Come anticipate "The Dark Knight Rises" with *BATSPOILERS*

my problem with nolan's films has never been that they're dumb, but that they're dull. they're smart enough, i suppose, but they're so self-important and ploddingly literal - so devoid of wit, joy, perversity and imagination - that they feel like illustrative museum dioramas. "wit" is key there. die hard doesn't grapple with heady ideas, but it at least has the grace and good taste to take itself lightly, to pass with a smile. that's expresses a kind of intelligence, imo.

in comparison to that, nolan's films are like listening in while a moderately intelligent person explains, in painstaking detail, with pie charts and statistical corroboration, that they are, in fact, a genius. there's nothing smart or interesting about that, and certainly nothing witty or graceful. if you want to make movies that wear a heavy-duty serious face for three fucking hours, you better pay it off with some kind of artistic reward. afaic, nolan's film's can't manage this. they're like being pelted with dimly-lit intensity bricks, and they mean nothing more than that he's spent a lot of time working out the intricacies.

I get where you are going contenderizer and I really appreciate that you are taking the time to address it, but honestly I think I disagree that there isn't any "wit, joy, perversity and imagination" in Nolan's films. I think there are examples of all four, specifically in the Batman films. But, yeah, it does get heavy-handed at times.

the contende rizes

well, hyperbole, you know...

the only real spark in the two batman films i've seen came from heath ledger. the contrast between his lunatic performance and the inert action_puzzle.xls cinematic landscape into which he'd been dropped gave the dark knight its only truly memorable moments. i did like harvey dent's grossout makeup though.

Another problem with these movies is the nullity Bruce Wayne/Batman, thanks to Bale's performance. He's hard to take seriously.

*the nullity of

I like that nullity. Thought Michael Keaton had some of it about him, too. Bruce Wayne almost doesn't have a character, a personality, he's a cypher, an empty vessel.

I realize that's how fans of the comic like him but it's not a good defense ("He's SUPPOSED to be boring!").

when your iconic protagonist is a nullity, what else do we concentrate on – Nolan's big ideas?

* explosions
* hero building himself back up from nothing
* thrilling leaps of faith
* underground resistance plots
* a bomb is going to go off
* anne hathaway is hot
* there is a bat-plane
* this is a popcorn movie guys

Fucking cool bat costume. Fighting. Angst. Baddies. Etc etc.

I mean, I get what everyone here is saying, and I even see some merit in that "aristocratic" reading (although I think it, like a lot of "fascist" takes of this series - - with which I do partly agree!!! - depends on sort of ignoring that huge chunks of the 2nd and significant dashes of the 3rd are devoted to raising the question that batman actually represents a huge problematic in a civil democracy) - - - but one thing I don't get is the idea that these movies are so devoted to their own loftiness and Deep Ideas. Yeah, there's some cornball speechifying that tries to make "Conquer your fear!" sound like a bigger deal than it is - - but man, have you heard any speech in any blockbuster? I'm satisfied by these because they're entertaining and I can basically understand everything that happens and give a shit about the characters, which yeah, compare to Transformers or Wrath of the Titans or any other action-effects fantasy explosion movie and, I mean, damn.

Like, if the movies don't thrill you, okay, and yeah, TDKR is no Die Hard but by the general standards of what a Thrilling Movie is supposed to do I think they score pretty high.

that they feel like illustrative museum dioramas

what sort of savage would dis museum dioramas :-(

This movie really needed an Oceans 11-type flashback at the credits showing how Batman survived that last noble act.

what sort of savage would dis museum dioramas :-(

― the late great, Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:39 PM Bookmark

i don't know if you were there, but this kind of question THROTTLED the paul simon ballot poll results thread on ILM, i don't know if i'm ready to revisit that battlefield

the contende rizes

― am0n, Wednesday, July 25, 2012 12:52 PM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark

nice

Another problem with these movies is the nullity Bruce Wayne/Batman, thanks to Bale's performance. He's hard to take seriously.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:08 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree w/u re: the first 2 movies but i thought bale had a nice lightness of touch here

bunch of good posts itt, really feeling ryan on the realism/mannism & how timely it felt (that the newest spider-man film mainly existed separate from anything interesting or topical jarred, slightly, i think).

& yeah bale was good in this one. alfred was being such a debbie downer throughout but i bought into bruce wayne's quieter moments. it's a pity they got sped up into push-up montages, but the idea of him being a shut-in getting round to shaving so he could leave the house worked pretty well.

