You spell it with the 'g', but then you don't pronounce the 'g'.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 11 July 2012 20:13 (10 months ago) Permalink
dumplins
― deems irreverent (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 22:33 (10 months ago) Permalink
dumplin's 'n' potato's
― Özil Gummidge (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 22:57 (10 months ago) Permalink
is it not grammatically correct to use "or" in place of "i.e."?
for example:
These programs are required to be part of [jargon], or [things that explain that jargon]
These programs are required to be part of turtles, or those things in the sea that float.These programs are required to be part of turtles, i.e., those things in the sea that float.
I thought it was OK usage, but my boss keeps changing it, and google is not being my friend.
― rayuela, Thursday, 12 July 2012 19:35 (10 months ago) Permalink
Looks strange to me - it seems as if you're saying there's a choice rather than giving clarification.
― Özil Gummidge (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 12 July 2012 19:41 (10 months ago) Permalink
(also programs can't be part of turtles)
― Özil Gummidge (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 12 July 2012 19:43 (10 months ago) Permalink
Doesn't answer your question, but what about using "such as" instead of "or"?
― pplains, Thursday, 12 July 2012 19:43 (10 months ago) Permalink
i.e. = "id est" = "that is," meaning "that is to say" or "in other words..." So it wouldn't be correct to use it in place of "or."
― Neil Jung (WmC), Thursday, 12 July 2012 19:44 (10 months ago) Permalink
(xp) But then that's giving an example of one of many rather than explaining all
― Özil Gummidge (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 12 July 2012 19:44 (10 months ago) Permalink
A nice mnemonic for i.e. and e.g.:i.e. = id est = in ether words...e.g. = exempli gratia = For egsample...
― Tom Crucifictorious (Leee), Thursday, 12 July 2012 20:04 (10 months ago) Permalink
hmm ok. i am placated for now but i may come back with more examples later if they arise. thansk!
― rayuela, Thursday, 12 July 2012 20:18 (10 months ago) Permalink
You can use use "or" to mean "also referred to as," but that doesn't correspond exactly with "i.e."
― Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 12 July 2012 20:29 (10 months ago) Permalink
ok, yeah, i think that might be what i was thinking of...
― rayuela, Thursday, 12 July 2012 20:35 (10 months ago) Permalink
viz.to witnamely
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 12 July 2012 22:41 (10 months ago) Permalink
when doing a comparative, do you need to repeat the verb? is it just a stylistic preference or is one WRONG.
My cat is cuter than your cat.My cat is cuter than your cat is.
This cohort belongs to a higher socioeconomic class than the other cohort.
― rayuela, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 19:16 (8 months ago) Permalink
My feeling is that in cases where the specific wording COULD introduce ambiguity, keep the verb, but I don't think it's necessary?
― purveyor of generations (in orbit), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 19:19 (8 months ago) Permalink
hmm ok.
option A sounds so weird to me but maybe i have just brainwashed myself into thinking it sounds wrong?
A) The data suggest that cohort X were much more likely to complete Activity A, Activity B, and Activity C than their matched counterparts.
B) The data suggest that cohort X were much more likely to complete Activity A, Activity B, and Activity C than *were* their matched counterparts.
― rayuela, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 19:35 (8 months ago) Permalink
but then i start to think that option B is unnecessary. so i can't decide.
I'd go with A because I believe in simplicity and you don't seem to think it will interfere with comprehension.
― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 19:36 (8 months ago) Permalink
ok. thanks you two!
― rayuela, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 19:39 (8 months ago) Permalink
http://www.ehow.com/how_2086393_use-raise-rise-correctly.html
When writing and speaking, people often misuse the words raise and rise. Raise is an intransitive verb meaning "to lift up, to exalt or to enhance," and rise is a transitive verb-a verb that takes a direct object-meaning "to move or pass upward in any manner, to increase in value or to improve in position or rank." The forms of the words are very similar but have distinct differences. Follow the steps to learn how to use the words raise and rise correctly.
last time i google grammar tips
― la goonies (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 September 2012 02:23 (8 months ago) Permalink
That's similar to lay and lie, at first glance? Sounds reasonable to me?
― purveyor of generations (in orbit), Tuesday, 18 September 2012 02:25 (8 months ago) Permalink
no, raise is transitive and rise is intransitive - "they raised prices" (prices = object) - "jesus rose from the dead"
― la goonies (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 September 2012 02:28 (8 months ago) Permalink
"Ethanol is a depressant, which lowers heart rate."
This is wrong, but how do I explain to a simpleton that it is wrong?
I think the thing that makes it wrong is that the writer has tried say two things (ethanol is a depressant; depressants lower heart rate) but has overstretched the word depressant to do so, trying to use it as both subject and object in two different statements. Is that accurate?
Also, can you think up a good example with the main words replaced that would really hammer home why this construction does not work (A is a B, which C)?
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 21 September 2012 13:23 (8 months ago) Permalink
Relative pronoun clauses (aka adjective clauses in this instance) should be able to be separated into simple sentences and still be true.Ethanol is a depressant. Depressants lower heart rate. If that's not the case, the sentence is a stinker.
― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Friday, 21 September 2012 13:34 (8 months ago) Permalink
I think those two statements are true, but still the sentence doesn't work. I think might have something to do with the singular/plural switch (i.e. you had to turn depressant into depressants in your second sentence). For example, "Some drugs are depressants, which lower heart rate" is fine. At the same time, you can say, on its own, "A depressant lowers heart rate". But I hear the original sentence as "Ethanol is a depressant. Depressant lowers heart rate" - i.e. Hulk-speak. Maybe I'm wrong.
