People Who Live In Suburbs: Classy, Icky, or Dudes?

the size of your down payment and whether you have a variable rate mortgage have very little to do with one another

Yup. Basically, if you have a lower down payment you'll have to pay mortgage insurance (PMI) along with your mortgage, making it a slightly higher out of pocket cost. I believe FHA loans are exempt from PMI requirements. Variable rate mortgages are an instrument that people play with if they don't expect to live in a home more than the locked-in period, or if they feel they'll be able to refinance within that time period.

last thing then I'm done

my position
a. I don't care whether middle class or rich people buy or rent. there are reasons to do both and it depends on situation. it's not 'an investment' beyond being a place to put cash that historically keeps up w/ inflation.

you can make it an investment by actually investing in it. but it's not gonna get better just cause you lived in it, unless you're elvis.

if you want to speculate on land values, sure, go for it. if I had a ton of money I would buy an apartment in the bronx. that would not be an investment. it would be speculation about future land values in the bronx.

anyway just read robert shiller on this subject. there's prob not a more credible person in the world w/r/t long-term housing values.

b. the social and economic gains from an 'ownership society' are not strong enough that it should be promoted via policy. in fact, the current policy regime ends up being v. shitty for those not in the 'ownership society'. the answer is not to expand the ownership society - we actually tried this iirc - it's to make the renting society less shitty. there are super easy ways to do this unfortunately they often involve upper middle class people giving up shit, so they're not actually super easy.

c. single family houses, cars, sprawl etc are all mutually reenforcing. and homeownership is a more natural fit to single housing cause you dont have the building coordination problems that exist w/ owning a single condo/apt.

d. jobs are likely to continue trending away from long-term employment w/ one company and/or in one industry for much of america. mobility is gonna matter even more and the huge transaction costs that come w/ buying and selling property are bigger constraints to the poor than to the middle class and rich.

e. I don't hate you because you own property*. there are reasons to own property. our current system just really sucks for poor people from top to bottom.

*except jon/via/chi

anyway I wrote that all on my phone so I lost this game no doubt

*except jon/via/chi

lol and people wonder why I feel singled out by certain people around here

I was taught that if you couldn't put 20% down, you had no business buying. Is this wrong?

What really screwed over a lot of people in my age/locale was:

- Buying undersized/overpriced/overbuilt housing types like small suburban townhomes, condos, or other small new developments that are really only good for a single person or couple, not so much for kids or expansion
- Said homes are part of a homeowners association or townhome association that is underfunded or understaffed to the extent where monthly/yearly fees jump up considerably in the first few years
- Adjustable rate mortgages that are locked in for only five years

So you end up owning a townhome in an area that barely has enough money for landscaping repairs/trash removal/services, unable to sell it due to the fact there are five for sale in the same development, with your mortgage about to jump rates

VP, it really depends what market you're in! That is a good rule of thumb, but there are definite exceptions.

c. single family houses, cars, sprawl etc are all mutually reenforcing

This is the only real thing I'd differ with iatee on in that there are different types of single-family houses, and there are entire city neighborhoods full of smaller single-family homes in many areas that are in walkable neighborhoods and/or near public transit that would not become any more efficient if torn down and replaced with denser housing.

I was taught that if you couldn't put 20% down, you had no business buying. Is this wrong?

Like mh says, it depends. When we bought, we put down 5% on a place well below our budget limit (~$40K below our budget limit, actually), got a 30 year fixed rate mortgage, then refinanced after a year to get rid of PMI and to get a lower rate. We just recently refinanced again for 15 years at an even lower rate, plus through all of the various market fluctuations our place skyrocketed in value, then "crashed" down to a fair market value about $20-$25K more than what we spent on it; the amount we owe is ~$40K below what we paid for it, so even if we sold below what we paid for it, we have a sizable cushion before we walk away owing money.

Of the various money decisions we've made over the past 17 years, buying a condo within our budget in a decent, not overpriced but not dirt cheap neighborhood was easily the best one we made.

Having said that, living in Boston makes this a very different scenario from living in NYC, where I have heard horror stories about the amount of money you need to have upfront to get into a building co-op.

