rolling "Is This Racist?" thread

Obviously the british people who wrote the article don't know the "black people can't swim" stereotype or it would have been a slam dunk

nice basketball ref

I wasn't even trying, damn my colloquialisms

at any rate, if my personal experiences are at all universal, this is a conversation many black people have had with each other with both sides being argued strenuously

I think there's something... I don't know if "seductive" is the right word, possibly "romantic"?... about the idea that this horrible suffering placed upon African-Americans created this weird unintended boon in later generations.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/tat070512/s_t32_RTR31P4P.jpg

lol, not intended as a response to your post dan. just pretty amazing.

as i have often attempted to inhabit the mind of a southern plantation owner in my astral projections, i can say that 'olympic running away speed' is the last trait i would select for.

i am curious though if pol pot inadvertantly cured astigmatism for a generation.

I was about to take this conversation in a direction where I would have offended MYSELF

The Michael Johnson quote is like exactly like what got Jimmy the Greek fired 25 years ago!

malcolm gladwell has a good rebuttal to the 'genetic advantage' argument. quandary!

Michael Johnson is presenting a documentary in the UK on this theory. It hasn't shown yet so not drawing any further conclusions but just to put it in context, that was why doubtless why he was asked about it, he didn't just come out with that reply out of nowhere.

it has shown now

link to gladwell's rebuttal?

y'know, I wonder how the evolving field of epigenetics relates to michael johnson's theory

http://www.gladwell.com/1997/1997_05_19_a_sports.htm

like most things gladwell, i think it's good in that it's likely true, and a breezy read.

breezy and headspinning both

bringing it all back to our "wwii re-enactor" friend:

http://brnewsblog.brandrepublic.com/2012/07/03/topshop-sells-t-shirt-featuring-nazi-ss-logo/

like most things gladwell, I found it self-contradictory, and sort of glib.

but yeah, the whole genetic athleticism thing is pretty widespread. i don't think it's racist (although it opens that door), but it sort of flies in the face of a fair amount of science, and i can see as a myth how it's sort of comforting and empowering in a certain way -- like dan sez, romantic. strength through adversity, etc.

xp I'm guessing that shirt arose when some design intern google image searched "skull and crossbones" and picked something cool-looking to trace in illustrator

guys, gladwell is reductive and the points he makes are usually reasonable but never really supported scientifically by his "evidence". dude is an anecdote-seller and iirc took tobacco lobby cash at one point

none of that has much to do with this piece, though. which i think is interesting and a fairly engaging read. i like the way he leads you toward certain conclusions, then undercuts them, keeping his larger point in doubt.

That TopShop SS thing made me think of that Mitchell and Webb skit. "are we... the BAD GUYS?"

Seems entirely in-keeping with Slayer's aesthetic - to the point where i'm wondering whether it's not a reproduction of one of their own designs. Topshop are idiots for carrying anything connected to the daft Nazi fetishists in the first place.

yah tbh i would have had no idea it was explicitly the SS skull and crossbones (as opposed to, like, every other cliched S&C?)

i have an old fuct johnny cash t shirt i bought over a decade ago with that skull on it... the wwii re-enactor i sometimes work with pointed out the source with glee and i don't wear it anymore.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VwebD70TL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Different company sells the same design as a computer skin.

That's the exact same image that Death in June used on a lot of their stuff and no-one ever accused them of being nazis oh wait

sorry,, I thought it would be apparent to many here that Slayer is a band who have been known to have troubling problem with nazi iconography. The weird thing to me is that the article doesn't make any mention of the band Slayer.

To everyone involved here, Slayer is just "a design", "a motif".

I'd be pretty surprised if anyone putting a Slayer logo on a shirt didn't know about their consistent use of Nazi imagery, tbh. The management might not have but the designers of the shirt surely would.

always felt like that skull was a little too cuet to be effective SS iconography

its expression says it just wants everyone to be cool

heh, now that you mention it, it kinda reminds me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdvAuzIheFU

Wal-Mart got in trouble a few years back for selling Totenkopf shirts. It was one of the reasons I quit reading The Consumerist. It felt like their day was
- Totenkopf shirt at Alexandria, Virginia Wal-Mart (122nd Wal-Mart found to sell shirt)
- Cell phone pic shows clearance price tag with a three cent discount
- Best Buy asked me to check my receipt when I left the store with a swimming pool-sized TV
- Cell phone pic showing a three-pack of peanut butter with a higher per unit price than a single jar of peanut butter
- Totenkopf shirt at Lesotho, Ohio Wal-Mart (123rd Wal-Mart found to sell shirt)
- Best Buy tried to sell me a bad warranty

the wiki page for totenkopf is worth a read

btw, Death in June have definitely dealt with a good deal of controversy over their use of Nazi imagery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_June#Controversy . and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

I think you missed the "oh wait" at the end of NickB's post

ah so! sorry nickb, i am overly caffeinated.

Totenkopfs predate the Nazis, though, right? Weren't they worn by some Prussian cavalry unit back in Frederick the Great's time?

Nazis ruined swastikas for everybody too

xp, yes but i think the one Slayer use is specifically an SS variation on the theme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf

the Wikipedia page specifically mentions Death In June, Laibach and The Melvins, but nothing about Slayer

The Melvins def aren't shy with that stuff tho

http://www.popsike.eu/pix/20081202/150313668169.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jHNgZ.jpg

xp

oh Melvinspaws

this is the page you want for the SS totenkopf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_SS_Division_Totenkopf

one diff between Slayer's use of fascist iconography & Death In June's is that Slayer's interest probably ends at the water's edge, so to speak. Images that are associated with widespread death & cruelty & horrific human behavior are badass; they have the ability to elicit a reaction just by being there, and that reaction is one of fear & revulsion, and that's wicked. That is a sort of metal mindset. Death In June have an almost identical position backed up by a lot of intellectual foofaraw about symbols & iconography & the distance between artist & narrator, some of which has some pith to it but much of which ends up at "there is something totally wicked about fascist iconography"

imo

but most dudes who pretend the resonance they're copping from these symbols isn't largely or wholly due to the symbols having been adopted by the nazis, those dudes are posing. sure boyd, it's just that you find the swastika interesting, has nothing to do with hitler

"they're the good swastikas"

love you, melvins, but a giant fucking swastika ranks high among the things i do not want on my turntable

people finding something interesting/controversial in transgression? well, I never!