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 21 September 2012 13:46 (8 months ago) Permalink
I guess I'd have to know who the writer is - native or nonnative speaker?
― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Friday, 21 September 2012 14:07 (8 months ago) Permalink
Native, though uninterested in the nitty gritty of grammar. It is a caption in an educational film. I think she understands that it sounds awkward but doesn't think it's a big enough deal to change it at the moment. To me it sounds awful.
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 21 September 2012 14:36 (8 months ago) Permalink
Native, though uninterested in the nitty gritty of grammar.This is most people, tbf. I'm not repulsed by the sentence in question, but it is clunky.
― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Friday, 21 September 2012 15:22 (8 months ago) Permalink
"Ethanol is a depressant that lowers heart rate.""Ethanol is a depressant, so it lowers heart rate."
― ledge, Friday, 21 September 2012 15:29 (8 months ago) Permalink
The 'wrongness' you sense is awkwardness, not flawed grammar. I like the suggestion of "Ethanol is a depressant, so it lowers heart rate", in that it is clearer, more natural and, if space were a consideration, fits easily in the same space.
― Aimless, Friday, 21 September 2012 18:26 (8 months ago) Permalink
"Ethanol is a depressant, lowering the heart rate."
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 21 September 2012 19:33 (8 months ago) Permalink
THANK YOU.
― purveyor of generations (in orbit), Friday, 21 September 2012 19:34 (8 months ago) Permalink
Yeah, either that or ""Ethanol is a depressant; it lowers the heart rate" (replacing semi-colon with a dash if preferred)
― Alba, Friday, 21 September 2012 19:37 (8 months ago) Permalink
"Ethanol is a depressant; DRINK IT AND DIE"
― cake-like Lady Gaga (DJP), Friday, 21 September 2012 19:40 (8 months ago) Permalink
Yep, we're going with that.
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 21 September 2012 20:25 (8 months ago) Permalink
The comma before 'which' makes it a non-defining relative clause which refers to the whole previous clause, not just the noun. Compare:Old Trafford is a stadium which can seat more than 70,000 spectators ('which' = stadium)She said she found my cooking disgusting, which really took the edge off my evening ('which' = the fact that she said she found my cooking disgusting)
So "Ethanol is a depressant, which lowers heart rate." is a bizarre sentence - it doesn't mean that depressants lower heart rate, nor that ethanol lowers heart rate. It means that the existence of the fact that ethanol is a depressant somehow lowers heart rate.
― Mountain Excitement (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 21 September 2012 21:24 (8 months ago) Permalink
Ethanol is a depressant and lowers heart rate.
― quincie, Friday, 21 September 2012 21:58 (8 months ago) Permalink
In the Old Trafford example, "which" should be "that" according to the more strict US usage, which I tend to follow cos it leads to less hassle.
In the second example, you could change it to "She was disgusted by my cooking, which to be fair is bloody awful" - "which" obviously referring to "my cooking". But then again, you could have "She was disgusted by my cooking, which really pissed me off" - "which" referring to her being disgusted by my cooking. It's tricky with this stuff - it's context-led in a way that makes it difficult to explain why something feels off.
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 21 September 2012 22:29 (8 months ago) Permalink
Perhaps you will enjoy this language log post about which clauses http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4165
― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Friday, 21 September 2012 22:30 (8 months ago) Permalink
also one of those is an adj clause and one is an adv clause afaict
The comma before 'which' makes it a non-defining relative clause which refers to the whole previous clause, not just the noun.
Weird, I have never heard of this (presumably UK) rule!
― Sandy Denny Real Estate (jaymc), Friday, 21 September 2012 22:38 (8 months ago) Permalink
In the UK, you can use "which" where in the US it would be "that" (as in nasty, brutish & short's "Old Trafford is a stadium which can seat more than 70,000 spectators"). A comma indicates whether it is restrictive or non-restrictive. It works and makes sense, but it's a use that will be wiped out shortly mainly due to Word highlighting it as an error every time.
(It will take longer to wipe out the UK acceptance of dividing subject and verb by comma. For example, I could have put a comma after "It works" in the UK, but it'd be wiped out by US copy editors.)
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 21 September 2012 22:59 (8 months ago) Permalink
alla these sound like bad SAT answers tbh
"alcohol, it lowers the heart rate, being that it is a depressant"
― la goonies (k3vin k.), Saturday, 22 September 2012 01:54 (8 months ago) Permalink
the original is fine except there is some plurality disagreement.
imo the best wording would be
"ethanol, a depressant, lowers the heart rate" or "depressants like ethanol lower the heart rate"
― la goonies (k3vin k.), Saturday, 22 September 2012 02:03 (8 months ago) Permalink
this thing, it is called ethanol, what does it do it is a depressant, what lowers the rate of your heart if you ingest it, and such
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 22 September 2012 02:49 (8 months ago) Permalink
K3vin's first one is best, and adds the needed definite article.
― Claudia Schiffer Kills Frog (Leee), Saturday, 22 September 2012 02:57 (8 months ago) Permalink
What is meant by the expression "Whither (something)?" e.g. "Whither Socialism?"
Does it mean, "Where is Socialism headed?" "Where is Socialism?" or rhetorically "Is Socialism on the decline?"
I've always been confused by this phrase.
― This Is... The Police (dog latin), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 14:05 (7 months ago) Permalink
all of em
― Randy Carol (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 14:09 (7 months ago) Permalink
― I got the Boyzone, I got the remedy (ledge), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 14:12 (7 months ago) Permalink