (eleven years ago) link

I keep waiting for her to do the inevitable kids album. The press release and reviews would pretty much write themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg055XfRnzY

dlp9001, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:09 (eleven years ago) link

one year passes...

Ten years since the release of the eponymous album. Fabulous interview: http://noisey.vice.com/blog/the-other-liz-phair-anniversary-this-week

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 June 2013 15:26 (ten years ago) link

I remember my A&R guy was Ron Laffitte and he was like, “Well, what would you do differently?”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp9PGzGroMc

This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Friday, 28 June 2013 15:34 (ten years ago) link

Good interview! Got me to check that record out for the first time. Really baffling that so much fuss was made - it's not a dramatic shift away from whitechocolatespaceegg and despite some kind of wince-inducing production choices here and there, and a couple of plodding numbers that never find a shape ("Friend of Mine") the songwriting totally feels like vintage Liz.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 29 June 2013 03:11 (ten years ago) link

"Why Can't I?" is surprisingly durable.

Mr. Mojo Readin' (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 29 June 2013 07:25 (ten years ago) link

My favorite track from that album is Red Light Fever.

how's life, Saturday, 29 June 2013 11:13 (ten years ago) link

I interviewed her after this album came out and she told me she was just happy to hear her songs played at the gym.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 29 June 2013 13:58 (ten years ago) link

three years pass...

actually, Funstyle is great.

he not like the banana (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 03:07 (six years ago) link


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