Christgau, Chusid, or DeRogatis: Which critic is the most useless?

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I had a musician write me a letter once and thank me for a criticism I made that he thought was valid.

― Tim Ellison, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:30 (seventeen years ago) link

"I know the general mindset."

What the hell does that even mean? Is there a "general mindset" that pervades all music boards?

― Hurting 2, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:30 (seventeen years ago) link

anyway i would just like to say i love reading about awesome music.

― Mr. Que, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Is there a "general mindset" that pervades all music boards?

It's called "smarmy douchebaggery," and yeah, it's pretty common.

― unperson, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:32 (seventeen years ago) link

And why we should we listen to the dude from Soul Coughing

Soul Coughing is soooooooooooooooooooo much more useless than Christgau.

― Hurting 2, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Seriously, though, I can't work out what kind of blockhead you'd have to be to sit around sputtering at the GALL of critics to have freaking OPINIONS, as if you haven't noticed that healthy human beings are actually often interested in opinions that aren't their own, and kinda the whole point of criticism is how those healthy human beings are even willing to pay 99 cents or look at some ads in order to maybe find out and think about someone's opinions on a topic, maybe even someone with a track record of experience, attention, knowledge, and provocative thought w/r/t the topic at hand, whether the topic is music or politics or which desktop conference speakerphone design is the best value.

I imagine these blockheads wandering in a strictly utilitarian world of blank walls and Hannibal Lecter masks and their mothers call and go "hey, I saw that Diane Keaton movie yesterday" and they say "thank you for that factual information" and their mothers say "you know, I thought it was a little--" and they say "I have already formed an opinion of said film and your opinion is no more valid than mine, and if you think your opinion is SO GREAT that it's worth eating up my daytime minutes to share it then you've got another think coming, ho."

― nabisco, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

What the hell does that even mean? Is there a "general mindset" that pervades all music boards?

I meant no disrespect. I've simply noticed that the majority of people who post regularly on such sites get extremely defensive when their own opinions are called into question, more so than is logical or necessary.

Why does everyone hate Klosterman?

― souldesqueeze, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Is there a general mindset that pervades all new posters who start threads like this? Yeah, it's called "I have an original thought to tell you guys and it's going to blow your stupid minds"

― Hurting 2, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Does this site feature a search function that isn't powered by Google?

― souldesqueeze, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:34 (seventeen years ago) link

I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives
I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives

― Matos W.K., Monday, 26 March 2007 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I can't blame you there. We lost our old search function when we switched over to the nu format, and the google search sux.

― Hurting 2, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

we sold the search function to get t-shirts with our names on them

― strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:36 (seventeen years ago) link

I hate criticism. . . . I await your perspectives

Fair shot. ;)

― souldesqueeze, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:36 (seventeen years ago) link

if you didn't get one, it means exactly what you think it means

― strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:36 (seventeen years ago) link

extremely defensive when their own opinions are called into question

so which reviews that you disagreed with caused you to start this thread

― rps, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link

where the fuck is my fucking t shirt

http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/bangs_l.jpg

― Mr. Que, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link

None in particular. I'm less concerned with their individual opinions than with the regard in which they're held. I don't understand why critics are so revered, basically.

― souldesqueeze, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.spikemagazine.com/reviews/lesterbangs.jpg

― strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:40 (seventeen years ago) link

they're not, really.

― gff, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:40 (seventeen years ago) link

i would suggest you try working for a daily or weekly newspaper. you'll quickly change your opinions about critics being "revered."

― strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:40 (seventeen years ago) link

by their colleagues much less the readership

― Matos W.K., Monday, 26 March 2007 20:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Why does everyone hate Klosterman?

souldesqueeze on Monday, March 26, 2007 3:33 PM (2 minutes ago)

Has Klosterman Gone Too Far?
Klosterman At It Again
Classic or Dud - Chuck Klosterman
Is Klosterman A Rockist?
[Removed Illegal Link]
Fargo Rock City by Chuck Klosterman
Killing Yourself to Live

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:41 (seventeen years ago) link

christgau is revered maybe by other writers and probably not very well known otherwise. chusid i am not familiar with. the only one who revers derogatis is (insert culinary proprieter)

― rps, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I only say that because I've noticed a general deference to their points of view as being somehow more worthy of evaluation than others'. Same with somebody like Roger Ebert. At least Gene Siskel seemed to have a sense of humor about his line of work.

― souldesqueeze, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't understand why critics are so revered, basically.

saying that here is like walking into a gay bar and asking "why would anybody wanna kiss another guy?"

― m coleman, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

the idea that "everyone" on ILM "does" anything is mindbending

― Matos W.K., Monday, 26 March 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

did wagemann get spellcheck?

― marmotwolof, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Part of why you're getting a snarky response to this thread is that critics are really not revered, and in fact there are approximately 300,000 people on the internet going around starting "clever" and "provocative" threads about how they're SUCH transparent dickwads, to the point where those threads get more predictable and irritating than any dumb thing most any critic can come up with to prompt them.

― nabisco, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I will say that I admire the hell out of David Fricke.