*except jon/via/chi

lol and people wonder why I feel singled out by certain people around here

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:36 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i certainly don't wonder why people joke about your oversensitivity to such things the way iatee was clearly doing

I have mixed feelings about down payment requirements. I think it would make more sense to require a person to have a certain amount of savings left over after purchase, like enough to make x amount of monthly payments on the house at whatever LTV ratio you buy it at. I don't think taking a $200,000 loan on a $250,000 house is necessarily that much more risky than taking out a $200,000 loan on a $215,000 house though.

i certainly don't wonder why people joke about your oversensitivity to such things the way iatee was clearly doing

i'm not butthurt in the least (mostly because i have next to zero respect for iatee as a poster), i just find it interesting that of all the people that argue/engage with iatee he singles me out like that. also, i'm not so sure iatee was joking with that one.

he singles u out b/c u get crazy defensive, like when you say things like "i'm not so sure iatee was joking with that one"

Its not "crazy defensive" to suggest that I genuinely believe him based on other things he's said to me though.

jon /via/ chi 2.0 do you believe that iatee seriously, not jokingly, actually hates you, and only you, because you own property. that is something u think.

Ok, I guess I do need to clarify, I don't think iatee hates me because I own property. I think iatee hates me though, but I'm not sure what his reasons are.

tbf man, that is part of iatees argumentation schtick, i think that aero and i have both gotten similar stuff from him at one point or another

did you ever see the thread where iatee was talking about being a lawyer and owning beemers to that dude that showed up for a couple days? key to understanding his humor imo

See I thought that thread was pretty funny, but I don't really see much of that side of his "humor" in a thread like this.

Anyway, whatever, I only used the word "hate" because it was in his post in question. I don't know that he hates me, but I get the distinct vibe that he really doesn't like me.

maybe you just need a beemer

or a hummer

(sorry)

Ok, I guess I do need to clarify, I don't think iatee hates me because I own property. I think iatee hates me though, but I'm not sure what his reasons are.
--heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0)

I think if someone expands this this thread they will find that time you told me you hope I get cancer

oh yeah haha i think he said "all of you" should die of cancer so i guess like, me, you, laurel?

incidence of cancer is generally higher in urban populations that rural populations fwiw

if I ever get cancer im gonna blame him

me too maybe? i'm kinda half on this team i guess

rural people have a higher incidence of being sucked into a combine tho

welcome to Team Cancer

lights cigarette

my general rule is that statements of hatred or wishes of getting cancer are only real if sent via registered USPS mail so ilx doesnt count

not butthurt in the least, y'all

someone tell deej xp

jon just cracks me up because he's practically saying "i don't hold a grudge...but that fuckin guy over there sure as shit has a grudge against me"

lol, some dude you are like the king of putting words in other poster's mouths and that is an A+ job again right there. and, well, yeah, i'm not going to defend that stupid shit i said earlier itt. i'll just leave it that i was going through some personal shit at the time and i was feeling pretty ganged up on. doesn't excuse it in the least and i feel pretty embarrassed for even allowing myself to type it out.

it's not a toomah, it's suburb

"some dude you are the king... A+!" - jon /via/ chi 2.0

lol i have nothing but love for you some dude, but you just love to needle people and provoke shit, don't yuo?

i was actually going to apologize in my last post but you set me up so well for that that i could resist. sorry homie, will back off.

meant to say "couldn't resist" but obviously i COULD and didn't want to lol

fwiw, i'm not saying i feel like you're badgering me. i just have noticed that when threads turn like this, you are like the kid in high school that never did the actual bullying but would stand to the side and remind the bully of other reasons to make fun of the kid getting picked on. and, no, not because of me, i noticed you really like doing it mostly during deej-related beefs.

haha i don't just stand to the side when deej is saying something funny, though

suburbanites, amirite

okay, true, but i feel like you really enjoy egging like whiney or whoever on.

is this the "we analyze ilxors to see why they're antagonizing someone who keeps posting about his antagonists"

Don't interrupt jon's train of thought, mh. I think he might be getting somewhere.

not to be all fake-noble but i often turn on my asshole switch pretty deliberately when i think someone else is being an asshole. if i give a hard time to someone who's generally good natured or doesn't really deserve too much grief, like you right now, i try to chill out and/or apologize after getting in my one or two cheap shots.

oh and lol, of course, here comes laurel. why the fuck do you keep popping in to antagonize me?

maybe it was where she was talking about issues upthread and you compared her to Glenn Beck

also, I think she was being literal, lol