It was a pretty odd decision to have two comebacks for Batman though

There ain't a post credits scene here is there. Didn't look like there was going to be one by the time I stayed til. So hope I didn't miss one.

Thought it was pretty great and would be up for watching another one, assuming Alfred isn't hallucinating/dreaming.

Don't recall coming across Bane before, but maybe they just changed the way he looks a bit. Sorry if that's sorted further up the thread i haven't read it all the way through.

so what's this year's next biggie?

Bourne or Bond i guess

wonder if there was any significance to 8 years gap, since I thought this was supposed to be a fantasised present day. & I don't think the last one was that long ago.

star trek two

alfred was being such a debbie downer

I learned it from watching Bale

don't confucians believe life happens in eight year cycles, maybe that's the meaning

star trek two

― the late great, Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:58 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

next year

Argo looked kinda interesting.

Steveolende - Bane is a 2nd or 3rd tier Bat-villain, invented in the early 90s basically to kickstart a plot about Batman getting his back broken and having to start again. His motivations in the comics were way different than in the movie IIRC, but I think they successfully grabbed what was useful about the concept: after decades of fighting malnourished lunatics, Batman meets someone who's his physical match, and loses. (Nevermind Killer Croc and Man-Bat.) I don't BELIEVE he ever had anything to do with R'as al Ghul before. He also was used as Uma Thurman's henchman in Batman and Robin but the less said about that, the better.

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/01/21/ask-chris-42-breaking-down-bane/ - - Chris Sims makes a case for the comic book version of the character as being more interesting than he's cracked up to be.

xp re argo, ^^ i had to look this up and see that it wasn't another sword-and-sandal movie

o/t but man i saw clash of the titans on cable and it was a really ohh lord pac moment for me

"While searching for the Swiss man in Rome, Bane encounters the League of Assassins and eventually Bane impresses Ra's al Ghul so much that he chooses Bane as his heir (an "honor" he had previously bestowed on Batman).[11]"

you have to remember bane came out like six months after image comics started, he is a quintessential early 90s hardman

only good thing about bane was that he looked hilarious when kelly jones drew him

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll9hpsCc5A1qbnzd3o1_400.jpg

is he some kind of roided out crazy man or is he just generic badass

sorry i guess i could wiki but those are so goddam long for comic book shits

the pain mask thing was always part of it iirc and a reason he was so unstoppable

he didn't have the pain thing in the comics. He had pipes that injected "Venom" directly into his bloodstream which made him super strong. He's also super intelligent

Yeah, he had a super-roid but it had nothing to do with the mask

Also, I never cease to be amazed that someone looked at that cover and thought "yup, this is a great cover image, send it to press!"

this is embarrassing, but i think a missed a key plot point or simply didn't understand what Bane was saying but....can anyone tell me what Bane's whole idea was with not just blowing up Gotham right away?

He (and Talia) were self-indulgent and wanted to see Batman/Bruce Wayne and his city suffer?

The way he pitches it to Batman in prison is that it's all about fucking with Batman's head and confronting him with his failure and so on. (Should have put the TV behind Plexiglas, I guess.) Seems like a lot of trouble to go to, especially if he wasn't going to bother keeping closer tabs on the prison to see if it was all going according to plan. It's odd, anyway, since R'as himself didn't feel the need to drag out Gotham's suffering so much, and their whole MO seems to be just to pick up where he left off.

Well, and Talia pretty much says that she wanted to finish her father's quest AND take revenge on Batman for killing him.

sorry i guess i could wiki but those are so goddam long for comic book shits

― goole, Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:22 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark

theres a really comprehensive link like 5 posts above u

oh ok. yeah i kinda get it as basically a ploy to show how Gotham isn't worth redeeming because they'll just lay down to Bane?

bane is the guy on the beach kicking sand in weakling batman's face

talia is the hot girl who chooses him over batman

i read the wiki anyway :/ :)

ok yeah yeah not a mask but a super-roid, though i thought it made him able to ignore pain berserker-style?

assuming Alfred isn't hallucinating/dreaming.

Ha - that was what I wondered too after seeing it the first time. Just seen it again and this time I caught the thing with Fox finding out that Bruce fixed the autopilot so woo, that's how Batman escapes.

Liked it as much on second viewing. Particularly like the way it's not clear what's best when it comes to "letting the truth have its day". I like that it's Bane who gets to be the one who reads Commissioner Gordon's speech about Two-Face. And I like that by the end, as Bane looks up at Bruce like a wounded Caliban, the whole League of Shadows seems pretty noble.