― souldesqueeze, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:43 (seventeen years ago) link

ebert once wrote a garfield review from the pov of garfield

― rps, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:43 (seventeen years ago) link

did wagemann get spellcheck?

oh snap!

― strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I only say that because I've noticed a general deference to their points of view as being somehow more worthy of evaluation than others'.

You will also notice that George Bush's point of view is more often discussed and evaluated than that of my Aunt Nina. This is not necessarily because George Bush's point of view is deemed better.

― nabisco, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Does this site feature a search function that isn't powered by Google?

souldesqueeze on Monday, 26 March 2007 20:34 (4 minutes ago)

"Direct ILX search" shows countless searches with "Christgau"

― curmudgeon, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Just to go totally off-topic for a second, are you familiar with Garfield Without Dialogue?

― souldesqueeze, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:44 (seventeen years ago) link

http://bokertov.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/sharon_head_in_hands.jpg

― deej, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Just to go totally off-topic for a second, are you familiar with Garfield Without Dialogue?

NO I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THIS BRAND NEW WHAT DO YOU CALL IT AGAIN "INTERNETS" OF WHICH YOU SPEAK PLEASE DO TELL US ALL ABOUT IT

― Matos W.K., Monday, 26 March 2007 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/character2.article.jpg

― gff, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

HEY GUYS CHECK OUT THIS HILARIOUS ROBERT CHRISTGAU BOTTLE OPENER

― ghost rider, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

colon p.

― souldesqueeze, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

omg

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I will say that I admire the hell out of David Fricke.

souldesqueeze on Monday, 26 March 2007 20:43 (3 minutes ago)

I admire the hell out of his teeth.

― Mr. Que, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:48 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.lizardfire.com/graphics_genIllus/Ozymandias_450.jpg

― bernard snowy, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:48 (seventeen years ago) link

JIM DEROGATIS VS NAS

― ghost rider, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:49 (seventeen years ago) link

CHUCK KLOSTERMAN HAS NEVER HAD SEX

― ghost rider, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:49 (seventeen years ago) link

CONTROVERSIAL CAT IS CONTROVERSIAL

― Mr. Que, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link

^^his next title

― m coleman, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link

oh many the lolz on this thread

― strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I love the "punch me in the face right now" quality of the thread title / original post. It's like something I would write. Except I wouldn't.

― Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:52 (seventeen years ago) link

hey remember when david fricke had that whole rant about cellphones in the wilco movie? that shit was fuckin OTM. the dude really knows about life!

― Mr. Que, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:54 (seventeen years ago) link

haha you watched a wilco movie

― strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Skipping 189 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

haha, I was actually just thinking, the only thing this dude could do at this point that would save face and make me empathize with his position would be to reveal that he's that guy who posted a thread here recently about how he would play records for his roommate and his roommate would tell him they sucked and he didn't want to listen to them and then would go out and buy the same records as soon as Pitchfork reviewed them

― bernard snowy, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 22:48 (seventeen years ago) link

(xpost)

― bernard snowy, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 22:49 (seventeen years ago) link

glazing lawn gnomes??

― m0stlyClean, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 23:15 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.gnomeland.co.uk/Heissner%20factory.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link

No, I honestly believe that anyone who carries the conviction that their criticism of a piece in whose creation they played absolutely no part is of any consequence at all is wholly delusional. Criticism exists as mere food for thought for the reader, nothing more. Society would not dissolve into a cultural morass without it.

Cynthia Ozick wrote an article in this month's issue of Harpers called "Literary Entrails: They boys in the alley, the disappearing readers, and the novel's ghostly twin" about the place of criticism in art. Reducing her argument to a few sentences, she argues that what gives culture (particularly literary culture) context is criticism. She is, of course, a writer who knows a couple things about criticism and literature. I think she'd probably disagree with your entire assumption.

― Mordechai Shinefield, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 00:34 (seventeen years ago) link

I honestly believe that anyone who carries the conviction that their criticism of a piece in whose creation they played absolutely no part is of any consequence at all is wholly delusional. Criticism exists as mere food for thought for the reader, nothing more.

I.e., food for thought is of no consequence.

I.e., thought is of no consequence.

I.e., if you really believed this, you'd have shot yourself in the face long ago.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 01:28 (seventeen years ago) link

syllogistic nabisco otm

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 01:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Although I guess that's not a syllogism.

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 01:50 (seventeen years ago) link

My mind hungers for the misguided opinions of others.

― M.V., Wednesday, 28 March 2007 02:13 (seventeen years ago) link

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/11/Medved_Michael2.jpg/200px-Medved_Michael2.jpg

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 02:32 (seventeen years ago) link

God Bless You, g®▲Ðұ.

― m0stlyClean, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 02:37 (seventeen years ago) link

five years pass...

I await your perspectives.

― buzza, Sunday, 23 December 2012 08:48 (eleven years ago) link

5 Years Pass...

― maura, Sunday, 23 December 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link

Meanwhile, I'm still thinking

― Rumba de Schmillsson (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 23 December 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link

I like Chusid, if only for highlighting worthy way-out-in-left-field artists and bands

― Lee626, Sunday, 23 December 2012 22:52 (eleven years ago) link

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